g'day, i'm after peoples thoughts on building up a 308,
my main ideas are
budget around 7k,
308 stroker up to 355, was thinking either vn or vl heads, but what would everyone else go for??
cheers
building ozzie v8's
Started by
_micksgtr_
, May 08 2006 08:44 PM
71 replies to this topic
#2
_LJ355_
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Posted 08 May 2006 - 08:55 PM
Hey mate go with the VN - VT heads for sure and a roller cam, harrop or tourqe power manifold
#3
_dannylxss_
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Posted 08 May 2006 - 09:45 PM
call mick collet at m&m race engines 9459 8979 tell him you want to spend 7k and he will produce 10 sec passes in a torrie for you he is in west heidelberg
#4
_micksgtr_
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Posted 13 May 2006 - 09:10 PM
what about when buying an engine say off the forum or trading post, what thing to look for?? how do you no how good the engine is, or is it a case of buy the engine and pull it apart to re ring it
cheers
cheers
#5
_micksgtr_
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Posted 14 May 2006 - 06:04 PM
for a stroker 308-355 whats the best block to start with and also whats a resonable price stroker kit for rods crank and pistons??
cheers
cheers
#6
_ChiaLX_
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Posted 14 May 2006 - 06:14 PM
dannylxss- Did mick build yours?
He built mine And I havent run it yet. He says it should be good for about 12 sec 1/4 which I am happy with especially for the money i gave him.
He is also one of the nicest blokes I have delt with in the car industry.
I will put his details up in preferred buisness thread when i get time.
He built mine And I havent run it yet. He says it should be good for about 12 sec 1/4 which I am happy with especially for the money i gave him.
He is also one of the nicest blokes I have delt with in the car industry.
I will put his details up in preferred buisness thread when i get time.
#7
_dannylxss_
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Posted 15 May 2006 - 06:10 PM
yeah he built it ghia he did a spot on job and it ran 12.90@107mph in a vb (lurkin) was the rego not to bad for a std stroke 308 and now its going in to my tubbed lc 2 door and hoping to go mid to high 11 
#8
_ChiaLX_
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Posted 15 May 2006 - 06:14 PM
Thats cool, hope mine can hit the twelves.
#9
_dannylxss_
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Posted 15 May 2006 - 06:23 PM
if mick said it it will i know a lot of cars that have come out of that shop and they all do what micks says i dont even have roller rockers
#10
_ChiaLX_
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Posted 15 May 2006 - 06:35 PM
I have faith in him. He built my mates 308 that does 10.6 without gas In a vk brock ( prohdt) but that motor is worth a few dollars more than mine.
#11
_dannylxss_
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Posted 15 May 2006 - 06:46 PM
yeah i know daniels car its very nice one of the fastest 308 in vic o ringed 288 stuff wepens are made of
#12
_ChiaLX_
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Posted 15 May 2006 - 07:09 PM
Yeah he is going out with my little sis. His car is gonna be in street commodores either next month or the one after.
#13
_micksgtr_
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Posted 17 May 2006 - 08:31 PM
someone please explain how this helps me???
#14
_LJ355_
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Posted 17 May 2006 - 08:54 PM
COME and harrop are probaly the best stroker kits around but big dollars there is a kit you can get for $1350 and thats crank rods + pistons which is a good price block choice sorta depends on the car its going in for emmisions im using a black block hope this helps a bit mate !
Edited by LJ355, 17 May 2006 - 08:55 PM.
#15
_LHoon_
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Posted 17 May 2006 - 09:11 PM
I'll bring this post back on track Mick...
There are a number of questions which need answering first though:
1. What will the engine be used for?
2. What kind of power are you chasing?
Tell us exactly what you are wanting from the engine and I can be more specific.
For example, I built my engine (355) to make 420hp but still be streetable enough to drive on the street on weekends. It should run low 11s in an LH torana, and has heaps of torque. Others may choose to go for a wilder cam and hi-rise manifold, to make a bit more power (eg Crane 288 camshaft).
