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202 Gemini


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#1 _Mr Detroit_

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 01:23 PM

I picked up this TE Gemini SL/X for $300 on Ebay. It had been hit on top of the bootlid from behind by a raised 4x4 and had a little bit of damage to that area. Was otherwise a runner and the seller was hoping to get shitloads more cash for it. Had the Trimatic tunnel which suited my future needs/ideas.

The plan is to put it together with a lot of weight reduction and a 202 Holden straight six for drag racing and burnouts. A bit of a fun car really and something to use as a way of teaching my kids how to work on cars - sure beats playing with dolls.

I managed to sell the original G161 4 banger engine and the tranny for $280 and some of the other parts to completely reclaim the cost of purchase (against 13 for 1300 rules I know). Have also purchased some complete engines dirt cheap (no more than $25 each) and sold off the bits I don't want for well over what I paid. At the moment I am actually $400 in front on total expenditure so far.

Here are some pics to better explain things:

The original 4 banger engine. Went ok, although it didn't have power steering, which was a bitch when getting it home from Pakenham (East of Melbourne) to Norlane (near Geelong).
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My work bench... cos I can
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Some of the goodies I plan to use, including the two brand new in box genuine tail lights that came with the car.
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The damage to the top of the bootlid.
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Replacement bootlid.
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Damage to the tail light
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Bit of jack the dancer under the battery tray. Won't be needing it anyway as I am relocating the battery to the boot.
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Rough job of cutting the cancer out from the battery tray. Thinking maybe using it to fit some sort of inlet duct or something.
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Engine removed and about to do some dummying up of a six banger in the engine bay.
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Dummy fitting a 202 with my head, pipes and manifold.
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Dummy fitting a coil and fuel pump. The fuel pump is actually a small block Chev unit, which is a straight bolt on.
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Not a lot of room for a radiator. Tossed up over this whether to use methanol, thus eliminating the need for water pump, thermostat and radiator. Might play around with fitting a radiator in front of the support panel intercooler style.
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Plenty of sump clearance with the HZ unit. Tried a HG sump earlier and it didn't clear the steering rack.
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Plenty of clearance for the pipes, although the G161 engine mounts will be disappeared.
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Pipe clearance here too.
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One tonner diff I picked up for free from a speedway racer, who only wanted the 3.55 centre and axles. Looking for a 3.9 or 4.44 centre for it when the time arrives. Will obviously be cutting it down.
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The head I will be using. Not too much or too little shaved off the face. Have seen some people go too far and lose shitloads of power.
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A factory inlet port with the big fat post for the head bolt. These heads were asthmatic on a 149, let alone on a 202 and anything you do will improve the shit out of them.
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Hence the removal of the post and replacement with a steel tube. This was done by Yella Terra as it started life as a 161 unit, done to stage 4 specs.
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Stock camshaft on the left and the SigErson unit I am using on the right. SigErson cam has a little less lift than the Crow unit I usually use but still has a big lump and a great spread of power delivery.
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Roller rockers. Very similar to what is used on the 3.8 Holden V6s.
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SAAS Racing seat which I got for $15 on Ebay, 5in Tacho with shift light ($25 on Ebay) and old school B&M shifter that was pulled out of an old Holden at a wreckers.
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#2 wot179

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 02:16 PM

You could always trim the middle of the radiater support to solve your clearance issues.

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#3 DanWA

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 04:55 PM

Why did you go down the 202 route?

The V6 is a much simpler conversion with alot more pros then cons

I like it either way!

My messy bay:
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#4 _Mr Detroit_

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 06:09 PM

Hey DanWA, thanks for your suggestion, but really I say, why not fit a 202? I have been building and racing Holden straight sixes since Jesus played centre half back for Jerusalem and my dad and his dad before him so why deviate from what I know I can do and do well as far as the engine side of things go. And really, I like a challenge. If I had a dollar for every time someone told me the V6 or V8 conversions are easier I could have funded the project from start to finish. However, there's no fun in doing something easy, that may work for some folk, but that's not how I do things. As well, the Gemini is lighter than a Torana, already has the Trimatic tunnel and are thick on the ground. All wins from my point of view.


Wot179, looks like a good idea. I might start measuring the radiator and support panel up and see what I can come up. I certainly do not want to go to the unneccesary length of cutting out the firewall and setting the engine back, like I've seen someone else do.


We've gotten a 265 Hemi into a GB Galant many years ago and Holden sixes into a VN Commodore (Speedway), Ford Prefect and seen another one in a Morris Minor so it can be done.

#5 DanWA

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 07:31 PM

Yeah i get ya, extra points for being different!!!

#6 rodomo

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 07:34 PM

Since Jesus played centre half back for Jerusalem and my dad and his dad before him


My dear old dad says that (he says full back) What is your heritage?
And I'm with you 2 on the 2-0-2 :spoton:

#7 greens nice

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 07:42 PM

just food for thought but i have just bought a leyland mini alloy radiator off ebay, yes it is a china but for $96 at my door step im not complaining.
they are only 25cm x 28 cm and 40mm thick, which is great, less water = less weight and i will be able to get it warm easier on alcohol.
also using a davies craig pump.

#8 _wblje_

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 09:14 PM

great project the 202 fits well

#9 _judgelj_

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 01:26 PM

hehe i have the same rocker cover!!

#10 _Mr Detroit_

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 06:23 PM

What is your heritage?

