I know Im going to get bagged for this one but here goes anyway. One shop I worked at had a huge problem with fish eyeing. No matter how well everything was prepsoled. The old painter thers showed me the solution believe it or not use petrol to wax and grease don't know how but it works if prepsol doesn,t .
fish eye
Started by
_jabba_
, Jun 19 2010 05:10 PM
46 replies to this topic
#26
71xu1
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Posted 20 June 2010 - 08:39 PM
#27
TerrA LX
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Posted 20 June 2010 - 08:49 PM
Doesn't petrol contain wax???
#29
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Posted 21 June 2010 - 12:06 PM
And oil...
I don't know how but if you do have huge wax problems it works. I was very sceptical until I saw it with my own eyes. Ive used it since especially inside of door apertures but thats only after I have prepsoled and had problems still. My advice all other prep things first then as a last resort petrol as I can't get my head around how it works eg the oil and wax in petrol.
#30
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 21 June 2010 - 12:16 PM
Pretty easy to get something to work off the gun, but what does it look like in five years?
Cheers.
Cheers.
#31
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Posted 21 June 2010 - 12:46 PM
Bit hard to say but one time I did it was on my XB on the drivers side door aperture (acrylic) had the car for about 5yrs looked okay when I sold it. Like I said not something I would do everyday but when all else fails it works.Pretty easy to get something to work off the gun, but what does it look like in five years?
Cheers.
#32
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 21 June 2010 - 01:52 PM
Yeah mate no worries, just trying to get my head around it.
Hell, thats nothing, was talking to one old kicker who swore black and blue the best thing to thin acrylic with was petrol....I just shook my head and walked away haha.
Cheers.
Hell, thats nothing, was talking to one old kicker who swore black and blue the best thing to thin acrylic with was petrol....I just shook my head and walked away haha.
Cheers.
#33
_Quagmire_
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Posted 23 June 2010 - 08:16 PM
well even at a buck fifty a litre it's still cheaper than thinners!!
#34
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Posted 23 June 2010 - 10:24 PM
Maybe E85, that shit is pretty much thinners anyway eh?
#35
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Posted 04 July 2010 - 10:14 PM
Hi, Ive had a bit of experience painting and i can tell you that by the look of those fish eyes you have a problem with your compressor.
The compressor has lubricating oil in the sump on the pump and this can bypass the rings on the piston and be atomised by the compression forces.
This leads to a very fine mist traveling down your hose and out your gun with the paint.
The cure is to buy yourself a decent water and oil trap and get rid of the hose and replace with a new one also clean out your hose fittings and the handle on your gun.
In the paint shop we use screw compressors which almost eliminate the oil atomisation and always use a water and oil trap also a dryer if you can afford one.
Heres a little trick if you get the odd fish eye, if you have sprayed the surface and notice a fish eye or two appearing dont panic just complete the spray job with the required amount of coats and let the last coat tack off until its fairly tacky then get a tooth pick and dip it into your left over paint and dab a small amount right on the fish eye.
Dont panic about the blob of paint that is now on your job cause when its completely dry you can colour sand it flat and buff and wont see it. This only works for solid colours and clear coats in 2k or acrylic but dont try it with metalic base coat as it will leave a noticable colour change mark.
Hope this helps
The compressor has lubricating oil in the sump on the pump and this can bypass the rings on the piston and be atomised by the compression forces.
This leads to a very fine mist traveling down your hose and out your gun with the paint.
The cure is to buy yourself a decent water and oil trap and get rid of the hose and replace with a new one also clean out your hose fittings and the handle on your gun.
In the paint shop we use screw compressors which almost eliminate the oil atomisation and always use a water and oil trap also a dryer if you can afford one.
Heres a little trick if you get the odd fish eye, if you have sprayed the surface and notice a fish eye or two appearing dont panic just complete the spray job with the required amount of coats and let the last coat tack off until its fairly tacky then get a tooth pick and dip it into your left over paint and dab a small amount right on the fish eye.
Dont panic about the blob of paint that is now on your job cause when its completely dry you can colour sand it flat and buff and wont see it. This only works for solid colours and clear coats in 2k or acrylic but dont try it with metalic base coat as it will leave a noticable colour change mark.
Hope this helps
#36
_yldlj_
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Posted 05 July 2010 - 07:47 PM
Hi, Ive had a bit of experience painting and i can tell you that by the look of those fish eyes you have a problem with your compressor.
The compressor has lubricating oil in the sump on the pump and this can bypass the rings on the piston and be atomised by the compression forces.
This leads to a very fine mist traveling down your hose and out your gun with the paint.
The cure is to buy yourself a decent water and oil trap and get rid of the hose and replace with a new one also clean out your hose fittings and the handle on your gun.
In the paint shop we use screw compressors which almost eliminate the oil atomisation and always use a water and oil trap also a dryer if you can afford one.
