Hi All
I'm going to attempt to put an intake manifold on my 253 a job I have never done before, but am a little unsure in what sealants or glues to use.
I thought it only needed some silicone in the four corners where the gaskets meet with the front and back rubber seals is this correct?
When I took the intake of it had lots of black rubber type silicone around it, is this needed as well?
I know it is a simple job for most of you guys but I've never done it so a step by step process on how to do it properly would be great.
Thanks in advance
Nick
Intake gaskets
Started by
_lostinspace_
, Aug 24 2010 09:27 PM
35 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 24 August 2010 - 10:06 PM
What intake gaskets are you using? IMO glue the cork gaskets down each end of the block (small bead of gasket grade silicone on top when you set the manifold down). Depending on what gaskets you use I would stay away from silicon near the intake, use either nothing or maybe some three bond and a thin smear of silicon around the water jackets if they are corroded. Ensure you torque them to spec from the inside out. You can borrow my holden book if you wish.
#3
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 24 August 2010 - 10:20 PM
Yeah, piss those cork end gaskets off, they tend to hold the manifold up.
Get some either blue or dark grey heat resistant silicon (I think it says Oxygen Sensor safe or some bullshit, but we don't have them, so who cares). First on your inlet manifold gaskets, put a very thin smeer (almost transparent) around the front and back holes, both sides, to seal the water jackets. You can use a couple of broken drill bits to locate it while you fart around dropping the manifold on later. For the front and back, put a good thick bead of silicon back and front. Let it go tacky for a few minutes. Drop the manifold on, and tighten working radially from the centre bolts around in a circle to the water jacket bolts (check the manual for diagram). The silicon should bulge out a bit when you drop the manifold on. Don't touch it though, or you will stuff the seal, it is as it turns out. Currently there is an air-bubble in mine from last time .... grrrr, but don't touch.
Presto. I have to do Yella tomorrow night, cause she's sucking in oil from the crank when off boost (I hope that is the problem)!!
When you put the bolts in the manifold, put some lock-tite on the bolts, and some anti-sieze under the bolt head. The suckers have a habit of working loose, which is why I think I have the leak!!! Ideally, start the motor, let it heat up, and retighten the bolts while hot.
^ Oh this assumes you know that you have to put your engine onto zero timing mark for the crank, and zero the dizzy before pulling it out and also removing the carbie, although a little 253 'bird scarer' two barrel may not be a prob staying on the manifold.
Get some either blue or dark grey heat resistant silicon (I think it says Oxygen Sensor safe or some bullshit, but we don't have them, so who cares). First on your inlet manifold gaskets, put a very thin smeer (almost transparent) around the front and back holes, both sides, to seal the water jackets. You can use a couple of broken drill bits to locate it while you fart around dropping the manifold on later. For the front and back, put a good thick bead of silicon back and front. Let it go tacky for a few minutes. Drop the manifold on, and tighten working radially from the centre bolts around in a circle to the water jacket bolts (check the manual for diagram). The silicon should bulge out a bit when you drop the manifold on. Don't touch it though, or you will stuff the seal, it is as it turns out. Currently there is an air-bubble in mine from last time .... grrrr, but don't touch.
Presto. I have to do Yella tomorrow night, cause she's sucking in oil from the crank when off boost (I hope that is the problem)!!
When you put the bolts in the manifold, put some lock-tite on the bolts, and some anti-sieze under the bolt head. The suckers have a habit of working loose, which is why I think I have the leak!!! Ideally, start the motor, let it heat up, and retighten the bolts while hot.
^ Oh this assumes you know that you have to put your engine onto zero timing mark for the crank, and zero the dizzy before pulling it out and also removing the carbie, although a little 253 'bird scarer' two barrel may not be a prob staying on the manifold.
Edited by Yella SLuR, 24 August 2010 - 10:26 PM.
#4
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Posted 24 August 2010 - 10:27 PM
Not sure what kind of gaskets they are I will have a look tomorrow I bought them months ago,
by memory they look like the type you use on exhaust and the end seals are rubber.
by memory they look like the type you use on exhaust and the end seals are rubber.
#5
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Posted 24 August 2010 - 10:31 PM
Rubber/cork either will do.
Have a look if they come with fitting instructions, some gasket kits come with instructions and it is worth following them.
Have a look if they come with fitting instructions, some gasket kits come with instructions and it is worth following them.
#6
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 24 August 2010 - 10:32 PM
Oh, manifold bolts don't take a whole heap of torque either, only about 20-25 lb.ft. according to Manwell.
