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New 6 Build or v8?

Started by _Phantom10_ , Apr 30 2011 02:53 PM

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#1 _Phantom10_

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 02:53 PM

Hi all..

After finally completing my new 186 build back in Dec, it now decided to ... not want to live anymore?.
i pulled the rocker cover off, as it was burning oil and i thought it may have been Valve stem seals, but turns out all i found was milky sludge.. woo!
anyways im suspecting a cracked head and or block, as the gasket was fine, but there was no real signs of water in the sump and slight traces in the radiator.

I have been wanting to put a 308 in for a long time and now this has happend am tossing up whether to build another 186/202 or whatever i decide, or just do a V8 conversion.

what im really after is suggestions on what to put in and do to the 6 and rough prices/places to get parts or have things done. compared to buying a 308 (which i can get form a customer at work for $400) and rebuilding that and doing the whole conversion, i know that the 8 will be more expensive, but will i be able to get it engineered etc?

If i go with the 6 i would want it Hot, the parts i can prob salvage are the Cam, maybe pistons, crank, rods, timing gear for the block and off the head Rollers, possible valves, springs (tho its prob better to get new ones).

The cam i have is a Waggot 409, @50 in.217 out.217 lift in.285 out.285.
Pretty sure the crank is balanced, and the rods are standard.
pistons are ACL HK race pistons for a 192.
also YT 2007 hyd Roller rockers, dbl springs and oversized valves, though as im getting headwork i may aswell get new springs and valves.

as i havent driven much with the engine now im not sure what it goes like, but is this config together with 1-3/4 SUs decent?
what have others got? and what would make it really go?

if you can make any sense of this, suggsetions and help is appreciated lol
Thanks

Ben

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#2 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 03:01 PM

Mate, the hardest part about putting a V8 or even a RB30 in your LC or LJ is going home and telling your old man your gay.

:tease:

That cam is tiny, if you want some go your going to need to scrap that, Rest of it might be useable if you get some more work done to the head....

Cheers.

Edited by Bomber Watson, 30 April 2011 - 03:03 PM.

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#3 _Phantom10_

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 03:07 PM

damn.. lol cos i have a rb20 for my 31, and well ill have a spare 30 sitting in the shed soon also have a spare turbo kit..
But no i wouldnt wreck my torana in that way, iv always wanted a v8 and v8 LC/Js are tough, but i guess if i was really going to do it id buy a 2 door. or an LX.

which is why im prob going to end up rebuilding a 6, im just after something thats tough and relaible.

Edited by Phantom10, 30 April 2011 - 03:07 PM.

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#4 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 03:44 PM

I can call your dad and tell him if you want

RB into Nissan is fine in my books, i actually dont mind R31's.

Cheers.

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#5 orangeLJ

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 04:14 PM

Bomber is also into roller blading.......

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#6 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 04:28 PM

Far more manly than a V8.

And your supposed to be on my side on this one!!!!

Edited by Bomber Watson, 30 April 2011 - 04:28 PM.

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#7 mr5000

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 04:46 PM

do the v8 other wise every time you pull up next to a v8 torry with your rollerblading 6 you will go awww i wish i had one do it once do it right

although if you cant afford to do it properly motor trans diff adjust suspension to suit

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#8 _Phantom10_

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 05:37 PM

the only thing that puts me off about the v8, is the fact that i have to buy the motor, rebuild it anyway, buy the conversion kit etc and all the bits to make it engineerable..., then get it engineered. when with less i could buy a stock 186 or 202 and build it up to be pretty quick.... Stupid apprentice wages lol

Im not to sure about the potential of a Hot 6, or what there limits are, or what a good combination of internals would be.
Which is what im hopefully trying to find out

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#9 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 05:45 PM

The one person who has a V8 in there Torana that has commented in this thread goes about 2 seconds slower than a couple of six cylinder powered local ones have....

Cheers.

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#10 _Phantom10_

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 05:48 PM

what would you recommend for internals, block and headwork etc?

as i will be starting with a stock motor and i have no idea what will make it go and what will just be all noise until 100000000rpm.

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#11 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 05:50 PM

Budget??

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#12 _Phantom10_

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 05:54 PM

is 2-3k not enough? lol
theres a guy here who has a race spec 202 and he recons id need around 7k? which im pretty sure is not right...

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#13 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 06:21 PM

I've spent about 10k on mine....

My cylinder head owes me more than your budget....

2-3 would build a nice mild little mild one that would beat a V8 that you put in the car for the same money (extra spent on g/box diff suspension etc)

Cheers.

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#14 _Phantom10_

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 06:36 PM

hmmmmm., yea stupid apprentice wages limit me lol. but i found a place that will do what they call is a recon 3/4 race spec short motor for around $1300, but they didnt give much info as to whats used etc.

im running a standard m20 box with v8 clutch and standard auto diff, tho i have a 3.55 which im going to swap over.