For a 355, I would definately recommend going for VN heads over VL heads. You can use them in standard form, and still make good power up to around 400hp. You don't really neeed to port them unless you are making well over 400hp. Choose a good solid camshaft, and Torquepower inlet manifold. Your cam selection will dictate whether you get a single plane or dual plane manifold.
As for 355 stroker kits, they have come down in price a lot lately. I recommend the Harrop kit. That way you can re-use the Holden rods and pistons (saves money). I've got an old Prostroke crank which needs chev rods and pistons. You might want to bump up the compression a bit, to say 10.0:1, to help with the bigger solid cam.
If you get a VS/VT 5L block they are already relieved for the rods at the bottom of the bores, so you won't have to get any machining done to suit the stroker crank. They also have half decent rods standard.
There are a number of questions which need answering first though:
1. What will the engine be used for?
2. What kind of power are you chasing?
Tell us exactly what you are wanting from the engine and I can be more specific.
For example, I built my engine (355) to make 420hp but still be streetable enough to drive on the street on weekends. It should run low 11s in an LH torana, and has heaps of torque. Others may choose to go for a wilder cam and hi-rise manifold, to make a bit more power (eg Crane 288 camshaft).
For a 355, I would definately recommend going for VN heads over VL heads. You can use them in standard form, and still make good power up to around 400hp. You don't really neeed to port them unless you are making well over 400hp. Choose a good solid camshaft, and Torquepower inlet manifold. Your cam selection will dictate whether you get a single plane or dual plane manifold.
As for 355 stroker kits, they have come down in price a lot lately. I recommend the Harrop kit. That way you can re-use the Holden rods and pistons (saves money). I've got an old Prostroke crank which needs chev rods and pistons. You might want to bump up the compression a bit, to say 10.0:1, to help with the bigger solid cam.
If you get a VS/VT 5L block they are already relieved for the rods at the bottom of the bores, so you won't have to get any machining done to suit the stroker crank. They also have half decent rods standard.
#16
_MAWLER_
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Posted 17 May 2006 - 09:13 PM
Um yeah, I wrote a few things then discovered that LHoon had beat me too it while I was typing so yeah....
Definately go the VN heads, I would also suggest possibly a forged piston.
Good tip on the VS/VT block but does that mean emissions will be stricter?
I recommend you call a few places and start finding out what ppl are recomending for your plans and how much they will charge you to do it.
Is the 7k budget just for the motor or does it include exhaust, ignition etc.
Where abouts are you located mick?
Cheers,
Definately go the VN heads, I would also suggest possibly a forged piston.
Good tip on the VS/VT block but does that mean emissions will be stricter?
I recommend you call a few places and start finding out what ppl are recomending for your plans and how much they will charge you to do it.
Is the 7k budget just for the motor or does it include exhaust, ignition etc.
Where abouts are you located mick?
Cheers,
Edited by Liam, 17 May 2006 - 09:19 PM.
#17
_micksgtr_
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Posted 17 May 2006 - 09:18 PM
looking for somewhere around 450-500hp, was looking at street machine, there are kits in there for 1400 bucks but i'd say there not good, then on the C.O.M.E website there kits seem to be around 2700 for the crank rods and pistons stroker kits are these the way to do?? basically i just need help in picking heads and which stroker kits to go with, the rest i'm pretty right with
cheers
cheers
#18
_MAWLER_
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Posted 17 May 2006 - 09:29 PM
Heads I can help with.
Reco'd VN heads (crack test, surface grind, clearances etc.) with screw in studs, manley 2.02 intake, 1.6 exhaust valves, duel valve springs, cromoly retainers, port job and a few other little details will set you back $2400 from beginning to end and will take you to 500HP.
I took all this from my Flowcraft quote.
If you're located in melbourne, give Eugene a call at Flowcraft, I wouldn't go past em.
Cheers,
Edit: BTW 500HP is pretty quick, these heads on a good 355 with about 12.5:1 comp will see you into the 10's.
