I have been reading a fair few forums on rebushing the front end in a LX torana. There are a few different opinoins but i havent read much about WHITELINE , are they any good?
What are the best bushes to put in, its mainly gonna be a street driven car but i want to try and get maximum handling and performance i can.
I was also wondering where i can buy the Moog ball joints all the places in town have never heard of them.
Any info would be greatly appreciated
Thanks Brenden
front end bushes
Started by
_brenden83_
, Dec 08 2011 07:44 PM
28 replies to this topic
#2
dattoman
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Posted 08 December 2011 - 07:46 PM
I have a few sets of moogs about to ship
Whiteline/Nolathane/Noltec are all the same company nowdays
But the whiteline bushes would be my choice
Whiteline/Nolathane/Noltec are all the same company nowdays
But the whiteline bushes would be my choice
#3
_toranarama_
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Posted 08 December 2011 - 07:50 PM
DO NOT PUT NOLATHANE (style) BUSHES IN YOUR CAR !
They were crap 30 years ago & still are...
Only good for race style limitations where suspension travel is "low".
Rubber is GOOD.
End of story.
Moog is an American brand as is 777.
They were crap 30 years ago & still are...
Only good for race style limitations where suspension travel is "low".
Rubber is GOOD.
End of story.
Moog is an American brand as is 777.
#4
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Posted 08 December 2011 - 08:44 PM
been fitting superpro bushes lately an i am very impressed. I am about to piss the old red Nolathane ones off in my lx and change to Superpro ones , but we do fit a fair bit of Whiteline stuff and its ok too. Nolathane has developed a very bad reputation for having bushes crumble, I have personally spoke to a rep from Nolathane and he gave me a guarantee that, that will NOT happen to any Nolathane bushes ever again . Still i am skeptical and try to avoid thier stuff.
#5
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Posted 08 December 2011 - 08:52 PM
Red, blue, black, white, yellow. blurple....
They all fail as they do not have the GIVE of rubber ..
I'm not making this up !
I'm also guessing that they can't copy the original bush design (with their product) as this would infringe a copyright.
Just say that I warned you
They all fail as they do not have the GIVE of rubber ..
I'm not making this up !
I'm also guessing that they can't copy the original bush design (with their product) as this would infringe a copyright.
Just say that I warned you
#6
Stinga
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Posted 08 December 2011 - 08:57 PM
Red, blue, black, white, yellow. blurple....
They all fail as they do not have the GIVE of rubber ..
I'm not making this up !
I'm also guessing that they can't copy the original bush design (with their product) as this would infringe a copyright.
Just say that I warned you
isnt the whole point of them, that they dont have the "GIVE" of rubber??
#7
_toranarama_
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Posted 08 December 2011 - 09:03 PM
Basically because they are stiff with very little give, they tear themselves apart !
As in LCAs, Wishbones, Trailing arms etc...
Ok for front & rear swaybars & the vertical mounts where they just slide/pivot
but not where crush tubes etc are involved...
I'm surprised there isn't a "sticky' pertaining to this to stop people wasting their money (sigh...)
As previously stated - Only good for track application where VERY LITTLE travel is involved
As in LCAs, Wishbones, Trailing arms etc...
Ok for front & rear swaybars & the vertical mounts where they just slide/pivot
but not where crush tubes etc are involved...
I'm surprised there isn't a "sticky' pertaining to this to stop people wasting their money (sigh...)
As previously stated - Only good for track application where VERY LITTLE travel is involved
Edited by toranarama, 08 December 2011 - 09:04 PM.
#8
ls2lxhatch
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Posted 09 December 2011 - 01:18 AM
In my opinion SuperPro are the best of the poly bushes. The steel shells on the bushes are machined which should give more consisant fit compared to the pressed shell bushes. SuperPro bushes come in a range of hardness's depending on your applciation. For the Torana front suspension they have three different hardness combinations for comfort, sports or race.
I had my front suspension rebuilt in the late 80's with all rubber bushes except for the rear lower bush which was a SuperPro bush. I also fitted SuperPro k-frame insulators at the same time. The car was my daily driver for 10-15 years with regular country trips over some very poor bitumen and gravel roads.
