Hi everyone, had a thought that's been rattling around in my head for a few days and thought I'd see if anyone can shed some light on it for me. Because nitrous is illegal in road cars, I was wondering what would happen if someone was to use pure oxygen. I don't think there's a law saying you can't use oxygen. I think the reason nitrous is used is because it has more o2 atoms than the atmosphere, hence making a bigger bang in the cylinders, so what about using straight o2? Or is it more likely to turn the engine into a bomb? Any ideas folks??
Nitrous oxide alternative
Started by
_Kush_
, Apr 16 2010 10:03 AM
38 replies to this topic
#2
orangeLJ
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 10:10 AM
Im not sure on the laws, but im assuming they'd treat a cylinder of oxygen the same as they would N2O (cops wouldnt realistically be able to tell the difference and would book you all the same)
#3
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 10:44 AM
The O2 is highly unstable and will probably blow up before it gets into the chamber with catastrophic results.
The Nitrogen in N2O keeps the Oxygen stable, they seperate at high temps like those experienced in the combustion chamber, releasing the Oxygen for combustion.
The Nitrogen in N2O keeps the Oxygen stable, they seperate at high temps like those experienced in the combustion chamber, releasing the Oxygen for combustion.
#4
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 10:57 AM
Yeah I understand the volatility of the straight O2, but if it was mixed with something like argon then it might tame it a bit ( depending on the ratio ) or possibly setting it up so the O2 will only trickle or seep into the fuel/air mix in a low dose. Maybe I should just stop thinkin about it n get a supercharger like everyone else! 
#5
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 11:04 AM
Im not sure on the laws, but im assuming they'd treat a cylinder of oxygen the same as they would N2O (cops wouldnt realistically be able to tell the difference and would book you all the same)
I think you're right about that too. However, you'd probably have to take it to court to prove your innocence because most cops wouldn't have the common sense to crack the bottle and smell it. It's easier to just write the ticket.
#6
TerrA LX
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 11:48 AM
because most cops wouldn't have the common sense to crack the bottle and smell it.
Have you seriously considered for a second what you just said, expecting a perfect stranger to have a wiff of an unknown chemical? More so in their line of work? With no training?
#7
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 12:24 PM
Terra LX, yeah I see what you mean. Sorry if I offended anyone. What I would like to add though, I can't think of any reason why anyone would have a gas cylinder in their car, hooked up with hoses and soleniods to the intake with a toxic chemical gas running through them. All bottles by law need to be colour-coded to their specific gases, labels saying what it is with percentages of such gasses, cylinder is stamped with manufacturer details, dates and so forth. There is just so much information on a gas bottle, and for good reason
#8
ls2lxhatch
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 01:02 PM
NOS is fatal if inhaled in sufficient quantities.
It is my understanding that it is legal to have a NOS system on a vehicle as long as the bottle is only connected when the vehicle is off road.
It is my understanding that it is legal to have a NOS system on a vehicle as long as the bottle is only connected when the vehicle is off road.
Edited by ls2lxhatch, 16 April 2010 - 01:04 PM.
#9
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 01:25 PM
NOS is fatal if inhaled in sufficient quantities.
It is my understanding that it is legal to have a NOS system on a vehicle as long as the bottle is only connected when the vehicle is off road.
I wish! I just checked the Queensland transport vehicle modification website, and it says that " the fitting of nitrous oxide injection equipment is not permitted". That's the reason why I got this other crazy idea. P.S. Anything is fatal in sufficient quantities. Even oxygen..... It's true!
#10
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 01:31 PM
It can be done and it was used to some extent in WW2 aircraft. The amount of boost you can get from adding straight oxygen (plus extra fuel to maintain the fuel/oxygen ratio of course) is very small due to the increased combustion temps. With nitrous only a small portion of the power increase is due to its oxygen content; most of the benefit comes from its very high latent heat of vapourisation which produces a much higher charge density. In other words nitrous makes power by cramming in more working fluid (mostly air), while oxygen does it by increasing the combustion temperature. Obviously there are limits to what you can do with straight oxygen or oxygenated fuels.
#11
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 01:36 PM
No offence, just trying to be realistic.
#12
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 01:46 PM
Yeah I understand the volatility of the straight O2, but if it was mixed with something like argon then it might tame it a bit ( depending on the ratio ) or possibly setting it up so the O2 will only trickle or seep into the fuel/air mix in a low dose. Maybe I should just stop thinkin about it n get a supercharger like everyone else!
Mixing O2 with argon won't do anything mate. Argon is an inert gas (ie. ~100% chemically stable) so it will not mix on a molecular level with any other substance. That's why it's used in MIG welding, it forms a chemical shield between the weld and oxygen, so the weld doesn't instantly corrode as it would at the high temperatures welding occurs at.
Straight O2 also isn't used because oxygen doesn't become a liquid under pressure. So the more of the bottle you use, the greater the pressure drop inside the bottle. You'd only get 1 or 2 decent squirts out of a bottle before the pressure normalized to such a degree oxygen would no longer force itself out. NO2 does become a liquid under pressure, meaning you can get a hell of a lot more into a bottle of comparable size, and a negligible pressure drop until the bottle is almost empty.
So at the end of the day, SUPERCHARGE IT
#13
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 01:53 PM
Oldjohnno, that's the info I was after. Thanks. I find it interesting that they tried doing it in some warplanes.
Nalnoc, yeah f#ck it.... A blower it is! By the way, good info
Nalnoc, yeah f#ck it.... A blower it is! By the way, good info
#14
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 03:53 PM
In the sevenies at Katoomba a local nurse stole some NOS ,for a laugh ,a group of them were in a car having a party , until someone lit up a smoke , CARBOOM , I know a bit off topic !
