hi, just wondering if you torana guys can help me out..
i have a vk holden with a 186 at the moment and just wondering if i put a 149 head on the 186 will this boost compression? ive been told it will give me less power?
and pretty much is it worth it? or should i just chuck a 186 ported head back on (ill have to get it ported) currently has 202 head on it.
thanks you guys!
i hope to own a torana in the future (or atleast a sunbird replica lol
cheers, mike
186 wise guys
Started by
_vk_agent_orange_
, Jun 08 2011 09:48 AM
39 replies to this topic
#2
FastEHHolden
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Posted 08 June 2011 - 03:22 PM
yes compression will go up....but a 149 head will need some serious port work....its a closed chamber head...a stock 186 is an open chamber and will work better with the bigger bore. Your comp ratio will not change if you go from your current 202 head to a 186 head.
Since you dont have a worked head and would have to spend money on a one....I would:
a.) mill a 186 head, fit bigger valves and port
b.) fit bigger valves and port a 149/161 closed chamber head or
c.) track down a closed chamber YT head
Since you dont have a worked head and would have to spend money on a one....I would:
a.) mill a 186 head, fit bigger valves and port
b.) fit bigger valves and port a 149/161 closed chamber head or
c.) track down a closed chamber YT head
Edited by FastEHHolden, 08 June 2011 - 03:23 PM.
#3
_rob350hatch_
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Posted 08 June 2011 - 05:51 PM
i think option b and turn it into a 12 port while your at it .149 would be the best starting point.i know of a methanol 186 with a 12 port 149 head that used to flog the v8s at the speedway at liverpool in the 70s in an eh holden.the motor still exists to this day.
#4
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Posted 08 June 2011 - 07:07 PM
thanks you guys.
i thought its best to plan the build before i start , but there is no information about a 149 head on 186.
are 202 valves bigger than 149? if so i would not mind putting them in the 149.....
thanks mike
i thought its best to plan the build before i start , but there is no information about a 149 head on 186.
are 202 valves bigger than 149? if so i would not mind putting them in the 149.....
thanks mike
#5
FastEHHolden
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Posted 08 June 2011 - 07:32 PM
you can fit 1.6 and 1.4 inch valves....obviously you will need seats cut to fit but it will be advantageous to fit hardened inserts to the seat...at least to the exhaust to prevent valve seat recession.
#6
_rob350hatch_
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Posted 10 June 2011 - 07:50 AM
i have a 186s going to get the 149 and 12 port treatment soon.its going in my 2 door t/a turned lj.
the bloke building it has been doing it most of his life and he recommends this combo with triples .
he built one for my mate for his lc gtr it is a weapon.
the bloke building it has been doing it most of his life and he recommends this combo with triples .
he built one for my mate for his lc gtr it is a weapon.
#7
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Posted 10 June 2011 - 11:01 AM
i have a 186s going to get the 149 and 12 port treatment soon.its going in my 2 door t/a turned lj.
the bloke building it has been doing it most of his life and he recommends this combo with triples .
he built one for my mate for his lc gtr it is a weapon.
sweet! this is the first time i have ever heard of another one been done!
do you have any links or photos of some of the motors he has built?
cheers mike
#8
Balfizar
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Posted 10 June 2011 - 01:01 PM
Never heard of a 186 in a VK, even export!!!!
My options would be to put a Black 202 back in it and atart from there:-
an L14 or an LL9
there is no substitue for cubic inches and a 202 gives you a lot more options.
Cheers
Balfizar
My options would be to put a Black 202 back in it and atart from there:-
an L14 or an LL9
there is no substitue for cubic inches and a 202 gives you a lot more options.
Cheers
Balfizar
#9
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Posted 10 June 2011 - 01:17 PM
every one tells me that the 186 is the beter motor than 202 and i have had no trouble with the 186 but plenty of trouble with the 202s . they just dont seem as smoth as the 186(thats my opinion though).
wouldnt mind trying the black fuel injected engine one day
the 149 head will have dual xa falcon strongburg carbs aswell
i am running one at the moment , heaps more grunt than before the jet size is 6.7 going to try the 7.2 tomorrow but i think it will drown the motor.
oh my vk was an old 4 cyl , converted 6 cyl,gear box and diff in 1992
wouldnt mind trying the black fuel injected engine one day
the 149 head will have dual xa falcon strongburg carbs aswell
i am running one at the moment , heaps more grunt than before the jet size is 6.7 going to try the 7.2 tomorrow but i think it will drown the motor.
oh my vk was an old 4 cyl , converted 6 cyl,gear box and diff in 1992
Edited by vk_agent_orange, 10 June 2011 - 01:19 PM.