When I pulled the suspension down a couple of years ago all the rubbers where worn but the SuperPro bushes were as new. The k-frame bushes were also as new.
I know someone who fitted the Rare Spares rubber k-frame bushes last year and they have split.
I had my front suspension rebuilt in the late 80's with all rubber bushes except for the rear lower bush which was a SuperPro bush. I also fitted SuperPro k-frame insulators at the same time. The car was my daily driver for 10-15 years with regular country trips over some very poor bitumen and gravel roads.
When I pulled the suspension down a couple of years ago all the rubbers where worn but the SuperPro bushes were as new. The k-frame bushes were also as new.
I know someone who fitted the Rare Spares rubber k-frame bushes last year and they have split.
Edited by ls2lxhatch, 09 December 2011 - 01:19 AM.
#9
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Posted 09 December 2011 - 06:13 AM
The reason these bushes have failed in the past is usually because of the manufacturing process. Often some of these bushes crumble without being driven on or only after driving short periods of time. I once fitted new nolathane castor bushes to a xf falcon and they crunbled and fell out by the following day. Put in another set of poly bushes (not Nolathane) and no problems since. I have been doing suspensions for a long time now and i have seen alot (and i mean alot) of crumbled bushes but none of them could deter me from using GOOD quality poly bushes correctly installed.
#10
Orange SS
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Posted 09 December 2011 - 08:21 AM
I removed aftermarket bushes from my LX a couple years ago. While they still looked brand new - they squeaked at every bump and had actually worn out the metal in the lower control arms as the plastic seems to last longer than the steel. I replaced with new rubber bushes and have no squeaks or noise whatsoever, and over little bumps it make a slight difference to comfort in a good way. I dont know what brand buses had been in there - but can recommend standard rubber after my experience.
I would think a harder compound may not flex as much and may give better handeling, but the rubber seemed to cushion the ride in my car.
I would think a harder compound may not flex as much and may give better handeling, but the rubber seemed to cushion the ride in my car.
#11
_glenn l_
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Posted 09 December 2011 - 08:57 AM
this is just my 2 cents, and my expirence in the suspension game fro the last 15 years. polyurethane bushes has come a long way since nolathane released the years ago. nolathane and whiteline are the same bushes out of the same factory, just a different color, and in my opinion altho they arnt as hard as they werem they are still on the hard side. superpro bushes are very similar in compliance to rubber bushes (not hard). the only rubber bushes i would recomend are the pedders ones as they are a far better product than the mackay product. i have fitted the pedders bushes to cars over 10 years ago and there still in service today, from a work horse hq-wb utes to stock toranas, where as the mackay bushes sh1t them selfs with in 12 months. only problem is pedders only make the upper and lower control arms and rear trailing arm bushes in rubber, no other bushes for toranas.
Edited by glenn l, 09 December 2011 - 08:57 AM.
#12
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#13
_brenden83_
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Posted 11 December 2011 - 06:51 PM
Ok thanks everyone on the info, and dattoman if possible i am interested in buying the Moog ball joints if you have enough.
Thanks Brenden
Thanks Brenden
#14
orangeLJ
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Posted 16 December 2011 - 06:28 AM
I fitted nolathane to my lj eight years or so ago, recently pulled it down for a repaint and all the bushes are still perfect.....
Only had minor squeaks, bit of grease always fixed that.
Just remember, they give you that big thing of greasr for a reason, use it well and you wont have squeaks
Id take nolathane with a firm ride over rubber anyday, the whole point, as said above, is less give for more consistent handling characteristics, track only? what horseshit.
Only had minor squeaks, bit of grease always fixed that.
Just remember, they give you that big thing of greasr for a reason, use it well and you wont have squeaks
Id take nolathane with a firm ride over rubber anyday, the whole point, as said above, is less give for more consistent handling characteristics, track only? what horseshit.
#15
_nolathane_
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Posted 20 December 2011 - 10:13 AM
Hi All,
Please understand that Nolathane has been around for over 25 years and in the past 5 years has advanced significantly with formulation, designs and lubricant. We like to draw the analogy of mobile phone advancement over the past 10 years how far they have come (Nokia 5110 to an iPhone 4S) and believe material technology, advanced testing and designs means our industry and product has advanced in the same way. In fact, Nolathane is set to announce a LIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY in the new year, thats how far the product has come and how confident we are in the Nolathane offering today.
