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#1 _jabba_

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 05:10 PM

I've been having ongoing fisheye problems when i've been painting lately. I've been getting it when painting the celica and just then when i painted a few things for a mate, but my monaro didn't seem to have any problems. The celica was straight white, and my mates falcon is straight gloss black where the Monaro is clear over base.

After i noticed the fish eye appearing i added one drop of fisheye remover and that didn't seem to stop it at all.The paint shop said it could be moisture coming from the compressor. Today i made a T piece in the compressor line, then ran it uphill to the regulator. I then ran the hose straight up to the top of the shed, across the length of the shed (6m) with the hose on a slope towards the reg then down into a dual toilet roll filter i bought. From there i replaced the compressor hose with brand new stuff, then installed a disposable air water trap on the bottom of the gun. Needless to say i'm pretty sure its now not water getting in the paint!

I've read it could be environmental, like if i had a bottle of car polish sitting in the shed that could contaminate the air and cause the problem? I wipe the panels over with wax and grease remover, then wipe the residue off with a clean cloth, but no matter how much i seem to scrub these panels i still end up with the fisheye problem. The paint is going on very smooth, but this is just ruining the paint job :/. Any ideas?

Could a heavy coat cause this problem, i put the coats on fairly wet but it didnt run or sag. I feel that if i put them on any lighter it will just look like orange peel!

Ill post some pics soon!


Thanks
Damien

Edited by jabba, 19 June 2010 - 05:14 PM.


#2 _Viper_

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 05:26 PM

Ive had problems occasionally with em too and its really annoying... I think its got alot to do with how you apply and remove the wax and grease remover... you have to apply it quite wet and wipe it off while its still wet with a Dry CLEAN cloth.... if it dries before you wipe it off the contaminants just settle again and you wont remove them...

Im sure others will have better advice tho.

#3 TerrA LX

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 05:48 PM

As above, make sure you are using wax and grease remover correctly.

Any thing with oily of silicon substances can contaminate, the rag you use for wiping or spraying armorall type products around the time of spraying.
I think your shed would have to be pretty hot and humid for a closed bottle to contaminate the surface but in saying tat I had 4L acid in the shed and over time noticed things starting to corrode, removed the acid from the shed and problem solved.
Gun packing lubrication but rarely.
The air line been used in industrial applications with air tools?
Speaking of air tools, I used an air tool on a roof once and it fish eyed like crazy when I primed, I quickly washed the roof with thinners and started all over again.
Air tools that have been lubed will exhaust a very fine mist of oil everywhere.

Fish eyes are not caused by moisture, the water looks just like water bubbles or come thru later as humidity blisters.

Edited by TerrA LX, 19 June 2010 - 05:52 PM.


#4 _yldlj_

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 06:05 PM

by fisheye do you mean there is wax? if there is wax in the air no matter how many times you use wax and grease remover it will not solve the problem. it could be anything if your shed door is open and your misus is cleaning the house with mr sheen or anything like that and the house door is open it will flow into the paint. i have seen a car interior being cleaned 40m away from where we have been spraying and the panels have waxed up from it. if anything a heavy coat will cover the wax spots. if spraying in a shed clean it out wash everything down. i had this problem in my bros shed he is a mechanic and his shed is covered in oil and crc and shit like that ruined everything i painted and had to start again.

#5 _nial8r_

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 06:49 PM

BBQ's are killers for this, the sh*t off them floats for ever, my only sugestion would be to give the car a light chop then give it a good prepsol as described above using clean rags and try blowing another coat over it and see what happens Posted Image

#6 _jabba_

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 07:11 PM

As above, make sure you are using wax and grease remover correctly.

