is there anyway of fitting commodore hubs and VT disc to lc/lj disc brake stub axles. Then cutout a few brackets to fit VT calipers. Any reason why it can't be done
disc brake stub/ commodore hubs
Started by
lakeside
, May 17 2006 10:52 PM
22 replies to this topic
#1
lakeside
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Posted 17 May 2006 - 10:52 PM
#2
dattoman
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Posted 17 May 2006 - 11:19 PM
You can fit conversion hubs....... but not actual commodore ones.
As they bolt on with 3 bolts to the lower stub. They are an intergral sealed bearing on the VR on commode
VT disc will go on...... it sits close to the stub but with the VT conversion hub it will fit yes
VT caliper is poo......... its also going to be the hard part to fit....... but it can be done I guess
I'd persoanlly pay the extra for the AU2/3 caliper and go that way
Better caliper and easier to adapt a mount
Or buy a Hoppers kit.
Thats essentially whats used in their kit
VT conversion hub, AU2 disc and caliper
As they bolt on with 3 bolts to the lower stub. They are an intergral sealed bearing on the VR on commode
VT disc will go on...... it sits close to the stub but with the VT conversion hub it will fit yes
VT caliper is poo......... its also going to be the hard part to fit....... but it can be done I guess
I'd persoanlly pay the extra for the AU2/3 caliper and go that way
Better caliper and easier to adapt a mount
Or buy a Hoppers kit.
Thats essentially whats used in their kit
VT conversion hub, AU2 disc and caliper
#3
_Sammy_
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Posted 18 May 2006 - 02:08 PM
what makes the au caliper better than the vt other than the mounting points ?
#4
_CHOPPER_
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Posted 18 May 2006 - 07:59 PM
From what I heard when the VT was new, the calipers tend to flex, bind and a couple of other nasty things.
#5
lakeside
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Posted 18 May 2006 - 09:55 PM
i don't mind paying for anything if it's the best. Can't see why it cost $1200 to fit 2 calipers and discs. If some can explain why $1200 is a good price, i will buy them. Rather give my mates the money to make my something.Or buy a Hoppers kit.
Thats essentially whats used in their kit
VT conversion hub, AU2 disc and caliper
#6
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Posted 18 May 2006 - 10:01 PM
Every single part in the kit is brand new. Plus you get an engineers cert. If you knew where to go, you may be able to get the individual parts for less, but then you still need the bracket so the caliper bolts to the stub axle.
#7
lakeside
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Posted 18 May 2006 - 11:39 PM
so it should beEvery single part in the kit is brand new.
#8
hatchssv8
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Posted 19 May 2006 - 10:09 AM
The infamous 'engineering certificate' that should be sold in rolls, 200 certificates per roll, 4 rolls per pack.(or go bulk and get the 9 rolls per pack) .
I am so tempted to say what many have done or are considering when it comes to brake upgrades (that require an adapter bracket or dogbone) and the need to facilitate caliper mounting.
Request : Can anyone post a copy of this engineering certificate. We have members who have these kits fitted, there must be a certificate around here somewhere.
More to follow-
Max
I am so tempted to say what many have done or are considering when it comes to brake upgrades (that require an adapter bracket or dogbone) and the need to facilitate caliper mounting.
Request : Can anyone post a copy of this engineering certificate. We have members who have these kits fitted, there must be a certificate around here somewhere.
More to follow-
Max
#9
_Sammy_
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Posted 19 May 2006 - 12:47 PM
ok just to show you what you get in this hopper stoppers kit lakeside.
this fitting is on a HR front end with HQ disc brake stub axles but its virtually identical otherwise.
