I'd try to avoid using any solid mounts at all if possible. As the engine rocks the throttle body will move from side to side; there'll be very little vertical movement so you won't need a lot of clearance. A bit more than 5mm would be good though, I'd be looking for between 10 - 15mm. Is it possible to modify the original mounts to allow the engine to sit 5 - 10mm lower? Sump and exhaust clearance would be the limiting factors here I imagine.
12 Port Injection manifold
Started by
_Inj gtr202_
, Jul 13 2011 09:39 PM
116 replies to this topic
#77
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Posted 10 November 2011 - 10:33 AM
I'd try to avoid using any solid mounts at all if possible.
Out of curiosity, why is that?
#78
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Posted 10 November 2011 - 12:43 PM
Don't know if you could use alloy. it would have to be a hi strenth alloy and then you would have to look out for stress fracturers all the time as alloy work hardens causeing cracking and could brake at any time.
#79
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Posted 10 November 2011 - 07:14 PM
Out of curiosity, why is that?
Just to be gentle on the block. The little six block is very very light but a bit fragile and flexy and prone to vibrations. Maybe I'm worrying about nothing but it's certainly nowhere near as stiff as a short, boxy V8 block thats mounted from a full front plate. So I try to be gentle.
#81
_Inj gtr202_
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Posted 11 November 2011 - 01:24 AM
I checked under the sump when I put the motor in and decided it was too close to warrant modifying my engine mounts.
If there turns out to be an issue I think there was about 1" between the sump and cross member (rough guess).
The point of concern is no longer with the throttle body but with the front of the plenum (no.1)
I'm planing on firing it up on Sat if all goes to plan
wish me luck... it's my first attempt at a motor rebuild and I hope it doesn't go bang.
If there turns out to be an issue I think there was about 1" between the sump and cross member (rough guess).
The point of concern is no longer with the throttle body but with the front of the plenum (no.1)
I'm planing on firing it up on Sat if all goes to plan
wish me luck... it's my first attempt at a motor rebuild and I hope it doesn't go bang.
#82
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Posted 11 November 2011 - 06:39 AM
Just remember to get oil pressure up first. we used to take the plugs out and spin it over with the starter till oil pressure came up then we starteed it up.
Did you use any oil and lube on all the bearings and some in the bore when you assembled it.
You should of. we used winds products for all of ours as they where the leader at the time for best engine protection and worked realy well to never blow up an engine in 25years+ of raceing.
To get an idea of if your plenum will hit put a string line acorrs from gaurd to gaurd at the lowest point where it is most likely to hit, Then put plasta sand on the plenum at the height of your clearance. This will give you a real look at how close it is under there when reving the engine. but not too much as it's NEw engine and wont like it too much to start off with.
Hope it all goes well for you and there is no dramers with the new engine. We are all waiting to see how it runs with your home made manifold
(Vidieo would be good)
Did you use any oil and lube on all the bearings and some in the bore when you assembled it.
You should of. we used winds products for all of ours as they where the leader at the time for best engine protection and worked realy well to never blow up an engine in 25years+ of raceing.
To get an idea of if your plenum will hit put a string line acorrs from gaurd to gaurd at the lowest point where it is most likely to hit, Then put plasta sand on the plenum at the height of your clearance. This will give you a real look at how close it is under there when reving the engine. but not too much as it's NEw engine and wont like it too much to start off with.
Hope it all goes well for you and there is no dramers with the new engine. We are all waiting to see how it runs with your home made manifold
(Vidieo would be good)
Edited by lcxu105, 11 November 2011 - 06:39 AM.
#83
_toranarama_
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Posted 11 November 2011 - 08:05 AM
+100 for mad fab skills + intuitive thinking ! 
I've a plan that involves 3 x ' 97 Barina centerpoint injection carbies + custom red six manifold + Microtech
Sort of an old school meets new school idea / look
I've a plan that involves 3 x ' 97 Barina centerpoint injection carbies + custom red six manifold + Microtech
Sort of an old school meets new school idea / look
#84
_Inj gtr202_
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Posted 13 November 2011 - 09:56 AM
Just remember to get oil pressure up first. we used to take the plugs out and spin it over with the starter till oil pressure came up then we starteed it up.
