gday just wondering if any one might have any ideas about a paint problem i am having sprayed the vechile about 4 months ago in acrylic lacqurer and have been having trouble with these small bubbles or blisters about the size of a match head popping up here and there at first just in the crevices and so on but now on the flat surfaces as well there is no moisture behind them and there not humidity blisters
thought it might it may have been bad prep because as i say they were at first only in the crevices
but i sand them out and then in 2 or 3 weeks they might pop up some where else i am thinking its the old paint i have painted over any ideas on how to tackle this problem and what might be the cause
pocock
acrylic paint problem
Started by
_pocock_
, May 15 2012 12:35 PM
48 replies to this topic
#2
_Quagmire_
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Posted 15 May 2012 - 01:18 PM
or you have added to much thinners and it's the solvent boiling out
bad paint normally "spider webs"
in my experience
in all reality you will have to strip it back....apply a sealer/2 pac primer and go again
bad paint normally "spider webs"
in my experience
in all reality you will have to strip it back....apply a sealer/2 pac primer and go again
#3
r2160
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Posted 15 May 2012 - 01:24 PM
My experience is that these could be two things.
1. Humidity blisters: When it was painted, there was moisture coming through the gun or it was too humid the day it was painted.
2. Prep not good enough
I would be going more towards 1.
cheers
Glenn
1. Humidity blisters: When it was painted, there was moisture coming through the gun or it was too humid the day it was painted.
2. Prep not good enough
I would be going more towards 1.
cheers
Glenn
#4
_pocock_
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Posted 15 May 2012 - 01:30 PM
no i dont think it solvent problem i mixed it at the right ratio and sprayed the car correctly
as an old fella advised me many years ago 2 coats rubbed it back with 600 the next day then left it a week or two
then 2 more coats rubbed it back the next day and left it another week or two and repeat the process till you get 6 coats on and 4 of clear lets it dry properly and lets the solvent escape between coats its always worked this is a full respray so big job taking it back to bare metal and starting over again
pocock
as an old fella advised me many years ago 2 coats rubbed it back with 600 the next day then left it a week or two
then 2 more coats rubbed it back the next day and left it another week or two and repeat the process till you get 6 coats on and 4 of clear lets it dry properly and lets the solvent escape between coats its always worked this is a full respray so big job taking it back to bare metal and starting over again
pocock
#5
_Quagmire_
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Posted 15 May 2012 - 01:33 PM
no not bare metal.....just enough to apply a primer...say 600-800
prime/seal sand and top coat
pita but it's the only way i can see you stopping it
prime/seal sand and top coat
pita but it's the only way i can see you stopping it
#6
_pocock_
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Posted 15 May 2012 - 01:36 PM
no i always drain the tank on the compressor and have two water traps in line and one on the gun humidity was aways under 50%
on spray days , usually humidity blisters in my expierence come up in small patches heaps of them and they come an d go these little buggers are single or in pairs
on spray days , usually humidity blisters in my expierence come up in small patches heaps of them and they come an d go these little buggers are single or in pairs
#7
_pocock_
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Posted 15 May 2012 - 01:48 PM
thanks quag , only thing i am thinking, if its a problem with the old paint that i originally sanded primed and top coated
what will stop it coming through the new pimer and top coat its a tricky one in hind sight it should of been striped back to bare metal
epoxy primed, repairs done primed in 2k and top coated because you never know what paints underneath if you havnt done it yourself but as i say to do that now is a big job ,time consuming and also costly
what will stop it coming through the new pimer and top coat its a tricky one in hind sight it should of been striped back to bare metal
epoxy primed, repairs done primed in 2k and top coated because you never know what paints underneath if you havnt done it yourself but as i say to do that now is a big job ,time consuming and also costly
#8
Mort
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Posted 15 May 2012 - 03:53 PM
Have you got any pics of the affected area/s maybe if people can see the problem they will have a better idea of the problem, i know to the average person a bubble is a bubble and a blister is a blister but to the guru painters it will be different.
#9
_pocock_
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Posted 15 May 2012 - 05:01 PM
no mate no photos as i have sanded them out back to bare metal and re primed ready for top coat at least acrylic is easy to repair
but it continues to happen there very hard to see at times as the colour is off white so i dont think they would show up very well in a photo
pocock
but it continues to happen there very hard to see at times as the colour is off white so i dont think they would show up very well in a photo
pocock
#10
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 15 May 2012 - 06:42 PM
Where are the two filters in relation to the compressor?