HR stub axles = 290mm rotor
HQ stub axles = 300mm rotor
the kit comes with conversion hubs and bearings etc, these fit directly to the standard disc brake stub axles .... then you screw the mounting bracket to the original brake caliper mounting point as per below picture.
then once thats on, the disc slots on over the hub and the caliper over the top of it which attaches to the holes in the mounting bracket.
my kit cost $1370 i think it was, that was for all you see in these pictures aswell as braided custom length brake lines, brake pads and the slotted rotors.
oh yeah and the infamous engineering certificate and tests.
considering you can't get any other straight bolt on kits with all brand new parts and engineers certificate that i know of i was happy to pay for this kit.
pads are normally $50-80, rotors are approx $120 each slotted, then you will probably pay a good $200+ for a set of new calipers. the brake lines are probably a good $150 then theres the custom made conversion hubs and the brackets, ...... half the cost is paying for someone else to research and engineer the conversion parts ....
i know i wouldn't be betting my cars stopping ability on a backyard bracket!
this fitting is on a HR front end with HQ disc brake stub axles but its virtually identical otherwise.
HR stub axles = 290mm rotor
HQ stub axles = 300mm rotor
the kit comes with conversion hubs and bearings etc, these fit directly to the standard disc brake stub axles .... then you screw the mounting bracket to the original brake caliper mounting point as per below picture.
then once thats on, the disc slots on over the hub and the caliper over the top of it which attaches to the holes in the mounting bracket.
my kit cost $1370 i think it was, that was for all you see in these pictures aswell as braided custom length brake lines, brake pads and the slotted rotors.
oh yeah and the infamous engineering certificate and tests.
considering you can't get any other straight bolt on kits with all brand new parts and engineers certificate that i know of i was happy to pay for this kit.
pads are normally $50-80, rotors are approx $120 each slotted, then you will probably pay a good $200+ for a set of new calipers. the brake lines are probably a good $150 then theres the custom made conversion hubs and the brackets, ...... half the cost is paying for someone else to research and engineer the conversion parts ....
i know i wouldn't be betting my cars stopping ability on a backyard bracket!
#10
_Oldn64_
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Posted 19 May 2006 - 02:05 PM
Exactly the conversion I am doing on my EH at present (sorry no pics)
The difference between Sammy's conversion and mine is that I am using HG stubs not HQ (pretty much teh same anyway).
The biggest issue with the VT caliper is that the bolt holes are closer together and thus make mounting a little bit of a pain in the backside. I biggest issue with teh Hoppers kit with my application is that the caliper hits my wishbones (which my engineer will not pass) so I have had to have a mate (fully qualified mech eng) correct the issue. I am using teh HSV calipers (only because I had them) and a custom master cylinder brake setup. Had to go this path as I needed bloody big brakes.
The hoppers kit I have heard some great things about, and teh cost is very reasonable. But this will onyl give you the brakes, you then need to consider upgrading the master etc otherwise they will not be as efficent.
Cheers
PS: Sammy, you have a rear steering rack, who did the conbversion and how much. I am in process of looking at this but not sure whom to go with. Does it use original steering column etc or what??? (sorry about teh off topic)
The difference between Sammy's conversion and mine is that I am using HG stubs not HQ (pretty much teh same anyway).
The biggest issue with the VT caliper is that the bolt holes are closer together and thus make mounting a little bit of a pain in the backside. I biggest issue with teh Hoppers kit with my application is that the caliper hits my wishbones (which my engineer will not pass) so I have had to have a mate (fully qualified mech eng) correct the issue. I am using teh HSV calipers (only because I had them) and a custom master cylinder brake setup. Had to go this path as I needed bloody big brakes.
The hoppers kit I have heard some great things about, and teh cost is very reasonable. But this will onyl give you the brakes, you then need to consider upgrading the master etc otherwise they will not be as efficent.
Cheers
PS: Sammy, you have a rear steering rack, who did the conbversion and how much. I am in process of looking at this but not sure whom to go with. Does it use original steering column etc or what??? (sorry about teh off topic)
#11
Dr Terry
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Posted 19 May 2006 - 03:40 PM
Hi Oldn64.
What are you upgrading the master cyl to ? The Torana already has a dual circuit 1" bore M/Cyl.
Dr Terry.