#10
yel327
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Posted 10 June 2011 - 02:15 PM
thanks you guys.
i thought its best to plan the build before i start , but there is no information about a 149 head on 186.
are 202 valves bigger than 149? if so i would not mind putting them in the 149.....
thanks mike
There is HEAPS on info around on 149-161 heads on a 186 (and 202). They are called XU-1 engines (or thereabouts).
Serioulsy though, we all know that the easiest way to make more power is to stroke it, everyone does it 304/308 to 350, 304/308 to 327-300 etc. A 186 is no different. However GMH already did it for you, they built a 202.
#11
_rob350hatch_
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Posted 10 June 2011 - 02:48 PM
my 186s is in an lh and another hatch i sold recently had a 186 in it .a lot of time has passed for things to be not how they should be.Never heard of a 186 in a VK, even export!!!!
My options would be to put a Black 202 back in it and atart from there:-
an L14 or an LL9
there is no substitue for cubic inches and a 202 gives you a lot more options.
Cheers
Balfizar
ill try to get some pics of the methanol motor and the one in the lc.
on 202's as a youngster back in 1989 i spent several weeks pay on my 202 to no avail.my friends "stock" with extractors 173 vh 5 speed used to shit all over me.out on ridge road at oakdale where you could stupidly wind them out till they could go no faster and for what seemed like an eternity as the road was so long youd get another 5 or so kph.but you never got over 170 that was as fast as they would go.cant believe how dumb we were.but we pushed our holden sixes to the limit.we thought they were just it.lol
#12
_vk_agent_orange_
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Posted 10 June 2011 - 03:06 PM
hey 202 guys each to their own right? i prefer a 186 over 202 plus my 186 has only done 80thou ks on a complete rebuilt motor thats half the reason im trying to get more power out of it ok cheers i will try and search for the xu-1
haha owned an ex cop car once 3.8 v6 manual vp only thiing it was good for was donuts though ,something about those
motors that dont agree with me...think its the v haha
would be open to using a black 202 block with 149 head later on ... the only trouble is finding a good block to start of with...
haha owned an ex cop car once 3.8 v6 manual vp only thiing it was good for was donuts though ,something about those
motors that dont agree with me...think its the v haha
would be open to using a black 202 block with 149 head later on ... the only trouble is finding a good block to start of with...
Edited by vk_agent_orange, 10 June 2011 - 03:13 PM.
#13
_Quagmire_
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Posted 10 June 2011 - 03:53 PM
stick with the 186
heaps better down low imo
and 16 cubes ain't a massive increase
btw i think one famous race car driver once said he prefered the lc (186) motor to the later ones
heaps better down low imo
and 16 cubes ain't a massive increase
btw i think one famous race car driver once said he prefered the lc (186) motor to the later ones
#14
_vk_agent_orange_
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Posted 10 June 2011 - 04:04 PM
stick with the 186
heaps better down low imo
and 16 cubes ain't a massive increase
btw i think one famous race car driver once said he prefered the lc (186) motor to the later ones
brocky? yea your right, not much difference at all. should i post pictures of the head and motor (when i get the head and manifolds) on this page? or do i have to move it?
cheers
#15
yel327
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Posted 10 June 2011 - 06:16 PM
hey 202 guys each to their own right? i prefer a 186 over 202 plus my 186 has only done 80thou ks on a complete rebuilt motor thats half the reason im trying to get more power out of it ok cheers i will try and search for the xu-1
haha owned an ex cop car once 3.8 v6 manual vp only thiing it was good for was donuts though ,something about those
motors that dont agree with me...think its the v haha
would be open to using a black 202 block with 149 head later on ... the only trouble is finding a good block to start of with...
You wouldn't use a 149 head on a black block, you'd use a blue 173 head. If you wanted to use a 149 head it'd be easier to use a red 202 block with a blue/black crank in it. 149 onto blue/black is possible though with a few water holes in the deck.