Reco'd VN heads (crack test, surface grind, clearances etc.) with screw in studs, manley 2.02 intake, 1.6 exhaust valves, duel valve springs, cromoly retainers, port job and a few other little details will set you back $2400 from beginning to end and will take you to 500HP.
I took all this from my Flowcraft quote.
If you're located in melbourne, give Eugene a call at Flowcraft, I wouldn't go past em.
Cheers,
Edit: BTW 500HP is pretty quick, these heads on a good 355 with about 12.5:1 comp will see you into the 10's.
Edited by Liam, 17 May 2006 - 09:33 PM.
#19
_LHoon_
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Posted 18 May 2006 - 09:54 AM
What fuel will you be using, 98 octane premium?looking for somewhere around 450-500hp.
Basically i just need help in picking heads and which stroker kits to go with, the rest i'm pretty right with.
You can buy a 355 stroker crank for under $1000 these days. Its not easy to build a 500hp motor for under $10k. For a $7k budget you will need to keep your costs relatively low!
I suggest rebuilding an old VS/VT 304 with some quality hi-comp (10.5:1) pistons, Harrop crank, and reuse the standard rods. Get an ARP mains stud kit to help with bottom end strength. You'll need good quality rocker gear as well.
To make 450+hp you need a proven engine combination. Talk to an engine builder before you start. You'll probably need a Crane 288 solid cam, ported VN heads, single plane Torquepower (or Harrop) manifold. You'll also need a 4800-5000rpm stall converter to get the most out of that motor. I have a friend with that combination, running 10's in an LH torana and making well over 450hp.
#20
_[BOTTLEDUP]_
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Posted 18 May 2006 - 01:17 PM
Where can you get one of these for under $1000? I'd be very interested.You can buy a 355 stroker crank for under $1000 these days...
#21
_dannylxss_
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Posted 18 May 2006 - 07:25 PM
l;iam if mick trys to run 12.5to1 comp he will blow his 7k as what fuel can you buy at the pump for this comp as i have 10.5to1 and if i run optimax,sinergy or any thing 98 octaine its on the verge of pinging so 12.5to1 please.Heads I can help with.
Reco'd VN heads (crack test, surface grind, clearances etc.) with screw in studs, manley 2.02 intake, 1.6 exhaust valves, duel valve springs, cromoly retainers, port job and a few other little details will set you back $2400 from beginning to end and will take you to 500HP.
I took all this from my Flowcraft quote.
If you're located in melbourne, give Eugene a call at Flowcraft, I wouldn't go past em.
Cheers,
Edit: BTW 500HP is pretty quick, these heads on a good 355 with about 12.5:1 comp will see you into the 10's.
#22
_Lostit_
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Posted 18 May 2006 - 09:01 PM
With Cast heads yoiur comp will be restricted if you can get your hands on some aluminium ones then you can rise your comp
ANother interestinmg point that ive noticed... there are a lot of so called experts on this forum... i understand that all have a opinion on things but lots of people havent really spent big dollars on motors before... for 7k on a 308 stroker you will NEVER build a reliable 500hp motor maybe a hand grenede. To build a every day 500hp ..308 storker you looking down the barrel of 15-20k and thats not counting if you wanted to go efi which would be better on the street.
After you have a geniune 500hp motor you WILL blow your transmission,diff up to pieces .. maybe not straight away but once it all hooks up.... SO realisily by the time you got it to hook up and handle the power , will the brakes be any good? Will the chassis be any good?
Not to trying to make it sound bad but people need to know what will really means and not counting the added maintenance need to keep these motors running.
AAnyway which evere way you head dont jump into it.. i hate seeing people just rip up there hard earned cash on crap ..keep us posted.
Denis
Lostit
ANother interestinmg point that ive noticed... there are a lot of so called experts on this forum... i understand that all have a opinion on things but lots of people havent really spent big dollars on motors before... for 7k on a 308 stroker you will NEVER build a reliable 500hp motor maybe a hand grenede. To build a every day 500hp ..308 storker you looking down the barrel of 15-20k and thats not counting if you wanted to go efi which would be better on the street.