Any thing with oily of silicon substances can contaminate, the rag you use for wiping or spraying armorall type products around the time of spraying.
I think your shed would have to be pretty hot and humid for a closed bottle to contaminate the surface but in saying tat I had 4L acid in the shed and over time noticed things starting to corrode, removed the acid from the shed and problem solved.
Gun packing lubrication but rarely.
The air line been used in industrial applications with air tools?
Speaking of air tools, I used an air tool on a roof once and it fish eyed like crazy when I primed, I quickly washed the roof with thinners and started all over again.
Air tools that have been lubed will exhaust a very fine mist of oil everywhere.

Fish eyes are not caused by moisture, the water looks just like water bubbles or come thru later as humidity blisters.


I havent used any cleaning products in that shed for months, there was a bottle of engine oil sitting on the shelf near where i was painting but it had a lid on it. The shed is fairly cool at the moment, since its fairly mild weather. I used fresh clean rags, but maybe i'm not using enough wax n grease remover and its drying before i can wipe it off completely.
I replaced the air line after the last air filter incase the line had been contaminated from using air tools, but these panels havent had any air tools near them. I've never had any fish eye problems with primer, but maybe thats because its a lot thicker than top coat.

Yeah i figured, but there was potentially a water problem as well. After my compressor had been running for a long time using my sand blaster i noticed condensation coming out the end of the gun, i figured that might have been able to carry contaminants onto the paint and also cause humidity blisters.


by fisheye do you mean there is wax? if there is wax in the air no matter how many times you use wax and grease remover it will not solve the problem. it could be anything if your shed door is open and your misus is cleaning the house with mr sheen or anything like that and the house door is open it will flow into the paint. i have seen a car interior being cleaned 40m away from where we have been spraying and the panels have waxed up from it. if anything a heavy coat will cover the wax spots. if spraying in a shed clean it out wash everything down. i had this problem in my bros shed he is a mechanic and his shed is covered in oil and crc and shit like that ruined everything i painted and had to start again.



Yeah, i think its silicon/wax/oil. I'm not sure if ill be able to wash the shed down but i should be able to blow all the dust out with the air compressor. Ill head over to bunnings tomorrow and buy some drop sheets and ill hang them over all the walls etc. Maybe that will stop the contaminant. The weird thing is it's only really effecting things i paint in top coat, the monaro was painted in clear over base and the base coat went on perfect and the only problems with the clear was orange peel and a bit of dust and bugs. Maybe the clear isnt effected in the same way because its a lot thicker than the top coat?

Could it be possible that the air compressor is sucking up the contaminent from the other shed. I've painted in both sheds and had the same problem but the air compressor stays in the main one and i just run the lines out. Would the wax/silicon/oil make its way through all 4 filters i'm running?

My misus was lying on the lounge all day studying, damn i cant blame her :P.

#7 _jabba_

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 07:16 PM

BBQ's are killers for this, the sh*t off them floats for ever, my only sugestion would be to give the car a light chop then give it a good prepsol as described above using clean rags and try blowing another coat over it and see what happens Posted Image


Yep, looks like thats the plan for tomorrow. Lucky it was only two guards so far. Ill cut them back with 600grit wet and dry, then scrub the shit out of them with wax n grease remover and see how i go *shrug*. I can see a lot of swearing in my future! :Headbang2:

#8 _yldlj_

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 07:23 PM

it will stay in the air for a long time! basecoat shouldn't really get affected but the clear definatly will. all 2k products will. it's one of those things that just fuks everything up and once it's in the air it is hard to get rid of. i wouldn't think it will have anything to do with the compressor.grab something like a peice of metal that hasn't been in the shed and spray it outside and see what happens. then try with something that has sat in the shed

thats why we use spray booths :)

Edited by yldlj, 19 June 2010 - 07:24 PM.


#9 _jabba_

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 07:30 PM

Ill try that :).

A spray booth would be nice :).

Once photobucket stops being stupid ill upload some pics, turns out its really hard to photograph the problem :(.

#10 _yldlj_

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 07:34 PM

is it little dimples everywhere? or is the paint going on and there is little circles where the paint hasn't stuck?

