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New engine - Knocking noise

Started by _PeteXU1_ , Oct 09 2010 05:25 PM

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#26 warrenm

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 08:28 AM

In regard to
public/style_images/GMH-oranage/snapback.pngAbsynthHatch, on 10 October 2010 - 11:09 PM, said:

What harm would loctite do?

Loctite starts to go off as soon as pressure is applied.
Nipping up the bolts will start the process and can give a false reading by tensioning time.

I use Loctite bearing mount on the face of the crank, then fit 3 bolts in every 2nd hole nipped up, then loctite the other 3 bolts & tension. Then the dry bolts are removed then loctited & tensioned. At this stage the only flywheel that has come loose on me was when I removed a 8.6kg flywheel (which had been fitted for 500+ passes) & fitted a 6kg flywheel, which I now believe was too light & rattled it loose. This may not have happened if a heavy balancer was fitted to the front of the crank.

#27 _Quagmire_

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 09:24 AM

that's pretty cool info
i don't have anything to add on this subject as i have never played with the little sixes
but if i ever do i will pass the advice on
thanks for adding that warrenm

#28 _Drag lc_

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 05:51 PM

[quote][If the flywheel starts to move, wired bolts wont hold it.
It will just stop the bolts from undoing, it wont stop the flywheel and then the bolts coming loose.
/quote] :bowdown:

your onto it Rob

#29 _PeteXU1_

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 10:46 PM


What harm would loctite do?


Loctite starts to go off as soon as pressure is applied.
Nipping up the bolts will start the process and can give a false reading by tensioning time.

If the flywheel starts to move, wired bolts wont hold it.
It will just stop the bolts from undoing, it wont stop the flywheel and then the bolts coming loose.



So I have spoken with my engine builder, and dropped into Yella Terra this arvo and showed them the flywheel (btw, they are out of stock of the light & RPM flywheels at present)
Both agreed the clamping area of the arp bolts is too small.
My engine builder recommended I machine the outter face of the flywheel as the arp bolts have created a small groove. Get them chamffered again too.
Technically, a dowel shouldn't alter weight distribution as you are simply replacing metal drilled from the parts?

The builder also recommended when fitting the flywheel back on, tension all the bolts (55 lbs), then back out one bolt at a time, apply loctite, then re-tension.
They have a magnetic drill press that will clamp to the flywheel so can drill the dowel holes with flywheel fitted in the car.

I guess I will need to wait and see.

#30 _PeteXU1_

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 04:47 PM

Ok, I'm over the initial disappointment of my flywheel coming loose on a fresh engine after 50 odd kms. I've bitten the bullet and decided to remove the crank and sending it off to crankshaft rebuilders.

They will machine and correct all faces, retap the crank for 7/16 bolts, fit dowels and balance the crank, flywheel and clutch as one unit.

It's not cheap, but I figured I can't be bothered removing the whole lot again.

Apparently it's the standard treatment on group NC cars and they hold together.

I'll post some pics when complete.

Thanks for all the advice.

#31 debkar

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 05:50 PM

Ok, I'm over the initial disappointment of my flywheel coming loose on a fresh engine after 50 odd kms. I've bitten the bullet and decided to remove the crank and sending it off to crankshaft rebuilders.

They will machine and correct all faces, retap the crank for 7/16 bolts, fit dowels and balance the crank, flywheel and clutch as one unit.

It's not cheap, but I figured I can't be bothered removing the whole lot again.

Apparently it's the standard treatment on group NC cars and they hold together.

I'll post some pics when complete.

Thanks for all the advice.



Hi,

I think that is a very wise move, better to be safe than sorry. Keep updating so we know how you are going,

Regards Simon


#32 AbsynthHatch

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 06:36 PM

Some good info and advice here

Learn something new everyday hey!

#33 _CraigA_

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 07:58 PM

They will machine and correct all faces, retap the crank for 7/16 bolts, fit dowels and balance the crank, flywheel and clutch as one unit.



Exactly how mine was done, and my crank and flywheel are the same as yours(knife edged counterweighted/YT lightweight). Mine uses ARP bolts, torqued to factory specs and locitited as per the posts in this thread.

I'm using 6500rpm redline.

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#34 _Agent 34_

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 06:16 PM

Pete,

any news ln the engine fix up ?

#35 _PeteXU1_

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 08:31 PM

Pete,

any news ln the engine fix up ?



So, It's taken some time but everything is fixed up.... once and for all I hope.

A bit over $1000 later and a new romac balancer on top...
Apart from running the BMC listed ARP bolts wth a much smaller clamping area (they are listed as BMC and are the only 3/8 arp flywheel bolts available) the crank was also found to be 50 grams out on the number 6 counterweight.

The crank was crack tested, they had to machine the flange down due to the fretting, and inner face of the flywheel (making it slightly larger), nickel plate the crank flange to build it up again, then machine to fit the enlarged flywheel face. They then re-tapped all the flywheel threads to accept 7/16 bolts and fitted shortened v8 cleveland bolts (I think) to suit. Added two dowels, then balanced the new romac balancer, crank, flywheel & pressure plate as one assembly.
They also agreed that it was a good idea to fit the flywheel and torque all bolts up, then take them out one by one and loctite them in.

Funny thing is I spoke to Eddy Woods at Head Stud Development early that week and they had just done the exact some thing to a customers car. Even the nickel plating due to damage.

Whilst my wallet is lighter, I feel alot more confident that it will hold together now. I'm a little dissapointed to say the least with the engine builder as the crank should not have left the workshop out by so much ( I guess it's possible the nickel plating could have added some weight also).

Looking forward to sticking the webers back on and getting her going again for Christmas.

I hope this helps a few guys out there...

I'll take some pics and post in the coming days.

#36 warrenm

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 07:33 AM

The amount of nickel plating that close to the centre line of the crank, shouldn't change the balance much. Sounds like the crank may have been balanced with a set of bathroom scales.

#37 _WYLDLC6_

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 10:16 AM

Hey guys, just bringing up an old thread, could this problem also occur with an auto. I've got a similar setup to petexu1 except mine's a red crank and auto. It's a brand new engine with about 200km on the clock and has a horrible knocking, banging sound at idle but tends to go away as the revs go up. Seems to be idleing fine just very noisy and does sound like it's coming from the sump but bit hard to tell.
Cheers chris.

#38 Obey 1

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 03:55 PM

Hey guys, just bringing up an old thread, could this problem also occur with an auto. I've got a similar setup to petexu1 except mine's a red crank and auto. It's a brand new engine with about 200km on the clock and has a horrible knocking, banging sound at idle but tends to go away as the revs go up. Seems to be idleing fine just very noisy and does sound like it's coming from the sump but bit hard to tell.
Cheers chris.


Chris..
It might be the bolts joining your convertor to the flywheel...this happened on a V8 I use to own.
Might be worth a look, you just have to take the dust cover off to inspect.

#39 _WYLDLC6_

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 08:15 PM

Thanks mate, did check that and all were good.
Looks like the engine thats taken over a year to get built has lasted about 200 km, luckily the builder does guarantee all his work and will fix.
I cant think of what else it could be but its noisy. We were having some issues with oil pressure as it would start high, 50 psi and as it got warm it dropped to around 25 psi and nearly 0 psi at idle which the engine builder was concerned about, and that was with an oil cooler. My guess is its cooked a bearing.
Bit of shame, hanging to drive it again, 280+ hp really puts a smile on your face.

Cheers Chris.
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