Javascript Disabled Detected

You currently have javascript disabled. Several functions may not work. Please re-enable javascript to access full functionality.

KPI variations in ball joint Holdens.

Started by wot179 , Dec 31 2011 10:42 AM

Prev

Next

Please log in to reply

62 replies to this topic

#26 yel327

Oh My, Don't you post alot

Members
13,088 posts

Joined: 10-February 08

Posted 02 January 2012 - 04:12 PM

HK -HG stubs are the same as HQ as well.

Back to top

#27 _CHOPPER_

Guests

Posted 02 January 2012 - 06:16 PM

Ok, this is from the LC Torana and HQ GMH workshop manuals.

LC Torana (6cyl) and therefore LJ Torana (6cyl) LH & LX + UC? bare disc and drum stubs. SAI (KPI) = 9deg 0' +/- 0deg 10'
HQ Holden and therefore HJ and HX + HZ? bare disc and drum stubs. SAI (KPI) = 7deg 30' +/- 0deg 10'

And those figures were quoted with what camber figure?

Back to top

#28 S pack

Scrivet Counter

Members
15,541 posts

Name:Dave
Location:Luggage Point
Car:73 LJ
Joined: 25-January 10

Posted 02 January 2012 - 07:11 PM

And those figures were quoted with what camber figure?

None, those specs are for the stub axles as manufactured by GMH.

Back to top

#29 _CHOPPER_

Guests

Posted 03 January 2012 - 06:08 PM

An SAI (KPI) figure is only valid at the specified camber angle. So on it's own, it's as good as tits on a bull.

Back to top

#30 dattoman

Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?

Administrators
16,471 posts

Name:Neil
Location:Perth Western Australia
Car:LX SS , 76 Cadillac , 3 x dattos
Joined: 04-February 07

Posted 03 January 2012 - 06:45 PM

OK lets forget all the mumbo jumbo and dark wheel aligning secrets for a moment

The stub itself has an angle to it
I think we have established H series are 7 and Toranas are 9 degrees
I think thats the point of the original questions

Probably so he can decide which stub to use to replace maybe some drum stubs on a H series with some disc stubs and keep the same original angle without having to confuse a wheel aligner

Right wot ?

Back to top

#31 wot179

Green Eggs and Spam

Members
6,784 posts

Name:Jesus Bloody Christ
Location:Sunny Santa Maria
Car:Goon
Joined: 06-February 09

Posted 03 January 2012 - 06:57 PM

Thank you Datto.

I have LH stubs and brakes on my HR (I think)

I installed them years ago and cant remember if I used HR stubs or Torana stubs with the LH brakes when I fitted them up,so Im pulling it to bits to see what I did.

Another reason for asking is Hoppers stoppers offer a conversion using drum brake stubs.

I am guessing it matters if they are HR or Torana,so I thought (incorrectly) that it would be a simple question with a simple answer,that may have some practical

importance to other forum members.

Thanks eveyone for your input,mods feel free to lock this thread as the question has been answered.

Back to top

#32 _HQ SS_

Guests

Posted 05 January 2012 - 08:41 AM

To check if they are HR stubs check the hub nut size HR and earlier stubs have a smaller hub nut than the later models.
If you have a look at this picture
http://gallery.oldho... axles.jpg.html
you will see what I mean.
I do not want confuse things but I was under the impression that HR stubs were different to all the other stubs.
I would be interested if anyone does have a KPI figure for them.
Cheers Paul.

Back to top

#33 _CHOPPER_

Guests

Posted 05 January 2012 - 09:39 AM

The nut size may be different, but they all use the same bearing kit. Is that the only difference, or is there other differences as well? I have a pair of HR stub axles, but I've never removed the hubs so I can't confirm.

Back to top

#34 _HQ SS_

Guests

Posted 05 January 2012 - 11:44 AM

i know the SAI is 5 3/4 +_ 1/2 but other than a obvious difference in the top section from KPI change.
They are a slightly different shape in the up right section (more straight than curved) and the holes for the steering arms are threaded.
The later models use a nut and bolt so are not threaded.
I am told the nut thread area for the wheel bearing was increased due to the unfortunate problem that had shown up in racing with the
stub snapping at the thread.
Which let the wheel and drum assy come off.
True or not no idea but I have seen a fair few old pictures of three wheeled old Holden's.
Somewhere there is a thread trying to ID stubs by cast number which may have a bit more related information on it about stubs but I am not
sure where it is now.
Cheers Paul.

Back to top

#35 _CHOPPER_

Guests

Posted 05 January 2012 - 11:50 AM

Interesting. I must check these things out one day.

Back to top

#36 ls2lxhatch

Members
5,332 posts

Location:Perth
Car:LX Hatch
Joined: 29-May 06

Posted 05 January 2012 - 11:58 AM

The stub itself has an angle to it
I think we have established H series are 7 and Toranas are 9 degrees

There are several posts stating 7.5 for H series and there are a couple with 8.7 for the Torana.