#11 _jabba_

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 07:46 PM

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
It sure does look bad when the flash hits it!
Posted Image

is it little dimples everywhere? or is the paint going on and there is little circles where the paint hasn't stuck?



Its mainly tiny dimples everywhere, with the odd creator.

Posted Image

#12 _yldlj_

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 07:47 PM

wax wax and a fuk load more wax!!!!!!!!

#13 _jabba_

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 07:51 PM

:blink2:

I wonder where its coming from! It sucks because the paint went on soooooooo nice and flat, then 30 seconds later that appeared :/.

So is my best bet to clean the shed, then cover everything in plastic and try again? <edit> and clean the panel more...

Edited by jabba, 19 June 2010 - 07:53 PM.


#14 _yldlj_

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 07:58 PM

i would clean the shed spray the walls with wax and grease remover and hose everything down.you will also have to clean the cars in there as wax will stay everywhere! i would try spraying something outside first to see if the shed is the problem. last time i had that problem in my bros shed i painted the panels outside at my house i havn't painted at his since. i had to re-do the panels, i took all the paint off with 400 then etch primed them. it will probly sink back even worse by tomorrow!

#15 _jabba_

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 08:06 PM

Will the paint on there be ok to paint over once its sanded back, or will the wax continue to cause problems now its in there? By the sounds of it, no :(.

Thanks for all your help! Ill try spraying something outside and see what happens too. I'm sure ill have more pics tomorrow for you :cry:.

Edited by jabba, 19 June 2010 - 08:09 PM.


#16 _yldlj_

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 08:16 PM

with the paint i'm not 100% sure i didnt want to take any risks so thats why i took all the paint off and used etch. the thing is i don't think that 600 will flatten the panel enough because you have those little dimples and it looks like in the pics that the primer is underneath those little circles? the wax has made the paint not stick in those little circles so with that the paint will have to come off.

Edited by yldlj, 19 June 2010 - 08:18 PM.


#17 _jabba_

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 08:19 PM

Ok, ill hit it with something like 240 or 320 until i'm back to primer and then re-prime and go from there... Sucks eh.

#18 _yldlj_

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 08:25 PM

yeah it does suck good luck with it let us know how it goes. 320 will be fine enough. you only have to use an etch primer then just scuff over it with a superfine pad it shouldn't take to much time. use wax and grease remover as much as possible

#19 _jabba_

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 09:21 PM

I dont think i have any etch primer, just 2k primer filler...

#20 _jabba_

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 09:27 PM

I decided i'm going to play musical cars and move the monaro out of its house and give that area a good scrub. I can get in there and scrub and hose it down before hanging some drop sheets :). Should be a lot easier to eliminate problems. Ill let you know how i go tomorrow! I think cutting the guards back with 320 is a good job for my mate, muhaha :P.

#21 _yldlj_

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 02:48 AM

if you need etch just go to auto pro or something like that and buy it in a can. if you use 2k hifill it's kind of a waste

#22 TerrA LX

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 10:59 AM

I would think it is more on the panels giving you the problem, when i used the above mentioned air tool and had to wash off the primer with thinners the roof was good to go after a quick sand and re application of wax & grease remover etc.
I have continued to spray in there with no problems at all.
For your "booth" to be that contaminated that the walls are doing it you must know the source.
IMO primer, top coat or clear would all suffer the same, the thicker it is the more it will rear it's ugly head.

As above, try painting in another "quarantined" to make sure it is not the equipment or preparation.

Good luck, it must be sooo frustrating for you.

Edited by TerrA LX, 20 June 2010 - 11:01 AM.


#23 _gtr161s_

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 03:31 PM

I had a similar prob once too....after ruling out ever possibility I put it down to my clean rags possibly being contaiminated.

a quick scuff, re-wax and greased, new rags...problem solved

#24 _yldlj_

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 04:20 PM

thats the thing with wax it can be anywhere! and it makes a mess

#25 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 07:44 PM

And remember to ALWAYS prepsol everything BEFORE you start sanding.....

Cheers.




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