What are you upgrading the master cyl to ? The Torana already has a dual circuit 1" bore M/Cyl.
Dr Terry.
#12
_Oldn64_
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Posted 19 May 2006 - 03:48 PM
As I understand it most toranas run a 15/16" master not teh 1" master. I am runnign the VT master but as I have had it explained to me you require the vt master to be able to displace the enough fluid so that the caliper performs correctly. I am only going off the advise and recommendations of my brake specialist, as he has stated it will not be much better with a early 1" master or 15/16" master. I must use a vt master.Hi Oldn64.
What are you upgrading the master cyl to ? The Torana already has a dual circuit 1" bore M/Cyl.
Dr Terry.
Cheers
#13
hatchssv8
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Posted 19 May 2006 - 03:50 PM
Hey Oldn64,
I agree with your comments re the Hoppers kit. And yes it is possible to massage the wishbones to accomodate the VT caliper. Hope all goes well with the rest of it. Oh.....PM sent
Cheers, Max
I agree with your comments re the Hoppers kit. And yes it is possible to massage the wishbones to accomodate the VT caliper. Hope all goes well with the rest of it. Oh.....PM sent
Cheers, Max
#14
dattoman
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Posted 19 May 2006 - 09:08 PM
If you bought a kit from Hoppers and it didn't come with the cert you can contact Peter, quote your receipt # and he will post you oneRequest : Can anyone post a copy of this engineering certificate. We have members who have these kits fitted, there must be a certificate around here somewhere.
If you don't have a Hoppers kit of course you can't get his engineering papers as they don't pertain to your conversion
It may use the same components...... but if its not his kit he won't supply his engineering specs
Which is fair enough of course
#15
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Posted 19 May 2006 - 11:06 PM
Depends what model Toranas you're talking about.As I understand it most toranas run a 15/16" master not teh 1" master.Hi Oldn64.
What are you upgrading the master cyl to ? The Torana already has a dual circuit 1" bore M/Cyl.
Dr Terry.
#16
_Sammy_
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Posted 22 May 2006 - 01:42 PM
steering rack is a vk commodore item (i believe vb-vk are all the same) which has been cut down to suit, it came with mounting brackets which i had to weld to the bottom of the crossmember, then the steering column i am using is from a VR commodore, i haven't yet worked out how im connecting the two together as i am not able to weld the steering shafts at all .... v6 conversions (www.v6conversions.com.au) is who supplied the kit, i can't for the life of me remember the price though as it was about 4 yrs ago when i got it.PS: Sammy, you have a rear steering rack, who did the conbversion and how much. I am in process of looking at this but not sure whom to go with. Does it use original steering column etc or what??? (sorry about teh off topic)
i chose this one as it follows the original steering linkage path more closely which i thought would be better for steering geometery and also i have heard other conversions loose steering lock but this one doesn't.
if you are interested to see more details your welcome to email me at sammy @ oldholdens.com ... also pics here of my crossmember ...
http://www.oldholden...rossmember1.php
disregard the pics of the vk steering column, that is old and out of date
after it is more pics of the crossmember which show the mounts for the rack.
#17
_Oldn64_
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Posted 22 May 2006 - 11:13 PM
Yep all is good just confirming where you got it done. I know about Pat's kits. I am using rods racks in qld to fit a VN rack to mine. it is true the rack along the same path as teh original one will improve the geometry over the normal type of front mount conversions.
Just a note, not all rack from VB-VK are the same, the mounting locations change. Not very fun...
Cheers.
PS: Rod actually uses the commo intermediate shaft and the original colmun to mate up, at that point you can choose whether you want commo spline or early holden. very nice conversion. (was your sump modified???)
Just a note, not all rack from VB-VK are the same, the mounting locations change. Not very fun...
Cheers.
PS: Rod actually uses the commo intermediate shaft and the original colmun to mate up, at that point you can choose whether you want commo spline or early holden. very nice conversion. (was your sump modified???)
