I was just thinking today, the cars that we consider to be classics today, are mainly cars from the 70's such as A9X or XU1 Toranas, GT Falcons, Chargers, Monaros etc.
But what will be the classic muscle cars in like 20-30 years (when Toranas are no longer just 'classic', but vintage..).
I dont think there are any cars from the 80's or 90's that i would ever consider classic muscle. I'd like to see the day a VN commodore or a EA Falcon is called a classic.
Sure, we've got the new Monaros, and new GT Falcons. But i just dont see them with anywhere near the respect in 30 years of what an A9X, XU1 or XYGT has now (and pretty much ALWAYS has had, since the day it rolled off the line).
Even the most standard 'S' Toranas are classics. Could a standard 80's, 90's or 00's Commo or Falcon ever be classic.
Sorry bout all the rambling, just bored.
Are Toranas the end of the 'Classic Car'?
Started by
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, Jun 02 2006 06:52 PM
36 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 02 June 2006 - 06:57 PM
well the way I see it, the ol 32s etc are called hot rods, toranas are called muscle, new age cars should be called "Retro" or something
#3
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Posted 02 June 2006 - 07:02 PM
If we end up driving around in electric or hybrid cars, i think you might look back most fondly on a VN or EA. 
We will have to see where the technology goes. I think the time makes the old cars.
Steve
We will have to see where the technology goes. I think the time makes the old cars.
Steve
Edited by 73LJWhiteSL, 02 June 2006 - 07:02 PM.
#4
makka
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Posted 02 June 2006 - 08:02 PM
i see early commodores as "classic" cars, who wouln't want a HDT or Brock commodore, same goes for a VN group A, or a VP GTS, mmmmm!
#5
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Posted 02 June 2006 - 08:23 PM
How about a fully sic Hyundai Excel 1.6L hahaha
No Brock Commdores or XR8 Falcons are the ones i think
No Brock Commdores or XR8 Falcons are the ones i think
#6
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Posted 02 June 2006 - 09:00 PM
I agree with Steve, if in the future we all relegated to driving hybrid george jetson mock ups, then maybe the VN and the EA will be looked upon fondly.
However, to me right now, there are just throw away consumer items from the 80s with no particular endearing features. Unfortunately Id have to say the same about all Commodores, VB to Vwhatever.....Brock commodores....I suppose its personal taste......but the last thing I'd want to do is punce around in a car dressed up to look like a race car.........and pretend Im a racing driver or something.
What we have here is really unprecedented in Australian motoring. If you go back to when the torry was made.....say 76.... and think back 30 years from then.......there was no stream of young people looking for cars from the 1940s to drive around in or even cars from that era on the road.
I think in another 30years time, the classics will be 60year old torries.
However, to me right now, there are just throw away consumer items from the 80s with no particular endearing features. Unfortunately Id have to say the same about all Commodores, VB to Vwhatever.....Brock commodores....I suppose its personal taste......but the last thing I'd want to do is punce around in a car dressed up to look like a race car.........and pretend Im a racing driver or something.
What we have here is really unprecedented in Australian motoring. If you go back to when the torry was made.....say 76.... and think back 30 years from then.......there was no stream of young people looking for cars from the 1940s to drive around in or even cars from that era on the road.
I think in another 30years time, the classics will be 60year old torries.
#7
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Posted 02 June 2006 - 09:50 PM
The day I consider a commodore a classic is the day I give up being a car enthusiast!
#8
antelopeslr5000
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Posted 03 June 2006 - 12:39 AM
I believe some of the Commodores back in the early 80's (Group C era) are classics i.e. A VH Group 3 Commodore.
I think the move from Group C to A spelt the end of the 'Classic' era
Remember Plastic ≠ Classic
I think the move from Group C to A spelt the end of the 'Classic' era
Remember Plastic ≠ Classic
#9
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Posted 03 June 2006 - 12:41 AM
I put money on the:-
EA Falcon - Dunno why, EA Sports model was quite nice.
AU Falcon - You either love em or hate em.