Heres a little trick if you get the odd fish eye, if you have sprayed the surface and notice a fish eye or two appearing dont panic just complete the spray job with the required amount of coats and let the last coat tack off until its fairly tacky then get a tooth pick and dip it into your left over paint and dab a small amount right on the fish eye.
Dont panic about the blob of paint that is now on your job cause when its completely dry you can colour sand it flat and buff and wont see it. This only works for solid colours and clear coats in 2k or acrylic but dont try it with metalic base coat as it will leave a noticable colour change mark.
Hope this helps
this does work well thats what the painters do at my work but this is only effective if there are only a few wax spots. you couldn't go along your whole panel and do it. and in the pics the complete panel is covered.
#37
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Posted 05 July 2010 - 08:33 PM
I'm gonna weigh in on this one.........
If the obvious solution of your air supply setup and an adequate wax and grease procedure still isnt giving you satisfactory results then there is few other possible scenarios/solutions.
Try doing a Water Wipe procedure before you Wax and Grease. Use two rags the same way as you prepsol but use one damp with water and the other dry. Exact same technique as wax'n'grease. This will pick up any possible contaminants that wax and grease won't. After you have done this then go with your wax and grease procedure.
When you do Wax'n'Grease always make sure you don't let the solvent air dry on the panel, Wax'n'Grease remover works by floating contaminants up off the surface and then your dry cloth is what removes them.
Now this is what I think your real problem is and some folks will think I'm nuts.........
I will bet it's your technique, now here me out because I've seen it happen and still see it happen day in day out by experienced painters.
As you've noticed it's occurring when your spraying solid colours and your really going for a nice finish. There is nothing wrong with your gun technique but there is a step you should be taking to avoid this issue.
After you've cleaned down your job, tack ragged etc and are ready to spray.
Spray a light fast "Tack" coat over your panel, let it set-up a little but not the usual flash off time and then hit it again with your usual wet coat. Let it flash off properly and then apply your 2nd coat. Your "fisheye" problem shouldn't occur and you will have your nice finish you've been chasing.
And to prove I'm not making it up here's proof of this technique......Not one bit of seperation (fisheye) and all off the gun no buffing, done for a very fussy customer.
If the obvious solution of your air supply setup and an adequate wax and grease procedure still isnt giving you satisfactory results then there is few other possible scenarios/solutions.
Try doing a Water Wipe procedure before you Wax and Grease. Use two rags the same way as you prepsol but use one damp with water and the other dry. Exact same technique as wax'n'grease. This will pick up any possible contaminants that wax and grease won't. After you have done this then go with your wax and grease procedure.
When you do Wax'n'Grease always make sure you don't let the solvent air dry on the panel, Wax'n'Grease remover works by floating contaminants up off the surface and then your dry cloth is what removes them.
Now this is what I think your real problem is and some folks will think I'm nuts.........
I will bet it's your technique, now here me out because I've seen it happen and still see it happen day in day out by experienced painters.
As you've noticed it's occurring when your spraying solid colours and your really going for a nice finish. There is nothing wrong with your gun technique but there is a step you should be taking to avoid this issue.
After you've cleaned down your job, tack ragged etc and are ready to spray.
Spray a light fast "Tack" coat over your panel, let it set-up a little but not the usual flash off time and then hit it again with your usual wet coat. Let it flash off properly and then apply your 2nd coat. Your "fisheye" problem shouldn't occur and you will have your nice finish you've been chasing.
And to prove I'm not making it up here's proof of this technique......Not one bit of seperation (fisheye) and all off the gun no buffing, done for a very fussy customer.
#38
_yldlj_
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Posted 05 July 2010 - 08:45 PM
nice!!!!! thats a karmen ghia right?
Edited by yldlj, 05 July 2010 - 08:48 PM.
#39
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Posted 05 July 2010 - 08:49 PM
nice!!!!! thats a karmen ghia right?
Yes indeed, I've never really been a Volks guy but this car opened my eyes with its colour/trim combo
#40
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Posted 05 July 2010 - 08:52 PM
looks like the same colour as this combi van i did. this is my mates combi he also owns a karmen ghia!
#41
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Posted 05 July 2010 - 09:10 PM
Nice work on the Kombi, I've got a self imposed ban on working on Kombi's....One bit me in a bad way while I was doing some rust in the front step years ago and every time I look in the mirror at the scar left by the 7in disc grinder I remind myself to alway walk away from them! mongrel buses!!
#42
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Posted 05 July 2010 - 09:19 PM
oh shit!!!!! i hope i never have to do another one again!!!!!!!
#43
slar
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Posted 08 July 2010 - 04:17 PM
Yeh thats pretty true PETE, if you lay down a light tack coat that usually helps heaps as the tacky paint under your first full coat holds the surface tension of the paint in place eliminating the pull away effect that contaminaton causes.
I only suggested the oil effect might be a problem because of the uniformity of the fisheyes, seems to be heaps of them and thats alittle unusual even if your apply a heavy coat but hey we didnt do the job so who really knows what actually happened.