After you have a geniune 500hp motor you WILL blow your transmission,diff up to pieces .. maybe not straight away but once it all hooks up.... SO realisily by the time you got it to hook up and handle the power , will the brakes be any good? Will the chassis be any good?
Not to trying to make it sound bad but people need to know what will really means and not counting the added maintenance need to keep these motors running.
AAnyway which evere way you head dont jump into it.. i hate seeing people just rip up there hard earned cash on crap ..keep us posted.
Denis
Lostit
#23
_MAWLER_
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Posted 18 May 2006 - 10:51 PM
Nah danny, wasn't suggesting he run 12.5:1 I was saying those heads are more than capable of doing what he needs and that I know of a VH with these heads running 12.5:1 comp that runs into the 10s. By saying this I was also trying to say 'are you sure you want to go to 500Hp, because it really is quite a large figure?'
And lostit I couldn't agree more with you, and this was why I was asking mick what exactly his 7k budget was for, because there is a lot of other things, such as ignition which will need to be upgraded along with the engine and 7k will not see you even close. And thats without all the things you made reference too, brakes, diff etc.
7k is nevertheless a decent budget and can see you make great gains in HP, like I said, start phoning round a few joints and see what ppl suggest for you and the prices you might be expecting to pay. As lostit said, take your time and it will all be good.
OT a bit, but danny, I was speaking to the bloke at ICE ignition today (can't remember his name) cos I'm getting my dizzy recurved (BTW i'm running 10.5:1 on my stroker) and he said he has 11.1:1 comp running fine on pump fuel. Don't know what ur ignition system is but maybe there are some gains to be made for you in that area that will fix some pinging??
Cheers,
And lostit I couldn't agree more with you, and this was why I was asking mick what exactly his 7k budget was for, because there is a lot of other things, such as ignition which will need to be upgraded along with the engine and 7k will not see you even close. And thats without all the things you made reference too, brakes, diff etc.
7k is nevertheless a decent budget and can see you make great gains in HP, like I said, start phoning round a few joints and see what ppl suggest for you and the prices you might be expecting to pay. As lostit said, take your time and it will all be good.
OT a bit, but danny, I was speaking to the bloke at ICE ignition today (can't remember his name) cos I'm getting my dizzy recurved (BTW i'm running 10.5:1 on my stroker) and he said he has 11.1:1 comp running fine on pump fuel. Don't know what ur ignition system is but maybe there are some gains to be made for you in that area that will fix some pinging??
Cheers,
#24
lakeside
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Posted 18 May 2006 - 11:00 PM
no don't need lots of power if get a light car to get with. I think a $10,000 500hp stroker would last 2000kms if it's lucky. I have a banger 308 in bits, need a total new vavle train, new dizzy and carb and it will cost $5000+. It just cost $3000 to rebuild my 202 short, new block and crank.
If you what to go real fast, buy 2 turbos and bolt one on each bank, a tremec gearbox and then hang-on. Why build a engine when you can buy LS1's for about $3500 and then buy a few good a few goodies for it. The torry will run 10s easy, and then if it shits it's self, you buy another crate and bolt the fast bits in to the new one.
If you what to go real fast, buy 2 turbos and bolt one on each bank, a tremec gearbox and then hang-on. Why build a engine when you can buy LS1's for about $3500 and then buy a few good a few goodies for it. The torry will run 10s easy, and then if it shits it's self, you buy another crate and bolt the fast bits in to the new one.
#25
_dannylxss_
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Posted 19 May 2006 - 06:28 PM
fair enough liam i understand the ingnition i am running is a standard coil and a modded vk electronic it cost me $100 to get done and lakeside has a good point you dont need much power in a light car to run numbers as i have 350hp and aiming for mid to high 11 in a lc 2 door and set up is very imporant
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