I for one am still confused as to what the answer is. It would make a significant difference to those contemplating fitting HQ stubs on the Torana.

Back to top

#37 _CHOPPER_

Guests

Posted 05 January 2012 - 12:09 PM

Without actually taking a car for an alignment (which will only tell you what the included angle of those particular stubs is now, not what it was when the stubs were new) I can only go by what my most accurate sources of data tell me. What they have told me is that it is highly likely that LC-UC Torana stubs have an included angle of 8.7 degrees ( 8 degrees 42') from the factory. I'll see what I can dig up about other stubs on the weekend, as I won't have spare time before that. It's interesting that the HR may have a different SAI to the HQ stubs, but they also had a lot more positive camber from the factory if I recall correctly.

Back to top

#38 _CHOPPER_

Guests

Posted 05 January 2012 - 02:06 PM

After viewing the following image, it appears the HR stub axle has an included angle of 7.5 degrees (7 degrees 30').

Posted Image

Does anybody else have diagrams similar to this for LH-LJ, LH-UC, HK-HG or HQ-WB? They would be very handy for comparisons sake.

Back to top

#39 _HQ SS_

Guests

Posted 05 January 2012 - 08:36 PM

Here are HK and HQ

Posted Image

HK 7 degrees 31"
HQ 7 degrees 30"
So the same basic included angle but HR disc stubs had the bearing center line 1 inch down,
so fitting HK-HQ-WB stubs lowers your HR 1 inch,
Cheers Paul.

Back to top

#40 wot179

Green Eggs and Spam

Members
6,784 posts

Name:Jesus Bloody Christ
Location:Sunny Santa Maria
Car:Goon
Joined: 06-February 09

Posted 05 January 2012 - 09:12 PM

This is great stuff.

All we need now are the Torana drawings and the set will be complete.

Back to top

#41 _CHOPPER_

Guests

Posted 05 January 2012 - 09:12 PM

Brilliant! I just need those pages for the two Torana flavours and I'll be as happy as a pig in shit. It was mainly the dimensions of the control and steering arms I was after, but the stub axle info is a bonus.

Back to top

#42 TerrA LX

Fulcrum Fixture

Members
14,241 posts

Location:Sid 'n' knee
Joined: 31-May 06

Posted 05 January 2012 - 09:14 PM

Fantastic.

Back to top

#43 A9X

A fortunate run

Members
5,024 posts

Name:Welby
Location:Perth
Joined: 09-November 05

View Garage

Posted 05 January 2012 - 09:15 PM

love to see one of these on the rts lx or a9x or even uc

Back to top

#44 _CHOPPER_

Guests

Posted 05 January 2012 - 09:39 PM

I think it would be nice to see the difference betwen the RTS and non RTS Torries. Just to see how far offset the top ball joint really is.

Back to top

#45 _CHOPPER_

Guests

Posted 05 January 2012 - 09:59 PM

Also it would be nice to see the images for the HZ-WB RTS front end.

Back to top

#46 dattoman

Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?

Administrators
16,471 posts

Name:Neil
Location:Perth Western Australia
Car:LX SS , 76 Cadillac , 3 x dattos
Joined: 04-February 07

Posted 05 January 2012 - 10:12 PM

This is great stuff.

All we need now are the Torana drawings and the set will be complete.

And you wanted the thread closed... sheesh

Back to top

#47 _CHOPPER_

Guests

Posted 05 January 2012 - 10:15 PM

He used to be indecisive, but now he's not so sure.

Back to top

#48 S pack

Scrivet Counter

Members
15,541 posts

Name:Dave
Location:Luggage Point
Car:73 LJ
Joined: 25-January 10

Posted 05 January 2012 - 10:24 PM

LC 6cyl Torana

Edit: Can anyone else read the dimensions? I might have to do a zoom scan or something.

Posted Image

Edited by S pack, 05 January 2012 - 10:27 PM.

Back to top

#49 _HQ SS_

Guests

Posted 05 January 2012 - 10:32 PM

i Have the HZ sup and also a LH workshop manual and nether have these images unfortunately.
My understanding with late HX / HZ RTS is that all the arms and stubs are the same it is the chassis that gives the changes.
in geometry.
Cheers Paul.

Back to top

#50 S pack

Scrivet Counter

Members
15,541 posts

Name:Dave
Location:Luggage Point
Car:73 LJ
Joined: 25-January 10

Posted 05 January 2012 - 10:54 PM

i Have the HZ sup and also a LH workshop manual and nether have these images unfortunately.
My understanding with late HX / HZ RTS is that all the arms and stubs are the same it is the chassis that gives the changes.
in geometry.
Cheers Paul.

Hi Paul

Makes sense as the HZ supplement (highly likely WB will be the same) was only for changes that are specific to that model, otherwise all other servicing/repair info is the same as contained in the HQ workshop manuals.