Scottish-Irish on my dad's side and English-German on my mum's side :buttrock:... oh you mean my Vintage, Child of the late 70's and 80's :innocent:


just food for thought but i have just bought a leyland mini alloy radiator off ebay, yes it is a china but for $96 at my door step im not complaining.
they are only 25cm x 28 cm and 40mm thick, which is great, less water = less weight and i will be able to get it warm easier on alcohol.
also using a davies craig pump.

Thanks, I've decided against methanol as I don't want to run massive high compression. Have a radiator, which I am going to measure up and then measure the support panel to see what I need to do to make it fit.

great project the 202 fits well

Cheers

hehe i have the same rocker cover!!

Me too!:Buddy:

#11 bryanw

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 09:32 PM

looks good so far, guys used to often slot 202/auto combo's into GE MINI's. but further back, were 2 cuts in the firewall, one cup for the starter hump, cant remember the other, but you can then run the radiator, think the little radiator hole was cut out to the chassis rails?, was some time ago. chev pump was a cheap old school upgrade, they used to be less than a holden rebuild kit.
just leave the Gemini converter in to get higher stall. use the Gemini shifter and console.

#12 _mick74lh_

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 11:00 PM

So I'm guessing its not gonna be road registered? Great project either way. I love seeing people build something cool for next to nothing. They're the most inspirational projects

#13 fenz

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 07:42 AM

Should be a fun little project.

Any idea in the weight difference between the gemini and an early torana???
Have seen a HB torana with a turbo 202 run at the drags (cars from Adelaide i think) and it goes along quite nicely.

I have ablue 202 and tri-hard laying around and have often thought about a silmilar conversion my self.
Will be interesting watch it go together.

#14 TerrA LX

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 08:39 AM

Recessed firewall with a lc-lj makes the 202 fit alot better, looks factory.

#15 _Mr Detroit_

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 08:19 PM

Any idea in the weight difference between the gemini and an early torana???

My car weighed in at 962kg when I bought it with full interior, engine etc. Hoping to get 100kg out of it, although keeping it in the mid 900s is more realistic due to the increase in engine size/weight. Four door HBs were in the mid/low 800s and two doors were even lighter again.

So I'm guessing its not gonna be road registered? Great project either way. I love seeing people build something cool for next to nothing. They're the most inspirational projects

It definitely will not being seeing any road use :buttrock:
One of the reasons I am doing it is to actually do it on the cheap with as much done by myself at home and still be able to run some good numbers.

just leave the Gemini converter in to get higher stall. use the Gemini shifter and console.

Have a Gemini converter sitting in the garage and picked up a 202 flexplate that had been drilled and tapped to suit a Gemini converter for 0.99 on Ebay.

#16 fenz

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Posted 19 March 2011 - 11:58 AM

Have heard about the gemini converter a couple of times now,
Any idea on what the stall speed is when using one and is it just a matter of redrilling the flex plate to make it work?

#17 _Mr Detroit_

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Posted 19 March 2011 - 09:22 PM

Have heard about the gemini converter a couple of times now,
Any idea on what the stall speed is when using one and is it just a matter of redrilling the flex plate to make it work?


I'm not sure on stall speed, have heard everything from 2800 to 3900.

The Gemini flexplate definitely doesn't bolt up to the red six and I'm not sure if the redrilled flexplate from the six is the right way to go either but if I do opt for that and it works it will be 99cents well spent lol

#18 fenz

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 10:27 AM

Hey give it a go and see what the outcome is.
Certainly a cheap way to go if you can make it all happen.

Should be a good burn out package once you get it up and running.

#19 bryanw

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 02:49 PM

found Gemini converter bolted straight to the 6 cyl flex plate, no drilling required.
rpm I think depends on the torque of the motor, I found with a healthy 202 at 2200rpm it just started turning the wheels, so guess more than that with brakes set up properly.
Gemini is more than a stock 202 converter.

#20 _Mr Detroit_

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 03:39 PM

Here's a few more updated pics...

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#21 rodomo

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 08:10 PM

Dear old Dad's 84' Corolla (local build with factory tri-matic) stalls @2200, engine and trans at operating temp. 1300cc.

#22 _nicko61_

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 08:07 AM

found Gemini converter bolted straight to the 6 cyl flex plate, no drilling required.
rpm I think depends on the torque of the motor, I found with a healthy 202 at 2200rpm it just started turning the wheels, so guess more than that with brakes set up properly.
Gemini is more than a stock 202 converter.

will the gemini converter slip onto the 6cyl trimatic properly? or are you using a Gemini Auto?
cheers Nick

#23 _Mr Detroit_

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 07:49 PM

I only mentioned the Gemini converter because a few people brought it up and to be honest the only thing I have done with the one I have is see if it will bolt up to the flexplate I have

#24 _stretchlc_

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 04:21 PM

Gemini Converters fit no worries!....from memory the main reason they have a higher stall speed over the 6 cylinder converters is their smaller diameter. Has long been the favourite for drag racers since the mid 80's ,and back then I had a Gemini Stall converter modified to stall to 5000rpm ( no B.S.).....that spent about 1 hour in the car and was then removed and a more sensible 3,500 rpm converter re-fitted!!...........If anyone in Adelaide is looking for a nice modified Gemini Converter for their Tri/Glide transmissions, I would highly recommend Salisbury Transmissions!!....This isnt a business plug by any means, but they built a few converters for me over the years and have proved to be reliable,strong and what stall speed I had specified....Hope this info has helped in someway!...cheers...stretch

#25 _Mr Detroit_

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 08:05 PM

Screw in studs arrived yesterday, will fit them up sometime this week and then finish complete assembly of the engine. First fire up is hopefully not too far away.




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