#16
_vk_agent_orange_
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Posted 11 June 2011 - 04:28 PM
hi again!!
can any one tell me what diff this is it has codes b76 and 8 stamped on it as well as holden
http://www.trademe.c...px?id=383075550
cheers guys
can any one tell me what diff this is it has codes b76 and 8 stamped on it as well as holden
http://www.trademe.c...px?id=383075550
cheers guys
#17
FastEHHolden
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Posted 11 June 2011 - 07:51 PM
LH-LX Banjo??
#19
Collo
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Posted 11 June 2011 - 08:33 PM
Yeah I thought Torrie too except for the leaf springs. The widened rim looks like a standard torrie rim though.
#20
_Quagmire_
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Posted 11 June 2011 - 08:45 PM
could be a htgk or even ej/h didn't see the rims sorry
#21
S pack
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Posted 11 June 2011 - 09:47 PM
Doesn't really matter what it was originally from does it? After all the seller says it has been shortened to suit a Fraud Escort.
About all its really worth is the Banjo diff and that sounds like it is a single wheeler not a LSD.
About all its really worth is the Banjo diff and that sounds like it is a single wheeler not a LSD.
#22
FastEHHolden
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Posted 11 June 2011 - 10:16 PM
I was looking at the brackets..but top ones are too straight
#23
_vk_agent_orange_
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Posted 12 June 2011 - 09:16 AM
hi again. it is my diff i am selling, i am going to clean it up today to see if i can find any serial numbers and ill post them here. ive had a few txts asking what it is so hence the reason im trying to find out. thanks guys
#24
_Mike73_
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Posted 12 June 2011 - 01:45 PM
stick with the 186
heaps better down low imo
and 16 cubes ain't a massive increase
btw i think one famous race car driver once said he prefered the lc (186) motor to the later ones
brocky? yea your right, not much difference at all. should i post pictures of the head and motor (when i get the head and manifolds) on this page? or do i have to move it?
cheers
Hello there,
I haven't seen anyone ask the most obvious question yet?
For what purpose is this engine used for, freeway, city or country driving!
The use of this vehicle will make all the difference, and the reason 149 heads are not generally used is because as a unmodified version they will fry your pistons from pinging as the compression ratio will be so high!
These heads did look like XU-1 heads I know but if you measure the overall height they are shorter and have a corresponding smaller combustion chamber.
The only thing small combustion chambers were good for when fitted to the engine they were designed for was to raise the compression on smaller bore engines, however if retrofitted to larger 186 and 202 bore engines they raise the compression too much and are not as efficient in their gas flow, because of their restrictive combustion area around the valves.
Very high compression engine may be used in Speedway but these often were rough running engines that tended to send a hammering force through the drive line, and not smooth as you say your 186 is currently.
I too always preferred 186 and even built my JL 202 into a 186 by adding a 173 blue crank, the main problem with the 202 was that Holden did not add to the cranklshaft weight when the stroked the previous 186 to 202, with knife edge crank options available these days this problem should be solvable, I will be trying this with my next engine build.
If you want to maintain a relative smooth running 186 engine, fit a relatively small cam ( 23/ 65 perhaps ) have it balanced, run a standard weight flywheel, good inlet and exhausting and a good head with large valves and double valve springs ( have seen single valve springs used and the markings in the tops of the pistons too )
Blue/ black type rods are an advantage too, but the standard ones will do as you don't want to dismantle your engine.
You have given us very little to work with, for instance is it a standard 186 head you have now, or have you fitted the 12 port Blue/ black to your 186, if so adding large valves may be out of the question.
If you stick to a 186 or 202 head this is far better and requires no chamber machining to reduce the compression to an acceptable limit. 10:1 should not be exceeded for normal street work.
Don't use a small chamber head without some serious chamber machining.
I have a black 3.3 ( 202) in my old ute this has the heavier crank and it does not have the characteristic 202 vibration that the early ones had with the light 149 type design cranks.
Mike
#25
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Posted 12 June 2011 - 04:35 PM
hi,
standard 186 block with a 202 head at the moment . will be used as street car.
if not the 149 head then maybe a high compression 173 head?
im sure i could get it running well with the 149 head ,extractors,twin strongburgs,bigger valves and port work
just have to wait and see i supose
standard 186 block with a 202 head at the moment . will be used as street car.
if not the 149 head then maybe a high compression 173 head?
im sure i could get it running well with the 149 head ,extractors,twin strongburgs,bigger valves and port work
just have to wait and see i supose
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