We are also at a softer durometer than many years back but in the case of the Torana we offer two types of rear trailing arm bushings in the softer standard Duro or the competition harder Duro as many people do not want the movement of rubber as it will let things come out of alignmenmt when taking up the deflection of the bushing.
Click this link to view the parts we offer for LC-LJ and the two offerings of rear trailing arm bushings.
http://www.nolathane...vehicle=1969-74
Please understand that Nolathane has been around for over 25 years and in the past 5 years has advanced significantly with formulation, designs and lubricant. We like to draw the analogy of mobile phone advancement over the past 10 years how far they have come (Nokia 5110 to an iPhone 4S) and believe material technology, advanced testing and designs means our industry and product has advanced in the same way. In fact, Nolathane is set to announce a LIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY in the new year, thats how far the product has come and how confident we are in the Nolathane offering today.
We are also at a softer durometer than many years back but in the case of the Torana we offer two types of rear trailing arm bushings in the softer standard Duro or the competition harder Duro as many people do not want the movement of rubber as it will let things come out of alignmenmt when taking up the deflection of the bushing.
Click this link to view the parts we offer for LC-LJ and the two offerings of rear trailing arm bushings.
http://www.nolathane...vehicle=1969-74
Edited by nolathane, 20 December 2011 - 10:14 AM.
#16
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Posted 20 December 2011 - 12:53 PM
To be fair , i should add that the xf falcon bushes that fell to bits the day after fitment in my post above was a several years ago, and we have fitted plenty of the Nolathane product over the last few years without any failures.
#17
Toranamat69
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Posted 20 December 2011 - 01:10 PM
That is not what experiences posted on this forum support - infact they support the opposite that your product has gone downhill in the past 5 years.
Sorry but i find it hard to believe the reason you now offer a lifetime warranty is because your product improved, I would believe it is because you now buy them so cheap from overseas that you don't care if you have to replace them 10 times under warranty as you don't cop the fee for labour for changing the part.
Why don't you share with us where they are now made.
Any suspension shop that knows their salt would not be recommending anything but rubber for the rear trailing arm bushes. Nuf said there.
Sorry but i find it hard to believe the reason you now offer a lifetime warranty is because your product improved, I would believe it is because you now buy them so cheap from overseas that you don't care if you have to replace them 10 times under warranty as you don't cop the fee for labour for changing the part.
Why don't you share with us where they are now made.
Any suspension shop that knows their salt would not be recommending anything but rubber for the rear trailing arm bushes. Nuf said there.
#18
_nolathane_
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Posted 20 December 2011 - 01:16 PM
To be fair , i should add that the xf falcon bushes that fell to bits the day after fitment in my post above was a several years ago, and we have fitted plenty of the Nolathane product over the last few years without any failures.
Thanks as this is a great forum thread for feedback and reviews.
All feedback positive or negative is great for us and we use this to keep improving our range from year to year.
#19
hanra
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Posted 20 December 2011 - 03:06 PM
Just on the topic of Nolathane crumbling apart.. My mate fully rebuilt his HQ GTS coupe (bare shell) and had it on the road for about 1000klms before he popped the motor.. whilst working on the car pulling the motor out, he found all but 1 nolathane body mount bushes had collapsed and fallen to bits..? This was last year. They were fitted to the car in 2003.
#20
ls2lxhatch
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Posted 20 December 2011 - 07:45 PM
One theory I have heard is that if you spray acrylic near the Nolathane brand bushes they can absorb the thinners in the air which is the cause of the crumbling.
I do not have any facts to backup this theory but it could help point Nolathane in the right direction to finding the problem.
I do not have any facts to backup this theory but it could help point Nolathane in the right direction to finding the problem.
Edited by ls2lxhatch, 20 December 2011 - 07:47 PM.
#21
_My74LH_
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Posted 06 January 2012 - 06:41 PM
The problem with urethane is that it is susceptible to climate change, when urethane products are produced they go through a curing procedure which involves a controlled environment of humidity and temperature. Unfortunately in our Australian conditions we have high levels of humidity and heat, not so good for urethane.