What kind of filters are they?
What size is the compressor?
How old is the air line"
How long is the air line?
What brand and product line primer did you use?
What brand and product line Thinner did you use in the primer?
What brand and product line filler did you use?
Where in relation to the bare metal and the primer did you use filler, if any?
What brand and product line top coat did you use??
What brand and product line thinner did you use in the top coat?
Where did you get the mixing ratio's for all the above?
What do you use to clean the gun out?
Where was the vehicle stored while it was "curing" for two weeks as you mention?
How did you prep the old paint??
Did you do any tests to work out what the old paint was??
What condition was the old paint in?
Got a few more questions, but answers to the above will do for now.
Cheers.
What kind of filters are they?
What size is the compressor?
How old is the air line"
How long is the air line?
What brand and product line primer did you use?
What brand and product line Thinner did you use in the primer?
What brand and product line filler did you use?
Where in relation to the bare metal and the primer did you use filler, if any?
What brand and product line top coat did you use??
What brand and product line thinner did you use in the top coat?
Where did you get the mixing ratio's for all the above?
What do you use to clean the gun out?
Where was the vehicle stored while it was "curing" for two weeks as you mention?
How did you prep the old paint??
Did you do any tests to work out what the old paint was??
What condition was the old paint in?
Got a few more questions, but answers to the above will do for now.
Cheers.
#11
_nial8r_
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Posted 15 May 2012 - 08:08 PM
quick DJ's sober 
get in quick and theres a 99.9% chance you will have you problem solved
when i do a lick & stick ( Acylic ) i just give the old shyt a good rub with 240wet, wash it down, let it dry or blow it down with the compressor, presol, high fill primer, 1st a dust over then start laying it down a bit heavier till i have about 4 coats one after the other and make sure the last coat is nice and wet. leave it for a day or two and then block it down with 800wet wash al the sludge off getit dried off, throw 2 more coat of H/F over it let it go off then give it a light dry rub with 600 in a circular motion, prepsol, throw the base on and then then get my clear ready while the base flashes off and on it goes, about 4-5 good wet coats then i let it sit for a good week or two then chop it with 1200 wet to get any peal out of it, buff and polish and its like glass and never had a problem.
yes i have had about 8 Rums
my number one guess would be moisture but what do i know im just a tin tapper 
get in quick and theres a 99.9% chance you will have you problem solvedwhen i do a lick & stick ( Acylic ) i just give the old shyt a good rub with 240wet, wash it down, let it dry or blow it down with the compressor, presol, high fill primer, 1st a dust over then start laying it down a bit heavier till i have about 4 coats one after the other and make sure the last coat is nice and wet. leave it for a day or two and then block it down with 800wet wash al the sludge off getit dried off, throw 2 more coat of H/F over it let it go off then give it a light dry rub with 600 in a circular motion, prepsol, throw the base on and then then get my clear ready while the base flashes off and on it goes, about 4-5 good wet coats then i let it sit for a good week or two then chop it with 1200 wet to get any peal out of it, buff and polish and its like glass and never had a problem.
yes i have had about 8 Rums
my number one guess would be moisture but what do i know im just a tin tapper
#12
Mort
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Posted 15 May 2012 - 10:19 PM
Holy crap DJ you had a double shot of Mother.
Well Pocock, if DJ can't find you an answer then it might be just as easy to start from scratch and bare metal it.
Well Pocock, if DJ can't find you an answer then it might be just as easy to start from scratch and bare metal it.
#13
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Posted 15 May 2012 - 10:40 PM
to answer a few of your questions.the old paint was dry rubbed back with 180 prepsol primed left for 6 weeks to cure under cover
then painted as decribed earlier paint used was protec primer filler and concept paint and thinners for top coat the car was top coated back in febuary and has been left sit to cure and has not ben cut and polished as yet, all air lines are 12 months old
compressor ingersoll rand 60 litre tank 1st trap 1 metre from compressor 2nd trap 4 mtrs from compressor in line done many cars
never had a problem before
pocock
then painted as decribed earlier paint used was protec primer filler and concept paint and thinners for top coat the car was top coated back in febuary and has been left sit to cure and has not ben cut and polished as yet, all air lines are 12 months old
compressor ingersoll rand 60 litre tank 1st trap 1 metre from compressor 2nd trap 4 mtrs from compressor in line done many cars
never had a problem before
pocock
#14
lxsstorana
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Posted 16 May 2012 - 06:00 AM
Sounds like you have taken the correct steps and have the right gear to paint so my guess is a contaminent in the old paint.