VH Commodore - Last of the Group C's.
VL Commodore - Dunno Why (Turbo RB's particularly)
VT Commodore - Classic shape, interior by the same designer as the Torana interior (forget his name), last of the Holden 304.
As for the Jap stuff, the Supra's, 300 ZX and the roundy Skylines will prolly be collectables. Oh, and my faves, the old Honda Preludes with the fairly straight lines.
Having said that, the way they are so much plastic, unless spares are available long into the future, I can't see them lasting 30 years.
I find historic houses more interesting, can't see alot of our current housing stock ever being historic, or lasting, a bit like the cars. As always, I expect the best examples will survive.
EA Falcon - Dunno why, EA Sports model was quite nice.
AU Falcon - You either love em or hate em.
VH Commodore - Last of the Group C's.
VL Commodore - Dunno Why (Turbo RB's particularly)
VT Commodore - Classic shape, interior by the same designer as the Torana interior (forget his name), last of the Holden 304.
As for the Jap stuff, the Supra's, 300 ZX and the roundy Skylines will prolly be collectables. Oh, and my faves, the old Honda Preludes with the fairly straight lines.
Having said that, the way they are so much plastic, unless spares are available long into the future, I can't see them lasting 30 years.
I find historic houses more interesting, can't see alot of our current housing stock ever being historic, or lasting, a bit like the cars. As always, I expect the best examples will survive.
#10
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Posted 03 June 2006 - 02:05 AM
Why dont poeple like commodores? Is there a reason or just the fact cos a few poeple dont like em a majority takes over and dislikes a commodore cos "my mate said there shit" factor.
Toranas have plenty of plastic but no one seems to mind, Commodres have done just as well as toranas in australian racing and probly evenbetter but for some reason they dont get respect from a alot of poeple that always just say cos there commodres, or there round, or plastic, or there too comman.. NOw is that a real reason why commodores are so shit?
What if Holden never named them commodres and kept the kingswood, premier badge, would they have more respect from us.. After all holden changed shape from early EJ, EH, HR etc to the HT, HK, HG and then to the HQ/WB and we all loved em...
I dont get it, iv still never ever seen anyone with a legitiment excuse as why commodores are so shit..
On the classic topic, i think that VH SS, VK GRP A, VL GRP A, WALKY, VN GRP A are definetly almost classics, give em another decade and they definetly will be a classic..
John
Toranas have plenty of plastic but no one seems to mind, Commodres have done just as well as toranas in australian racing and probly evenbetter but for some reason they dont get respect from a alot of poeple that always just say cos there commodres, or there round, or plastic, or there too comman.. NOw is that a real reason why commodores are so shit?
What if Holden never named them commodres and kept the kingswood, premier badge, would they have more respect from us.. After all holden changed shape from early EJ, EH, HR etc to the HT, HK, HG and then to the HQ/WB and we all loved em...
I dont get it, iv still never ever seen anyone with a legitiment excuse as why commodores are so shit..
On the classic topic, i think that VH SS, VK GRP A, VL GRP A, WALKY, VN GRP A are definetly almost classics, give em another decade and they definetly will be a classic..
John
Edited by TORANASS, 03 June 2006 - 02:06 AM.
#11
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Posted 03 June 2006 - 02:37 AM
I think to use the term classic you would have to extend it to "a classic example of a ................ is" and to be referd to a time of achievment such as having bathurst creed. I dont think enough people follow new cars in production racing to refer to them in the furure as classics but if only for thier styling and as for our commodore/falcon racing these days well there not really cars that we refer to.
if we are around in 50 years you will still refer to a club sport or what have you as a classic.
if we are around in 50 years you will still refer to a club sport or what have you as a classic.
#12
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Posted 03 June 2006 - 08:05 AM
Actually the VN interior was designed by the same dude that designed the Torries, not the VT. Just thought I better add that correction. I like the VN as it was the start of the "World" standards being applied to the Commodores.
