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Tranny Cooler-Trimatic

Started by _lxtorrie_ , May 01 2006 10:11 AM

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18 replies to this topic

#1 _lxtorrie_

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 10:11 AM

Hey all,
Has been a while since I have been on these forums. For some reason I cannot access this site from home aymore. :cry:

But anyways, I am waiting for the arrival of my new trimatic (stage 2 shift kit, custom valve body, v8 clutch packs & internals, billet servo, etc) to go with my megashifter and have purchased a tranny cooler out of a commonwhore from the wreckers. Its a small alloy cooler thats a little larger than my hands put together- it was only $20 and figure they do the job, even tho u 'can' buy bigger, i think this size is fine.

So....now I have to install it.
Can someone please tell me which way does the fluid flow through the trimatic, as in, which way does the fluid flow to the radiator? This is because I am thinking about going Tranny->Radiator->Cooler->Tranny.
Therefore I dont want to install the lines arse about and go tranny->cooler->radiator->tranny as the cooling will not be as efficient.

Cheers

LXTORRIE

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#2 _MRNOS_

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 10:26 AM

So you're getting a new gearbox and you want to put a 2nd hand $20 cooler on it? What size convertor are you using, if you want your gearbox to last get the biggest you can get, Derale make some of the best 1's on the market buy their biggest 1 they make about $110 from memory, its either 100 bucks now or fix your overheating gearbox down the track, many autos die from excess heat! And just run it with the cooler, dont run it through the radiator

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#3 _lxtorrie_

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 10:58 AM

Hey,
Thanks for the reply. I was under the impression that a tranny does need to run a little 'hot', and that too much cooling can be just as bad as not enough. Hence why they used poxy radiator coolers on the old holdens, but mebbe im wrong.

I also figured an alloy tranny cooler from a 2000 model car would have been sufficient, and cool a whole heap more than the copper radiator style cooler, as the alloy style is far more efficient, but after reading your post I might have a look into something else.

I will have a look at larger coolers 2day, but I have an issue of space as there is not that much room left in the engine bay with sufficient air flow for a massive tranny cooler. I have EFI fitted, a 3 core cross flow radiator that takes up the whole front end, & not to mention the airbox crammed up the front also. Already have to run a set of thermo's due to not enough room between engine and radiator. :<_<:

Cheers

Edited by lxtorrie, 01 May 2006 - 11:12 AM.

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#4 _MRNOS_

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 11:02 AM

Standard coolers are ok for standard cars, if your gearbox is modified, bigger stall etc and its getn pushed hard, racing etc you'll get alot of heat buildup which will ruin your clutches.

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#5 _TORANR AMORE_

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 11:07 AM

agree
Stall converters cause heat, so if you have one, you'll need the tranny cooler. A secondhand one might be ok as long as you flush it. Also if your transmission is new, you should put a transmission fluid filter on the return line from the cooler to keep your transmission healthy, you can buy these for less than $50 and they are reccomended regardless.

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#6 _lxtorrie_

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 11:14 AM

Already have tranny oil filter

Still need to know which way the fluid flows tho...so I know where to put the filter.

Thanks
LXTORRIE

Edited by lxtorrie, 01 May 2006 - 11:17 AM.

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#7 _MRNOS_

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 11:15 AM

derale coolers flow in both directions

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#8 _Lostit_

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 07:04 PM

Cooler the oil the better it is.. Vicosity is the key word here.

The bigger the cooler the better..

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#9 _TORANR AMORE_

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 07:57 PM

Well the way I worked mine out, with my TH400, is I just didn't connect the trannie fliud lines to the cooler, I just pointed them forward towards a brick wall and started the engine (make sure you've got plently of tranny fluid in the auto before you do this). DO NOT REV THE ENGINE. while the engine is running you'll only one line pissing out fluid and thus the direction solved.
If you do it this way, then after turning the engione off connect that line to the cooler and with the other end open (with a hose pointing away from the car), pour more fluid into the auto from the top via the dip stick hole and then start the engine again and give it a few revs. This is the backyard way of flushing the cooler of any dirt or crap.
Then connect the filter to the short hose that was open, this will be the return line and connected.
Use 2 clamps for each connection. It will be under high pressure. You don't want fluid pissing out as it will eat your paint and the car will be very upset.