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#15 _judgelj_

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 07:11 PM

at the same time dont forget the 8's are heavier and unless you build it specifically to be able to push the extra weight bombers right you will run slower than a 6. well at least thats my logic.

but then again i hear roller blades are very cheap these days? just joking.

seriously though, nothing has to cost what people say it does. decide on what is going to be easiest for you and commit to it. money can come later, if you want it bad enough you will find what you need for a good price.

take my motor for example. my motor all up with two m20's cost me $500. motor had the following:
HEI dizzy
YT or equivalant head - 161h/c. o/s h/c valves, double valve sprangs, port work
mild cam
high volume oil pump
duralite pistons (are they even peformance slugs or just standard oem)

add the cost of the extras:
150 for a reboxed crow cam from an engine builder near my house, he sells through ebay, any specs (who knows what the old one was)
70 for lifters
140 for a set of new springs + installation (old ones only had about 60 pounds left in them)
plus new gasket kit

the only thing that will set you back is the carb, depends what you want as to how much you will spend.

all that keeping in mind the high compression, manual box and 3.55 LSD you will be sweet. i guess at the end of the day its completely up to you. in my opinion even if its a little slower v8 is a great choice. not because its bigger but because it has more potential, not all of us have big dollars to spend on a 6 that will only pump out so much power, it can be seen as some as a waste of money. but what puts me off is the money associated with the engineering cert.

end rant

in m

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#16 _Phantom10_

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 07:22 PM

exactly how i feel, the cert part.

also the fact that if i do an 8 it will sit there for the next 5yrs and i dont want to do that.

I reckon i might just stick with a mild to hot 6 for now. ill do some more research into it this time to get it right.
unlike last time i just purchased the 186 from a burnout car, did all the gaskets, cam, lifters, timing gear, rollers etc and now its dead.

a fresh start is needed :lol:

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#17 _Drag lc_

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 08:06 PM

The one person who has a V8 in there Torana that has commented in this thread goes about 2 seconds slower than a couple of six cylinder powered local ones have....

i must be one of the local ones :bowdown:

is there any more to say........................... :Headbang2:

is 2-3k not enough? lol
theres a guy here who has a race spec 202 and he recons id need around 7k? which im pretty sure is not right...

you might get a good fresh mild combo for that (7k)

but you will need more than that if you want a sub 13 at strip.and are going to start from scratch.

dont be fooled there is good power to be made from the 202's if done right.

Cheers Hayden

Edited by Drag lc, 30 April 2011 - 08:08 PM.

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#18 _Drag lc_

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 08:11 PM

http://www.gmh-toran..._keyword=&st=40

the hot 202's are the next page up for anyone interested......................

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#19 _coupe202_

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 08:40 PM

Turbo it that will fix your problem.

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#20 _ljxu1torana_

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 08:58 PM

I've spent about 10k on mine....

My cylinder head owes me more than your budget....

2-3 would build a nice mild little mild one that would beat a V8 that you put in the car for the same money (extra spent on g/box diff suspension etc)

Cheers.

hey bomber is your motor made out of gold, seriously even if it includes maching and labour.they saw you coming.and it probaly be a slug.

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#21 orangeLJ

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 11:13 PM

Im just shit stirring dj hahaha,

Id stick with the six anyday, its not only the cost of building a v8 but the costs associated with changing driveline, engineering, brakes etc.

I must say though, the 200hp 202 in the racecar is a throw together, owes us bugger all really.

You could easily throw together a reasonable bottom end for 3k, then just lookout on ebay or locally for a decent head, you dont need anything crazy, just something with decent valves, springs, and a mild port job.

If you build the bottom end right, you can always change heads and cams unlimited times in the future.

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#22 orangeLJ

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 11:32 PM

Also, I can see 10k in a 202,

A decent set of pistons, like the jes in my shed are 1500 alone, (on special and custom made to our specs)

Then there is the set of h beam lightweight rods (theyre a bit of a secret tho, so camt say more than that) they were up around the same mark from memory

Add to that a knife edged nitrided blue crank, plus machine work to suit the rods, bearings to suit etc etc theres another k atleast.

Block machine work, assuming you need it, might total about a grand if its full rates.

And we havent even looked at the roller cam and lifters in the cupboard too, the romac balancer, timing gears, high ratio race spec roller rockers, custom sump setup, etc etc.

As for the headwork, cast iron heads are a bitch to port, lots of labour involved as they are time consuming. Then there is all the incidental parts, ie springs, valves etc. You couls easily spend 6hrs per port I reckon, you caant just be gungho and wack a water jacket.....

I dont know bombers specs, but I can EASILY see 10k in a 202.

ours is going to run a jzed though lol

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#23 _ljxu1torana_

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 12:26 AM

Also, I can see 10k in a 202,

A decent set of pistons, like the jes in my shed are 1500 alone, (on special and custom made to our specs)

Then there is the set of h beam lightweight rods (theyre a bit of a secret tho, so camt say more than that) they were up around the same mark from memory

Add to that a knife edged nitrided blue crank, plus machine work to suit the rods, bearings to suit etc etc theres another k atleast.