My only qualm with the Commodores, particularly the later ones, is that they aren't built as well. High dependence on adhesives, etc to save on costs. Think I've just about reglued all my door belts on the VN. Rubber is just glued to the crimp lock strip.
My only qualm with the Commodores, particularly the later ones, is that they aren't built as well. High dependence on adhesives, etc to save on costs. Think I've just about reglued all my door belts on the VN. Rubber is just glued to the crimp lock strip.
#13
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Posted 03 June 2006 - 08:54 AM
owning torana's and a group A VK I like to think of them all as classic....
#14
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Posted 03 June 2006 - 09:12 AM
TORANASS, please explain to me where there is plastic on my LJ. admittedly there is a bit of bog in the rear quarter, but i cant seem to find any plastic.
RIM
RIM
#15
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Posted 03 June 2006 - 09:39 AM
hey but back in the 70's the torana werent much more than a commadore today the sunbird s sl, well the sunbird aint much of a classic but any way they were just a car then what different to the commodores
#16
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Posted 03 June 2006 - 10:00 AM
Its hard to put a precise meaning on the term "Classic". Means different things
to different people.
If plastic in cars is an indicator, then I guess the australian classic died out with
VB, XD and Magna.
But personally, I think what I term classic muscle car image goes right up
to the likes of Brock VK, XR6/8 ED.
There's something about them that still ties back to muscle machines.
Newer versions dont quite get there IMHO.
Did you ever see the 'History of the GT Falcon'? All good, until they built that
EF thing. Its a fine car, but personally I don't think worthy of the GT label.
It does not exude that muscle image to me. Just slapped on plastic.
(now I'm am confusing myself : slapped on plastic? A9X, SLR.........hmmm)
As for plastic being in cars. Even our oldest examples had tonnes of it.
RIM' your LJ has plastic dash, door trims, seats, carpet, knobs. Plastic piping,
under dash components, engine components, tail lights........
- not having a go at you RIM', making a point...
Were you refering to exterior? ie. bumpers etc? I guess that it why the original
question is so hard to answer eh? Different things to different people!!
Anyhoo, we all love our oldies, and our tastes are different, but we all keep
commin' back to this site!!!
Muscle cars forever!!!
- Leakey
to different people.
If plastic in cars is an indicator, then I guess the australian classic died out with
VB, XD and Magna.
But personally, I think what I term classic muscle car image goes right up
to the likes of Brock VK, XR6/8 ED.
There's something about them that still ties back to muscle machines.
Newer versions dont quite get there IMHO.
Did you ever see the 'History of the GT Falcon'? All good, until they built that
EF thing. Its a fine car, but personally I don't think worthy of the GT label.
It does not exude that muscle image to me. Just slapped on plastic.
(now I'm am confusing myself : slapped on plastic? A9X, SLR.........hmmm)
As for plastic being in cars. Even our oldest examples had tonnes of it.
RIM' your LJ has plastic dash, door trims, seats, carpet, knobs. Plastic piping,
under dash components, engine components, tail lights........
- not having a go at you RIM', making a point...
Were you refering to exterior? ie. bumpers etc? I guess that it why the original
question is so hard to answer eh? Different things to different people!!
Anyhoo, we all love our oldies, and our tastes are different, but we all keep
commin' back to this site!!!
Muscle cars forever!!!
- Leakey
#17
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Posted 03 June 2006 - 10:07 AM
The 70's equivalent of the Comodore was the Kingswood/Premier. The 00's equivalent of the Torana is the Vectra. except Vectra's dont have V8s.
Actually, the above statement is bullshit. There is no equivalent to a Torana.
But you get my drift.
I'm not sure why i don like Commodores, probably just because every other 15 year old DOES Like them. They all want a VL Turbo with 17's...
RIM
Actually, the above statement is bullshit. There is no equivalent to a Torana.
But you get my drift.
I'm not sure why i don like Commodores, probably just because every other 15 year old DOES Like them. They all want a VL Turbo with 17's...