Maybe someone has used silicone products on the car which is working its way through the new paint?
Maybe someone has used silicone products on the car which is working its way through the new paint?
#15
_pocock_
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Posted 16 May 2012 - 10:05 AM
yeah i am thinking the same thing the old paint is the problem not real sure what to do about it though the vechile is fully resprayed inside and outside all the jams , engine bay underneath so a lot of work to strip it all back
pocock
pocock
#16
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 16 May 2012 - 06:04 PM
That was going to be on the list of next questions.
Before putting sandpaper anywhere near anything i wash it down thoroughly with dishwashing liquid then prepsol it.
Why did you mix brands primer and top coat? And why oh why in gods name did you use anything from Concept??
Cheers.
Before putting sandpaper anywhere near anything i wash it down thoroughly with dishwashing liquid then prepsol it.
Why did you mix brands primer and top coat? And why oh why in gods name did you use anything from Concept??
Cheers.
#17
_pocock_
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Posted 16 May 2012 - 10:41 PM
you dont like concept brand paint bomber, ? have you had problems with it, i have used it many times with out issues ,have had a fair bit of trouble with protec products though especially the clear never had any problems like this before though
pocock
pocock
#18
_Yella Fella_
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Posted 17 May 2012 - 03:37 AM
Oil or silicon contamination???? Have you used clean rags (not used for mechanical anything) and prepsol or wax & grease remover prior to painting?
Edited by Yella Fella, 17 May 2012 - 03:37 AM.
#19
_Quagmire_
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Posted 17 May 2012 - 10:08 AM
yeah that could be another
make sure all your car wash/wax/cleaning stuff
and silicone sprays are at least 10 metres away from the shed when spraying
and wash the floor really well too
make sure all your car wash/wax/cleaning stuff
and silicone sprays are at least 10 metres away from the shed when spraying
and wash the floor really well too
#20
TerrA LX
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Posted 17 May 2012 - 11:32 AM
Oil or silicon usually leads to fisheyes, I am leaning towards humidity blisters either introduced via the gun or more likely already present in the undercoat.
#21
_pocock_
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Posted 17 May 2012 - 12:58 PM
thanks fellas for your thoughts i did clean all areas well with wax and grease remover and clean rags before painting the bubbles blisters what ever you want to call them are only pop up buy them selfs , generally humidy blisters are in a group the area feels rough like sand paper and they come and go ,maybe there was humidity blisters in the old paint its a pain in the bum thats for sure
just having a think about what course of action to take .
thanks
pocock
just having a think about what course of action to take .
thanks
pocock
#22
71xu1
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Posted 17 May 2012 - 08:37 PM
Silicone comes up straight away I'm hedging towards underlying problems in the original paint that have now surfaced.
#23
_pocock_
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Posted 17 May 2012 - 10:36 PM
yes mate i tend to agree with you there is a problem with the old paint
#24
_Yella Fella_
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Posted 17 May 2012 - 10:54 PM
Good point Terra.
What grade paper did you prepare the surface with again? May be a an issue with the paint not keying properly with the base coat. Maybe didn't sand enough, and the paint is not bonding properly.
I've never had anything like that. Sometimes I wish I could have some issues to solve.
What grade paper did you prepare the surface with again? May be a an issue with the paint not keying properly with the base coat. Maybe didn't sand enough, and the paint is not bonding properly.
I've never had anything like that. Sometimes I wish I could have some issues to solve.
#25
_pocock_
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Posted 18 May 2012 - 12:21 PM
rubbed back the old paint with 180 i think by memory , yes i agree there is an adhesion problem possibly or some form
of problem with the old paint , should of been removed in hindsight so now it is either leave it and see what happens or take it all off and start again.? thats the question will these little bubbles get bigger and cause the paint to lift off over a time once it gets out in the queensland weather i know one thing if i do decide to take it all off i will be using epoxy primer over the bare metal , then apply iso free 2k high build primer then the lacqurer top coat should give agood solid foundation so i have been told
pocock
of problem with the old paint , should of been removed in hindsight so now it is either leave it and see what happens or take it all off and start again.? thats the question will these little bubbles get bigger and cause the paint to lift off over a time once it gets out in the queensland weather i know one thing if i do decide to take it all off i will be using epoxy primer over the bare metal , then apply iso free 2k high build primer then the lacqurer top coat should give agood solid foundation so i have been told
pocock
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