Block machine work, assuming you need it, might total about a grand if its full rates.

And we havent even looked at the roller cam and lifters in the cupboard too, the romac balancer, timing gears, high ratio race spec roller rockers, custom sump setup, etc etc.

As for the headwork, cast iron heads are a bitch to port, lots of labour involved as they are time consuming. Then there is all the incidental parts, ie springs, valves etc. You couls easily spend 6hrs per port I reckon, you caant just be gungho and wack a water jacket.....

I dont know bombers specs, but I can EASILY see 10k in a 202.

ours is going to run a jzed though lol

if i spent 10k on a aspriated 202 i want the motor to run at least 10s and that will never happen.my turbo 186 cost me including machine work head work about 4k that includes the turbo set up.some people must have a lot of money to throw around.

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#24 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 12:27 AM

I've spent about 10k on mine....

My cylinder head owes me more than your budget....

2-3 would build a nice mild little mild one that would beat a V8 that you put in the car for the same money (extra spent on g/box diff suspension etc)

Cheers.

hey bomber is your motor made out of gold, seriously even if it includes maching and labour.they saw you coming.and it probaly be a slug.

Also, I can see 10k in a 202,

A decent set of pistons, like the jes in my shed are 1500 alone, (on special and custom made to our specs)

Then there is the set of h beam lightweight rods (theyre a bit of a secret tho, so camt say more than that) they were up around the same mark from memory

Add to that a knife edged nitrided blue crank, plus machine work to suit the rods, bearings to suit etc etc theres another k atleast.

Block machine work, assuming you need it, might total about a grand if its full rates.

And we havent even looked at the roller cam and lifters in the cupboard too, the romac balancer, timing gears, high ratio race spec roller rockers, custom sump setup, etc etc.

As for the headwork, cast iron heads are a bitch to port, lots of labour involved as they are time consuming. Then there is all the incidental parts, ie springs, valves etc. You couls easily spend 6hrs per port I reckon, you caant just be gungho and wack a water jacket.....

I dont know bombers specs, but I can EASILY see 10k in a 202.

ours is going to run a jzed though lol
if i spent 10k on a aspriated 202 i want the motor to run at least 10s and that will never happen.my turbo 186 cost me including machine work head work about 4k that includes the turbo set up.some people must have a lot of money to throw around.

Thanks for your input Jason i suppose your happy running rods out of a blown up motor whilst your car sits in bare metal/bog going nowhere???

Cheers.

Edited by Bomber Watson, 01 May 2011 - 12:28 AM.

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#25 _ljxu1torana_

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 01:03 AM

I've spent about 10k on mine....

My cylinder head owes me more than your budget....

2-3 would build a nice mild little mild one that would beat a V8 that you put in the car for the same money (extra spent on g/box diff suspension etc)

Cheers.

hey bomber is your motor made out of gold, seriously even if it includes maching and labour.they saw you coming.and it probaly be a slug.

Also, I can see 10k in a 202,

A decent set of pistons, like the jes in my shed are 1500 alone, (on special and custom made to our specs)

Then there is the set of h beam lightweight rods (theyre a bit of a secret tho, so camt say more than that) they were up around the same mark from memory

Add to that a knife edged nitrided blue crank, plus machine work to suit the rods, bearings to suit etc etc theres another k atleast.

Block machine work, assuming you need it, might total about a grand if its full rates.

And we havent even looked at the roller cam and lifters in the cupboard too, the romac balancer, timing gears, high ratio race spec roller rockers, custom sump setup, etc etc.

As for the headwork, cast iron heads are a bitch to port, lots of labour involved as they are time consuming. Then there is all the incidental parts, ie springs, valves etc. You couls easily spend 6hrs per port I reckon, you caant just be gungho and wack a water jacket.....

I dont know bombers specs, but I can EASILY see 10k in a 202.

ours is going to run a jzed though lol
if i spent 10k on a aspriated 202 i want the motor to run at least 10s and that will never happen.my turbo 186 cost me including machine work head work about 4k that includes the turbo set up.some people must have a lot of money to throw around.

Thanks for your input Jason i suppose your happy running rods out of a blown up motor whilst your car sits in bare metal/bog going nowhere???

Cheers.

hey bomber my rods are not from a blown up motor,my car is not to far away from being on the road.the car is going through the primer stage at the moment.my friend who is doing it for me can only do it when that he gets time because he owns two business he does the body work at night time and on the weekends,and when he does a job he does it propaly.when the car is registred i will be going down to the drags and my goal is first meeting is low 12s at 115mph.i know that the car has got the power to run 12s easily.i own a 13.4 @ 103 mph sr20 turbo silvia and my torana out accelerates my silvia from take of mid range and top end speed.it has at least 10 car lenghts on my silvia.