Rubber or cork, chuck those ones in the bit, they's gonna cause you problems.
Rubber or cork, chuck those ones in the bit, they's gonna cause you problems.
Edited by Yella SLuR, 24 August 2010 - 10:33 PM.
#7
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Posted 24 August 2010 - 10:34 PM
When the intake mani goes back on, do a trial fit first without the gaskets. It will give you an idea of what is involved when the gaskets are fitted.
Remember.... when the intake mani is fitted, you ideally want to be placing it on square & central. Resist any temptation to slide in that last little bit! That's when that rear gasket slips & causes leaks.
Remember.... when the intake mani is fitted, you ideally want to be placing it on square & central. Resist any temptation to slide in that last little bit! That's when that rear gasket slips & causes leaks.
#8
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Posted 24 August 2010 - 10:40 PM
I went from cork to silicon over the years and found that without the silicon being compressed it will tend to weep thats why I switched back to using end gaskets..
#9
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Posted 24 August 2010 - 10:49 PM
Do I use the rubber seals on the front and back or just silicone?
#10
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Posted 24 August 2010 - 11:02 PM
I would glue the rubbers to the block and a thin bead of silicon on top of them.
#11
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Posted 24 August 2010 - 11:17 PM
i would use the proper GM gasket cement/sealer , comes in a little tin, coat the gaskets both sides and use silicone (rtv red) instead of the cork caskets front and rear, the gm part number is 3835215 not cheap (but last for ever), i use it on every gasket and dip the manifold bolts near the water jackets in it to..
#12
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Posted 24 August 2010 - 11:25 PM
Oh yeah, don't forget to seal the bolts that enter the water jackets.
#13
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Posted 25 August 2010 - 12:21 AM
Yep, trial fit it. It comes down to what has been done to the block deck IMHO.
If it has been decked to the max, I would delete gaskets and use 3 Bond.
Silicone sealants will "help" the gasket slip out so choose your method of securing.
If using a gasket, and the engine is pretty much stock, I would use contact adhesive to stick the seal to the block and manifold to avoid the "squishing out".
If it has been decked to the max, I would delete gaskets and use 3 Bond.
Silicone sealants will "help" the gasket slip out so choose your method of securing.
If using a gasket, and the engine is pretty much stock, I would use contact adhesive to stick the seal to the block and manifold to avoid the "squishing out".
#14
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Posted 25 August 2010 - 11:25 AM
Aviation Form-a-gasket is what i use.
It comes in a little plastic bottle with a brush applicator.
Apply to front & rear of block.... fit gaskets....apply to top of gaskets, with a little extra in the 4 corners.... fit manifold.
There are probably 100 products on the market which will do the job. Everybody will have an opinion on which is best, depending on their experiences. There is no 'one' difinitive product.
However.... i would avoid using contact cement.
It comes in a little plastic bottle with a brush applicator.
Apply to front & rear of block.... fit gaskets....apply to top of gaskets, with a little extra in the 4 corners.... fit manifold.
There are probably 100 products on the market which will do the job. Everybody will have an opinion on which is best, depending on their experiences. There is no 'one' difinitive product.
However.... i would avoid using contact cement.
#15
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Posted 25 August 2010 - 12:27 PM
I always use the cork front gaskets and seal them in place with ultra blue as well as around the water jackets. I have done dozens of holden V8 manifolfd and never once had one leak doing it this way either internally or externally! Hope this helps.
#16
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Posted 25 August 2010 - 02:16 PM
I use permatex, they do all the Holden sealer's and cement, disregard Holden's part number and just look for the class number example no.3, no.4 etc.
#17
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Posted 25 August 2010 - 03:04 PM
I would use contact adhesive to stick the seal to the block and manifold to avoid the "squishing out".
You don't mean type 4 or no.4 gasket cement do you, this is good stuff recommended by Holdens to secure the gasket.
#18
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Posted 25 August 2010 - 04:11 PM
No. I mean an adhesive that is gunna stick the bugger in there and not have it squishing and squirming while you fit the manifold and tighten the bolts.
#19
_Brad1979UC_
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Posted 25 August 2010 - 05:11 PM
If you get the ACL gaskets, they have like a head gasket style rubber bead and I put that face down on the head, then I rub a light smear of sealastic around the four water jackets, and also a VERY VERY light run with my finger around the gasket of each intake port, I'ts very light, it's probably pointless, but havn't had a problem. I use the cork ends, but use sealant at the corners where they join to the main gaskets and a small amount ontop of the cork. Also then use GM thread sealant (the good stuff haha) on the 8 bolts around the water jacket ports. And torque them all in sequence.