#15
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 04:18 PM
In the sevenies at Katoomba a local nurse stole some NOS ,for a laugh ,a group of them were in a car having a party , until someone lit up a smoke , CARBOOM , I know a bit off topic !
I didnt think N2O was flammable at room temp?
#16
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 04:18 PM
"In the sevenies at Katoomba a local nurse stole some NOS ,for a laugh ,a group of them were in a car having a party , until someone lit up a smoke , CARBOOM , I know a bit off topic !"
Is that how Kaboomta got it's name?
Is that how Kaboomta got it's name?
Edited by rodomo, 16 April 2010 - 04:23 PM.
#17
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 06:32 PM
I had a quick look and only found this, it was in the local paper ,and the girl had facial burns after the event .
In the sevenies at Katoomba a local nurse stole some NOS ,for a laugh ,a group of them were in a car having a party , until someone lit up a smoke , CARBOOM , I know a bit off topic !
I didnt think N2O was flammable at room temp?
#18
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 06:52 PM
I decided to google " how to hide nitrous oxide" ( just for kicks, I'm not game enough to actually do it) and some of those yanks are super sneaky. I saw this awesome DIY setup, where they hide the lines underneath the intake manifold. Looked neat as. the only way you'd see them would be to unbolt the manifold.
the only way you'd see them would be to unbolt the manifold.
#19
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 06:57 PM
I didnt think N2O was flammable at room temp?
Non flammable at room temp.
#20
_greenmachine215_
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 06:58 PM
Why not convert the car to LPG/petrol But fill the tank with nos instead Instant hidden system, bust out the 90L Cylinder.... sweet as.
By the way Nitrous is only "illegal" if they find that the bottle is hooked up to the feed line, If its not connected its fine to have in. well in S.A It is.
Or you can go with the edelbrock 'SNEAKY PETE' Nitrous kit, i was thinking of this for my hatch just 2 cylinders tucked under the rear seat, and the solenoids run off a 9v battery.
Instant hidden system, bust out the 90L Cylinder.... sweet as.By the way Nitrous is only "illegal" if they find that the bottle is hooked up to the feed line, If its not connected its fine to have in. well in S.A It is.
Or you can go with the edelbrock 'SNEAKY PETE' Nitrous kit, i was thinking of this for my hatch just 2 cylinders tucked under the rear seat, and the solenoids run off a 9v battery.
#21
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 07:31 PM
I had a quick look and only found this, it was in the local paper ,and the girl had facial burns after the event .
In the sevenies at Katoomba a local nurse stole some NOS ,for a laugh ,a group of them were in a car having a party , until someone lit up a smoke , CARBOOM , I know a bit off topic !
I didnt think N2O was flammable at room temp?
Fair enough. I dont doubt it didnt happen.
The same doc that snippet above come from does however state that N2O is non flammable. Either way I wouldnt be sparking up a durry around it in a hurry.
Material Safety Data Sheet
#22
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 07:32 PM
You can not have any nitrous component in your car in QLD.
Technically you cant have a NOS kit in its original box packed up and in the boot while you drive around...
Sneaky Petes arnt much good, there only a dry shot.
Its not hard to hide a nitrous system.
Cheers.
Technically you cant have a NOS kit in its original box packed up and in the boot while you drive around...
Sneaky Petes arnt much good, there only a dry shot.
Its not hard to hide a nitrous system.
Cheers.
#23
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 07:43 PM
Hey bomber! Tell us what you think the best set-up would be. I'm getting interested in this stuff again. I don't mind a bit of strip practice every once in a while, and it would be good to know a few tricks about keeping things quiet when i'm not having fun at the drags. It would be too much of a pain in the arse installing/removing everything every fortnight. Come on everyone, let me know your ideas
#24
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 07:46 PM
Direct Port Hydrogen Injection........................................
#25
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 07:53 PM
Good setup?
Depends on your engine.
But a half decent wet shot is good enough for most cars, have the bottle and brackets in the boot easily removable, as there hard to hide, run the nitrous line inside the car under the carpet to the engine bay, hide the solenoids somewhere (use your imagination, in the heater box maybie?) and put foggers under the manifold, yay all hidden bar the bottle which you remove when your on the street, as your not actually gonna use it on the street are you?
Only problem with having foggers under the mani is its hard to change jets, ie hard to tune.
Personally i have nothing against breaking the law in the way of having the components installed, but i wont publicly say i would use a nos kit on the street, cough cough.
Biggest downfalls with nitrous is you have to run a separate fuel system for the fuel side otherwise your asking for problems, and the bottles are hell expensive to get filled up.
Im far from an expert, thats just my observations.
All going to plan i will be playing with a set up shortly
Cheers.
Depends on your engine.
But a half decent wet shot is good enough for most cars, have the bottle and brackets in the boot easily removable, as there hard to hide, run the nitrous line inside the car under the carpet to the engine bay, hide the solenoids somewhere (use your imagination, in the heater box maybie?) and put foggers under the manifold, yay all hidden bar the bottle which you remove when your on the street, as your not actually gonna use it on the street are you?
Only problem with having foggers under the mani is its hard to change jets, ie hard to tune.
Personally i have nothing against breaking the law in the way of having the components installed, but i wont publicly say i would use a nos kit on the street, cough cough.
Biggest downfalls with nitrous is you have to run a separate fuel system for the fuel side otherwise your asking for problems, and the bottles are hell expensive to get filled up.
Im far from an expert, thats just my observations.
All going to plan i will be playing with a set up shortly
Cheers.
Edited by Bomber Watson, 16 April 2010 - 07:55 PM.
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