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#10 FastEHHolden

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 11:51 PM

the cooler the oil the better is so not true....these things have temp they are designed to run at...noticed how crap they are first thing in the morning?

I'm all for you additional cooler mounted in the return line..after all you are not driving it in the mundane fashion it was designed for.

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#11 _devilsadvocate_

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 11:15 AM

Sorry dont know which end of the tranny is the inlet and outlet for the fluid, my "guess" is the outlet is at the torque convertor end on the trimatic. The method ^ would work............(possibly any trans place could tell you for sure) Another way to test is by measuring the temps on the lines on either sides of the cooler, using a infrared sensor would get quick and accurate enough readings if the difference isnt obvious to the touch. (would have done this myself ,but my auto UC's arent at hand atm)
Re using the radiator cooler and auxilary cooler. Not sure if this is a good idea, there may be two much restriction which could slow down the flow of coolant and get less cooling. Possibly suggest that it would be better to connect them in parallel.
Re

Therefore I dont want to install the lines arse about and go tranny->cooler->radiator->tranny as the cooling will not be as efficient.

Why you have come to the conclusion? It may be correct, figuring that the radiator, possibly at 90C+ at the bottom when tranny cooling is critical will be better served to remove heat from the much hotter fluid as it first exits etc, than trying to remove heat from cooler fluid that has already gone through the cooler...however, there might be other things to consider there.
I have a lot of "not sures" here. Suggest that you do contact several tranny places and get their reccommendations. One has to weigh up, whether they are just passing on current/past industry practice that may be flawed or have actually done tests on stuff they have fitted and measured tempss of the fluid etc.
Fast EH has a good pt, the tranny fluid does need to get up to temp, AFAIK, no system of thermostats are fitted to tranny cooler systems. Perhaps fit a tranny temp sensor and gauge and use a blind during winter to block of part of the cooler to get the fluid up to temp

Edited by devilsadvocate, 02 May 2006 - 11:20 AM.

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#12 FastEHHolden

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 12:25 PM

The only problem I can see with going in parallel is that if one cooler is of a different restriction to the other then most of the flow will go thru that one...but if you put it how you said...box...radiator..cooler..box then that way will remove the most heat as the radiator did its bit first....then the auxillary cooler has a crack at it..I firmly beleive you need to keep the radiator in the circuit to allow it to warm up quicker.

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#13 _lxtorrie_

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 12:45 PM

Thanks for all the replys. As FastEHHolden mentioned, i wanted to run to radiator then cooler as I also felt as this would be the most efficient. As for restrictions, I dont see that this would be a big problem if I use the same line size throught the whole setup. The cooler I picked up from the wreckers has nothing wrong with it, it doesnt appear to have any blockages or bent fins. Also holds fluid fine.

I will see how my new tranny cooler goes with filter, and check the fluid to see if it has changed colour.
If anything I may put another cooler in if I feel that 1 is not cooling enough.
I looked on www.vpw.com.au and some of the B&M, etc coolers they have available are much smaller in size than the one I have.

Cheers
LXTORRIE

Edited by lxtorrie, 02 May 2006 - 12:46 PM.

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#14 _devilsadvocate_

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 01:19 PM

I firmly beleive you need to keep the radiator in the circuit to allow it to warm up quicker.