#18
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Posted 23 May 2006 - 02:31 PM
yeah sump is VERY custom made
one of my works of art hahahahah
its not huge, so i have remote dual oil filters setup along with oil cooler to get some extra capacity. its fairly similar to v6 conversions sumps from what i have seen, i just made it at big as i could fit in the space provided.
one of my works of art
hahahahahits not huge, so i have remote dual oil filters setup along with oil cooler to get some extra capacity. its fairly similar to v6 conversions sumps from what i have seen, i just made it at big as i could fit in the space provided.
#19
hatchssv8
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Posted 24 May 2006 - 05:04 PM
If you bought a kit from Hoppers and it didn't come with the cert you can contact Peter, quote your receipt # and he will post you one
If you don't have a Hoppers kit of course you can't get his engineering papers as they don't pertain to your conversion
It may use the same components...... but if its not his kit he won't supply his engineering specs
Which is fair enough of course
Very fair comment indeed. I do not want to copy, use or anything like that, I was just curious what it actually states in the document.
At the end of the day, I believe the report is only supplementary. It is ultimately your engineers signature which makes the brake modification acceptable. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Cheers, Max
#20
_Oldn64_
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Posted 24 May 2006 - 05:09 PM
ROFLMAO, sorry sammy I cannot stop laughing... looks like an alien....yeah sump is VERY custom made
one of my works of art
anyways enough laughing, what sump is that for? seems srange bolt up pattern for a holden 6. Would it not have been better to use a torana or EH sump to get more capacity
Cheers
#21
_jap-xu1_
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Posted 24 May 2006 - 05:31 PM
Ok i had a complete vt setup and a complete vl turbo setup laying around when i did my brake conversion.
I could not get the vt ones to fit, as stated the vt caliper hits the wishbone when the caliper is bolted to the inside of the adapter bracket.
What you need is a disc with less offset that the vt disc(which is what hopper stoppers use) which allows you to bolt the caliper to the outside of the adapter bracket therefor solving your clearance issues
I could not get the vt ones to fit, as stated the vt caliper hits the wishbone when the caliper is bolted to the inside of the adapter bracket.
What you need is a disc with less offset that the vt disc(which is what hopper stoppers use) which allows you to bolt the caliper to the outside of the adapter bracket therefor solving your clearance issues
#22
dattoman
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Posted 24 May 2006 - 08:20 PM
The report doesn't legitemise the conversionIf you bought a kit from Hoppers and it didn't come with the cert you can contact Peter, quote your receipt # and he will post you one
If you don't have a Hoppers kit of course you can't get his engineering papers as they don't pertain to your conversion
It may use the same components...... but if its not his kit he won't supply his engineering specs
Which is fair enough of course
Very fair comment indeed. I do not want to copy, use or anything like that, I was just curious what it actually states in the document.
At the end of the day, I believe the report is only supplementary. It is ultimately your engineers signature which makes the brake modification acceptable. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Cheers, Max
It only provides information to engineers and rego authorities about the strength of the components
Namely the brackets
In theory DBA and PBR have already ADR tested their products to death so the only factor in question is really the bracket strength
Thats what the report provides
It never states that fitting the kit provides you with a legal conversion
Its up to you to seek permit/compliance with your own registration authorities
At least thats the way I read it
#23
_Sammy_
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Posted 25 May 2006 - 02:50 PM
oldn, the sump is for a V6 in a FB .... hense its stumpy size
as for the brake doco, it pretty much is a diary of how they went about testing the brackets, set up a dummy front end and used all this gear to put measured pressure onto the brackets to the point where they cracked, and recorded all this in the doco.
basically what you would have to do if you wanted to engineer your own bracket for a brake conversion if you made it yourself.
as for the brake doco, it pretty much is a diary of how they went about testing the brackets, set up a dummy front end and used all this gear to put measured pressure onto the brackets to the point where they cracked, and recorded all this in the doco.
basically what you would have to do if you wanted to engineer your own bracket for a brake conversion if you made it yourself.
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