I deal with Bayer and 99% of our product is some sort of Urethane from 75 sore to 92 sore hardness, What works in Europe falls to bits in Australia, when all else fails we return to rubber full stop.
With a world shortage of rubber, don’t you think if urethane was up to it we would be driving on it, it will never happen . Polyurethane forklift wheels are rated no more than 20kph, this is why you will only see them on Electric Forklifts once they exceed that it’s the end for that wheel , hence the huge electric truck wheel industry in Australia, we all like to speed on the forklift .
You have all seen the urethane that cracks itself to bits this is caused by overheating which dehydrated the urethane, once this happens it becomes hard and any high impact or compression will destroy it.
Rubber all the way for me
I deal with Bayer and 99% of our product is some sort of Urethane from 75 sore to 92 sore hardness, What works in Europe falls to bits in Australia, when all else fails we return to rubber full stop.
With a world shortage of rubber, don’t you think if urethane was up to it we would be driving on it, it will never happen . Polyurethane forklift wheels are rated no more than 20kph, this is why you will only see them on Electric Forklifts once they exceed that it’s the end for that wheel , hence the huge electric truck wheel industry in Australia, we all like to speed on the forklift .
You have all seen the urethane that cracks itself to bits this is caused by overheating which dehydrated the urethane, once this happens it becomes hard and any high impact or compression will destroy it.
Rubber all the way for me
Edited by My74LH, 06 January 2012 - 06:44 PM.
#22
orangeLJ
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Posted 10 January 2012 - 11:55 AM
its all well and good to say that urethane isnt up to the task at the moment, but without some support for continnued innovation, we will never have a product that is.....
Id put money on there being better tech available for forklift tyres, but why develop it, all that would do is kill their ongoing profits from the wearing of traditional rubber tyres.
I still use and recomend nolathane, even having seen failures first hand.
Id put money on there being better tech available for forklift tyres, but why develop it, all that would do is kill their ongoing profits from the wearing of traditional rubber tyres.
I still use and recomend nolathane, even having seen failures first hand.
#23
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Posted 10 January 2012 - 01:44 PM
I doubt there will be significant improvements in fork lift tyre technology in a big hurry for a few reasons:
Forklifts are a load carrying vehicle.
They are a low speed vehicle for safety reasons.
OH&S shoot first and ask questions later in regards to forklift incidents where speeding/overloading is suspected.
Most forklift owners will sack drivers, rather than spend money on things that will allow drivers to speed.
Most owners will not spend more money than they have to on replacement tyres. An expensive tyre can fail just as quickly as a cheap tyre.
Forklifts are a load carrying vehicle.
They are a low speed vehicle for safety reasons.
OH&S shoot first and ask questions later in regards to forklift incidents where speeding/overloading is suspected.
Most forklift owners will sack drivers, rather than spend money on things that will allow drivers to speed.
Most owners will not spend more money than they have to on replacement tyres. An expensive tyre can fail just as quickly as a cheap tyre.
#24
orangeLJ
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Posted 10 January 2012 - 04:23 PM
Chop, I worked for australias largest forklift company (right up to container forks) for 5 years
You are definitely right though, solid rubber tyres are easily damaged by clipping corners, large rocks etc.
99% of forklift drivers speed, unfortunate, but true. Most forklifts could be easily speed limited, but they always opt not to. The quicker they drive, the more they move, the more efficient the whole situation is. But dont ask them to put that on paper! lol.
I suppose I was more talking tyres in general though, passenger, industrial etc etc.
You are definitely right though, solid rubber tyres are easily damaged by clipping corners, large rocks etc.
99% of forklift drivers speed, unfortunate, but true. Most forklifts could be easily speed limited, but they always opt not to. The quicker they drive, the more they move, the more efficient the whole situation is. But dont ask them to put that on paper! lol.
I suppose I was more talking tyres in general though, passenger, industrial etc etc.
#25
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Posted 10 January 2012 - 06:12 PM
I have a forklift licence and have spent 30 years in the tyre industry. The only sector that does product improvement on any real scale is with passenger car tyres. Truck and light truck simply use the technology borrowed from pasenger car stuff. There isn't all that much demand for new tyre tech in race cars, as most race tyres are made for catagories that use a control tyre. No competition there.
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