Don't see how that would be the case fastEH, the temp at the bottom of the rad is going to be at ambient til the the engine thermostat opens and in cold conditions(cruising at 60kmh at 10C) the temp at the bottom of the rad wouldn't exceed 40C in most setups. The radiator would still be removing heat from the fluid in all conditions.
Point taken re not equal/optimum flow in parallel, however, but this could be adjusted(if a problem) by restricting the inlets on one of the devices.
In terms of optimum cooling having two devices in parallel is much more effective, and would be the best way to optimise using the radiator cooler if absolutely necessary. Of the opinion however, that if you fit an auxilary cooler, to just go with one big enough to to do the job, and not have to concern oneselves with the rad/trans cooler at all, by the time you buy the extra connecting fittings, it will probably cost just as much as the extra sized cooler.

Edited by devilsadvocate, 02 May 2006 - 01:33 PM.

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#15 makka

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 02:56 PM

never and I mean NEVER run the fluid through the pipe in the radiator. I have seen autos destroyed because this line in the rad has corroded or fractured allowing fluid to escape and water into your tranny.

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#16 _Torana482HP_

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 07:16 PM

The reason for running through your radiator first is to get the tranny up to operating temperature a bit quicker, although if your using the tranny in a performance situation and especially burn outs, the radiator will make the tranny overheat quicker and if the tranny starts overheating - it will transfer the heat to your engine coolant and cook your engine.

i suggest just putting up with a sluggish tranny when you first start your car and install the tranny cooler in front of your radiator and only run the fluid through the tranny cooler.

The ideal operating temperature for auto fluid is between 79*C - 107*C. Anything other than light duty use will raise fluid temperature beyond this.
A commonly used statistic is that every 11*C rise in fluid temperature above the ideal operating temperature reduces fluid and transmission life by half.
When auto fluid reaches 121*C, varnish begins to form - additives are literally cooked out of the fluid.
As fluid temperature reaches to about 135*C, polyacrylate seals begin to harden. Consequently, they lose their elasticity, and leaks - internal and external - occur.
And at about 149*C, fluid can degenerate to the point where clutches slip. This, in turn, generates additional heat that breaks down the fluid further, resulting in massive transmission failure.

I wouldnt risk overheating your tranny.

just curious, were the biggest B&M coolers bigger than yours, as thats what i was gonna buy?

Edited by Torana482HP, 02 May 2006 - 07:30 PM.

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#17 _lj chev_

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 05:38 PM

we just had a car at work not long ago that had leaked trans fluid into the coolant in the radiator. this stuffed the trans and turned his coolant into creamy frothy brown goo and made the engine overheat. with a hottie trans its better just to run the lines into a cooler on the front of the car and skip the radiator.

why would you be cheap and by a $20 buck cooler for a 1 - 2 grand trans? new ones are $100 bucks onwards. its cheap insurance.

also i think you will find the pressure line is the fitting closest to bellhousing and return is closest to extention housing.

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#18 _lxtorrie_

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Posted 08 May 2006 - 09:15 PM

Cooler is 11" x 8 " (approx my 2 hands width) and is an aluminium kind.

BTW The B&M coolers can be found on www.vpw.coma.au
Check under supercooler in the tranny cooler section.
The b&m range is 11 x 5, 11x6, 11x8 and 11x7.5 if im not mistaken.
My $20- one is in good nick, has been cleaned out and the fins are fine, not bent or broken. Also my radiator is a new crossflow.
Thanks for the reply's, but I dont see why how a b&m 11"x8" for approx. $127 would be that much better than the one I have as they both look almost identical in design except for the bracket positioning. As the one I have has both a bracket on the bottom (same as b&m) and a small bracket on top.
hmmm.......decisions, decisions.

LXTORRIE

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#19 Tiny

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Posted 08 May 2006 - 10:44 PM

The guy who did my trans also did some testing using transmission temp guages on various oils.

he found that just by using redline synthetic trans fluid he DROPPED 60 degreed C from the trans temp.. compared to the same driving style etc with normal DexIII oil..

Oil's aint oils.. but at $250 ( as opposed to $40 for dexIII) to fill your trans with synthetic.. youve gotto ask if 60 degrees is worth it! ( I did it... I reckon its saved me a couple of times too!)

Cheers.