Did you use any oil and lube on all the bearings and some in the bore when you assembled it.
You should of. we used winds products for all of ours as they where the leader at the time for best engine protection and worked realy well to never blow up an engine in 25years+ of raceing.
To get an idea of if your plenum will hit put a string line acorrs from gaurd to gaurd at the lowest point where it is most likely to hit, Then put plasta sand on the plenum at the height of your clearance. This will give you a real look at how close it is under there when reving the engine. but not too much as it's NEw engine and wont like it too much to start off with.
Hope it all goes well for you and there is no dramers with the new engine. We are all waiting to see how it runs with your home made manifold
(Vidieo would be good)
Thanks for the advice mate.
Yes I put the grease that came with the cam on the cam/lifters. Used engine oil on all the bearings and bolt heads. I didn't re-hone the bore as they where pretty good from previous re-build, Rings where about .16" for lower and around .20" for upper so didn't replace them either. Just got new bearings, cam and lifters. + Put in the Cam break in oil.
So as far as I can see once the cam is bedded in I can stand on it, (after tuning).
I gave it a fire up yesterday (sort of)
Got the oil up to about 18psi with the starter motor, put the plugs in, turned on the fuel pumps and the most I got was a bit of a cough. From previous attempts it sounded like I had the dizzy 180 deg out, so quickly flipped the rotor 90 deg and tried again, this time with nothing
. I tried starting it at the end of I LOOONG day putting it all together so I'll spend I bit more time on it and suss out where I got it wrong. Might be just the fact I'm trying to use the tune from the old cam/ induction set up and its just too different to even crank over.btw, any tips for turning over the motor by hand now the radiator and fan is on? my adaptor. I made for the harmonic balance will no longer fit.
#85
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Posted 13 November 2011 - 10:17 AM
Edit ^^^^^^^^^ I turned the Rotor 180 deg, not 90. ... not that much of a numpty. 
#86
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Posted 13 November 2011 - 10:23 AM
Easiest way of setting things up old school way is to turn the motor over by hand,
get the back 2 rockers rocking.
Check the timing mark on the harmonic balancer is TDC "O" mark
Instal dissy with rotor button facing the "I" line mark,
turn the dissy until the points just break open and...
That's 5 degrees advance = Easy eh ?
get the back 2 rockers rocking.
Check the timing mark on the harmonic balancer is TDC "O" mark
Instal dissy with rotor button facing the "I" line mark,
turn the dissy until the points just break open and...
That's 5 degrees advance = Easy eh ?
#87
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Posted 15 November 2011 - 02:28 AM
ITS ALIVE 
Had the timing right the first time. I needed to wait a bit longer for the fuel to make its way through the rail and injectors. I adjusted the TPS and gapped the plugs and it was trying to fire but appeared to be stopping the crank dead in its tracks when it did. Retarded the timing a bit more (I have no idea what its supposed to be set at due to the locked dizzy and computer doing all the spark control) It fired up sweet as.
Ran for 20min at 2,000 RPM ish Oil at 40PSI cold then about 37PSI hot, Temp at 180-190 so all appears to be good
Next is a new 2.5" exhaust and a dyno tune.
Had the timing right the first time. I needed to wait a bit longer for the fuel to make its way through the rail and injectors. I adjusted the TPS and gapped the plugs and it was trying to fire but appeared to be stopping the crank dead in its tracks when it did. Retarded the timing a bit more (I have no idea what its supposed to be set at due to the locked dizzy and computer doing all the spark control) It fired up sweet as.
Ran for 20min at 2,000 RPM ish Oil at 40PSI cold then about 37PSI hot, Temp at 180-190 so all appears to be good
Next is a new 2.5" exhaust and a dyno tune.
#88
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Posted 15 November 2011 - 09:14 AM
Did the fuel system need bleeding?
#89
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Posted 15 November 2011 - 05:49 PM
video time!!!!
#90
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Posted 15 November 2011 - 11:48 PM
Did the fuel system need bleeding?
Probably, all the air would be gone by now tho.
video time!!!!