I only suggested the oil effect might be a problem because of the uniformity of the fisheyes, seems to be heaps of them and thats alittle unusual even if your apply a heavy coat but hey we didnt do the job so who really knows what actually happened.
#44
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Posted 18 July 2010 - 06:32 PM
One thing people don't check is the spray gun. Some of the lower end (cheap) guns when they are put together they use a small amount of silicon to seal joints. My father and I found out the hard way.
My father went to spray his engine bay only to have heaps of fish-eyes, he did it again and again but to no avail. They came up worse every time. We checked everything as mentioned on this thread but nothing seemed to help. So he then decided to check the gun out and stripped it right down. Well he was amazed when he found a tiny amount of silicon around the thread of the bush that the pot screws into ( btw it's a gravity fed gun). Once he removed all the silicon and repainted the engine bay he had no fish-eyes.
So be sure you check out the guns even if they are cheap or high end ones.
This gun has since sprayed 2 other cars now and we haven't had any problems.
My father went to spray his engine bay only to have heaps of fish-eyes, he did it again and again but to no avail. They came up worse every time. We checked everything as mentioned on this thread but nothing seemed to help. So he then decided to check the gun out and stripped it right down. Well he was amazed when he found a tiny amount of silicon around the thread of the bush that the pot screws into ( btw it's a gravity fed gun). Once he removed all the silicon and repainted the engine bay he had no fish-eyes.
So be sure you check out the guns even if they are cheap or high end ones.
This gun has since sprayed 2 other cars now and we haven't had any problems.
#45
_big chris_
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Posted 22 July 2010 - 05:01 PM
From the pics looks like is a pattern over the panel,
my guess is couyld be coming from your gun,
Possible solutions,
Lik 08TOR suggested,
strip you spray gun and clean it all,
with clean thinners in a clean container like a new mixing cup,
and try using a diferent air line from your filters to the gun.
What are you using to clean your gun,
if you are using gunwash, it can be a source of contamination.
Need to flush the gun with thinners after using gun wash.
Cheers
Chris.
my guess is couyld be coming from your gun,
Possible solutions,
Lik 08TOR suggested,
strip you spray gun and clean it all,
with clean thinners in a clean container like a new mixing cup,
and try using a diferent air line from your filters to the gun.
What are you using to clean your gun,
if you are using gunwash, it can be a source of contamination.
Need to flush the gun with thinners after using gun wash.
Cheers
Chris.
#46
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 22 July 2010 - 05:41 PM
As general practice i run a small amount of the particular reducer/thinners for the paint im going to spray before i put the paint in.
Doesnt hurt.
Cheers.
Doesnt hurt.
Cheers.
#47
_jabba_
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Posted 28 July 2010 - 09:13 PM
Thanks for all the info guys, ill try and keep it in mind.
I've sent the car home until the weather warms up, i believe some of the problem lies in the weather being so cold. When i painted the monaro i had nice warm weather, 25-30degree's, and i when i painted those guards i had maybe 15degree's. My mate wanted to try and paint it regardless, even tho initially i said it was probably too cold.
I tried doing a tack coat first then a wet coat and after a few minutes the fish eyes and those little pimples appeared, but I think the problem is the weather is too cold and the paint is taking too long to flash off (my theory is its curing very slowly and the paint drying on top and trapping the solvents that then bubble up through the paint causing those pimples).
As for oil/water traps i have one T piece about 5meters away from the compressor, then a hose runs up hill to the oil/water trap 8m away from the compressor, then the hose runs uphill for 6m into a twin toilet roll filter then through 20m of new hose back to the spray area then through a disposable filter on the end of the gun. I always run some fresh thinners that ill be using through the gun before filling it with paint to ensure its clean. Ill have to try and wash the panel down with water like described above before the wax 'n grease.
If the air compressor is contaminating the air with oil, would my water/oil traps stop it all (especially the toilet roll one?)
I've sent the car home until the weather warms up, i believe some of the problem lies in the weather being so cold. When i painted the monaro i had nice warm weather, 25-30degree's, and i when i painted those guards i had maybe 15degree's. My mate wanted to try and paint it regardless, even tho initially i said it was probably too cold.
I tried doing a tack coat first then a wet coat and after a few minutes the fish eyes and those little pimples appeared, but I think the problem is the weather is too cold and the paint is taking too long to flash off (my theory is its curing very slowly and the paint drying on top and trapping the solvents that then bubble up through the paint causing those pimples).
As for oil/water traps i have one T piece about 5meters away from the compressor, then a hose runs up hill to the oil/water trap 8m away from the compressor, then the hose runs uphill for 6m into a twin toilet roll filter then through 20m of new hose back to the spray area then through a disposable filter on the end of the gun. I always run some fresh thinners that ill be using through the gun before filling it with paint to ensure its clean. Ill have to try and wash the panel down with water like described above before the wax 'n grease.
If the air compressor is contaminating the air with oil, would my water/oil traps stop it all (especially the toilet roll one?)
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