Oh of course, use fresh razor blades and get the surfaces mint before you start, give yourself the best chance of it all sealing up before you open the gasket packet.
Oh of course, use fresh razor blades and get the surfaces mint before you start, give yourself the best chance of it all sealing up before you open the gasket packet.
Edited by Brad1979UC, 25 August 2010 - 05:12 PM.
#20
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Posted 25 August 2010 - 10:55 PM
Aviation Form-a-gasket is what i use.
It comes in a little plastic bottle with a brush applicator.
Apply to front & rear of block.... fit gaskets....apply to top of gaskets, with a little extra in the 4 corners.... fit manifold.
There are probably 100 products on the market which will do the job. Everybody will have an opinion on which is best, depending on their experiences. There is no 'one' difinitive product.
However.... i would avoid using contact cement.
that's some gooooood squishy!!!!!
i mean shiwwwet
i use this stuff on my carby rebuilds
permetex is still good but and is my second choice
#21
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Posted 26 August 2010 - 02:42 AM
OK, I have tried the cork. I'll see how it goes. They seemed to have moved a little, but I think they are in there enough.
#22
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Posted 26 August 2010 - 03:00 PM
OK, I have tried the cork. I'll see how it goes. They seemed to have moved a little, but I think they are in there enough.
Did you cement them to the block?
It is ok for them to mushroom a little.
#23
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Posted 26 August 2010 - 05:53 PM
They come with glue on these days, just peal the back of and stick them on. I cleaned all the oil off the surfaces to start with.
OK, I have tried the cork. I'll see how it goes. They seemed to have moved a little, but I think they are in there enough.
Did you cement them to the block?
It is ok for them to mushroom a little.
I have some pics I might post up later (sorta on a dealine to get some stuff done).
Edited by Yella SLuR, 26 August 2010 - 05:55 PM.
#24
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Posted 26 August 2010 - 09:35 PM
OK after reading all the advice everyone has given me I have decided to do it this way.
1 First I will clean the surface from crap and grease
2 Trial fit manifold
3 Stick front and rear seals to block (the ones I have are cork the peel and stick type)
4 Put gaskets on heads with some silicon around water jackets (both sides of gaskets)
5 Run a thin layer of silicon on top of cork gaskets and some where the gaskets meet
( I will use Ultra blue cause I'm familiar with it I used it on the diff and it has not leaked yet but saying that the car has not been driven )
6 Put lock tight on threads and anti freeze under heads of bolts
7 Seal the bolts with silicon around water jackets
8 Drop in manifold square and tighten in sequence to 20/25 lb/ft (I will check the sequence and torque setting before I do this part)
What do you Guy thing is this OK ?
1 First I will clean the surface from crap and grease
2 Trial fit manifold
3 Stick front and rear seals to block (the ones I have are cork the peel and stick type)
4 Put gaskets on heads with some silicon around water jackets (both sides of gaskets)
5 Run a thin layer of silicon on top of cork gaskets and some where the gaskets meet
( I will use Ultra blue cause I'm familiar with it I used it on the diff and it has not leaked yet but saying that the car has not been driven )
6 Put lock tight on threads and anti freeze under heads of bolts
7 Seal the bolts with silicon around water jackets
8 Drop in manifold square and tighten in sequence to 20/25 lb/ft (I will check the sequence and torque setting before I do this part)
What do you Guy thing is this OK ?
#25
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Posted 26 August 2010 - 10:07 PM
5 Run a thin layer of silicon on top of cork gaskets and some where the gaskets meet
( I will use Ultra blue cause I'm familiar with it I used it on the diff and it has not leaked yet but saying that the car has not been driven )
Don't forget to run some at the sides where the block/heads/manifold meet as there can be a gap here.
6 Put lock tight on threads and anti freeze under heads of bolts
You mean anti seize, do not lock tight the bolts in the water jackets, infact I would not use it at all, just re torque it every now and again, it is alloy and will expand at different rated than iron, compressing the inlet gasket some.
7 Seal the bolts with silicon around water jackets
I would use number 3 gasket goo but others may have a different alternative.
Remember to use silicone sparingly you don't want it holding up or squeezing out into the motor somewhere.
Use thinners to clean the surfaces prior to gasket installation.
3 Stick front and rear seals to block (the ones I have are cork the peel and stick type)
I would still cement these, maybe overkill but I hate oil leaks.
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