I'll see what I can muster up. won't be for a week to 2 tho
#91
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Posted 07 December 2011 - 07:54 PM
wheres the vid?????
#92
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Posted 07 December 2011 - 11:42 PM
wheres the vid?????
Goes on the Dyno in the morning.
All stays together I'll film something on the weekend
#93
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Posted 08 December 2011 - 11:37 PM
Didn't start let alone get on the Dyno.
Having problems with the Dizzy/ Timing.
Hopefully it gets sorted soon.
Having problems with the Dizzy/ Timing.
Hopefully it gets sorted soon.
#94
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Posted 12 December 2011 - 07:00 PM
Turns out the ignition module had shat itself.
Starts and runs again, just have to wait for the tuner to be available again.
New exhaust sounds good.
Only thing I would like to do before it goes on the Dyno is get the Timing 100%. I searched the delco hacking web forum and the trick where you bridge 2 pins in the comp diagnostic port didn't seem to work. It's supposed to hold the timing at 10deg BTDC at any rev below 2000RPM. I did the trick and the timing light was still jumping up and down..?
I may post up a new thread....
Starts and runs again, just have to wait for the tuner to be available again.
New exhaust sounds good.
Only thing I would like to do before it goes on the Dyno is get the Timing 100%. I searched the delco hacking web forum and the trick where you bridge 2 pins in the comp diagnostic port didn't seem to work. It's supposed to hold the timing at 10deg BTDC at any rev below 2000RPM. I did the trick and the timing light was still jumping up and down..?
I may post up a new thread....
#95
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Posted 17 December 2011 - 07:44 AM
Just got a call from the Dyno tuner.
It made 153kw at wheels, so pretty pleased with the results.
The old set up made 130kw on the same dyno.
So even if it is a "happy" dyno the results should still have some relevance.
I'll post up some vids most likely in Jan because I'm heading off on my honeymoon on Monday.
Massive thanks to oldjohno for all the flow testing and advise in the early stages of the project.
It made 153kw at wheels, so pretty pleased with the results.
The old set up made 130kw on the same dyno.
So even if it is a "happy" dyno the results should still have some relevance.
I'll post up some vids most likely in Jan because I'm heading off on my honeymoon on Monday.
Massive thanks to oldjohno for all the flow testing and advise in the early stages of the project.
#96
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Posted 17 December 2011 - 07:56 AM
Good stuff man, What was changed from the last setup? just the intake manifold?
And Oldjohno certainly is a helpful fella.
And Oldjohno certainly is a helpful fella.
#97
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Posted 17 December 2011 - 11:10 AM
Good stuff man, What was changed from the last setup? just the intake manifold?
And Oldjohno certainly is a helpful fella.
New head and Cam aswell
#98
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Posted 17 December 2011 - 04:45 PM
Just got a call from the Dyno tuner.
It made 153kw at wheels, so pretty pleased with the results.
Cool. Though I suspect there is more to be had without too much work . What's it like to drive now?
#99
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Posted 18 December 2011 - 07:33 AM
Well done, should be happy with that. 
What are the cam specs for the previous dyno run?
What are the cam specs for the previous dyno run?
#100
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Posted 18 December 2011 - 09:11 AM
Cool. Though I suspect there is more to be had without too much work . What's it like to drive now?
Still very drivable, only thing so far that feels different is the idle is a lot more "choppy" used to smooth out at about 1500 now its more like 1700 before its a smooth idle. I'm guessing the lack of idle control is because I'm not running and AFM or an O2 sensor so no "closed loop".
Doesn't hesitate if you mash your foot from low revs.
Where am I gonna get the extra grunt from? (dyno tuning ain't cheap) 150kw@wheels = 200 rwhp which is up around 250hp @motor (exactly what I was aiming at from the get go)
Tho I'm all ears if you got any more suggestion (as long as it doesn't involve making another manifold...lol)
Well done, should be happy with that.
What are the cam specs for the previous dyno run?
Previous cam was an off the shelf Hyd Crow cam #35604.
Edited by Inj gtr202, 18 December 2011 - 09:22 AM.
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