RIM
#18
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Posted 03 June 2006 - 10:22 AM
RIM, a torana isnt just an LJ, its one of MANY toranas.. Ok Ill admit that the LJ doesnt have as much plastic as the LH, LX, UC but you tell me this, WHY IS METAL SO MUCH BETTER THEN PLASTIC specialy when it comes to Interior and cosmetics on the outside..In performance point its not as good as plastic as its much heavier.TORANASS, please explain to me where there is plastic on my LJ. admittedly there is a bit of bog in the rear quarter, but i cant seem to find any plastic.
RIM
Just remember that te A9X's style and body fetures are plastic (or fibreglass same thing) and the A9X is the bigest of all classics.. Whats so much different to VC HDT and an A9X, not much only ones a commodore and the other a torana, both cars have the 308, aussie 4spd and 10bolt sulsbury diff, they both feture plastic(or glass) flares and spoilers so they are much the same in hardware and they both did very well in the racing side. The major differance between the 2 cars was suspension and chassis but the commodore was far more superior in that factor..
John
Edited by TORANASS, 03 June 2006 - 10:23 AM.
#19
_Mondie_
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Posted 03 June 2006 - 11:08 AM
l am tempted by a VK Group A, to me thats a modern classic with racing lineage
#20
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Posted 03 June 2006 - 11:54 AM
VK GRP A is a legend tuff car, not much newer then a torana also, 1977 to 1984 not even a decade..IMHO the VK GRP A is the tuffest looking commodore..K GRP A bluey.
John
John
#21
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Posted 03 June 2006 - 12:08 PM
I reckon the top of the range commodores today wil become classics in years to come! as some have said before they are very desirable among many people, which mean they will be desirable in years to come still. Just because we dont all like them here doesnt mean they arent respected by others
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Posted 03 June 2006 - 12:12 PM
OK, i agree that Late Torries/Early Commos are pretty similar. in fact, my third preference for my first road car was a VH/VK (after a Torana and a HQ Panelvan).
I dont disliek any of the early Commodore GRP A's etc.
RIM
I Add : Plastic is great, when used properly and effectively. I just dont like newer cars (VL >) that have more fibreglass/plastic than metal. I know its a great material for racing bodies.
ie: A9X/SLR/VK GRP A are all road cars based on Race cars (or vice versa), so the bodykits on them is all good.
RIM
I dont disliek any of the early Commodore GRP A's etc.
RIM
I Add : Plastic is great, when used properly and effectively. I just dont like newer cars (VL >) that have more fibreglass/plastic than metal. I know its a great material for racing bodies.
ie: A9X/SLR/VK GRP A are all road cars based on Race cars (or vice versa), so the bodykits on them is all good.
RIM
Edited by RIM-010, 03 June 2006 - 12:20 PM.
#23
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Posted 03 June 2006 - 12:43 PM
I agree, the VC Brock and VK Group A should be considered classics ... I think the Clubsports of today are probably equivalent of the SL/R5000's, probably also worthy of classic status.
I used to own a VN Executive, and now drive a VT Exec(both V6 autos). I reckon the VN was shit, But luv the VT!!!
But weekends are best as I get to take the SL/R out and about ...
I used to own a VN Executive, and now drive a VT Exec(both V6 autos). I reckon the VN was shit, But luv the VT!!!
But weekends are best as I get to take the SL/R out and about ...
#24
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Posted 03 June 2006 - 01:33 PM
I think each generation holds certain models in high esteem. I guess the later models don't feature quite as much due to the changing scene in racing. Bathurst has gone from mini's, monaros and falcons etc to holden and ford V8's only.
For me the early HDT commodores had a flash image, the new monaro was a breath of fresh air as well. The new mini was good as well, took the old shape and made it new again.
I guess I'll just stay living in the past with my LC
For me the early HDT commodores had a flash image, the new monaro was a breath of fresh air as well. The new mini was good as well, took the old shape and made it new again.
I guess I'll just stay living in the past with my LC
#25
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Posted 03 June 2006 - 04:04 PM
IMHO I think classic ended with metal bumper bars, and non retractable seat belts.
cheers julian
cheers julian
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