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T5 vs R154


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#1 _paulbrasell71_

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:15 PM

Hi forum-
I started a thread a few days ago about fitting a 5 speed into my 308 LH -most replies suggested go for a TKO if possible which would be awesome but it is obviously very expensive and I dont need a box that strong anyway -other suggestions were the supra R154 or a borg warner T5 that sound more appealling and I have read mostly good things about both
The supra sounds reasonably straightforward conversion wise (a kit from CRS maybe then find a box) but the T5 seems to be more complicated -Some people say it is easier to use one from a 6 cylinder ford (there are few XF falcon ones for sale on trade me (NZ equivalent of ebay)) for around $700-$1000 but it seems strange to use a 6 cylinder one rather than a V8 one (and a ford one for that matter) -I have also heard they can be a hassle to install
Can anyone give me some advise on what would be the best T5 box to consider and what they are like compared to the R154? -It would be good to aim for the T5 as opposed to the supra purely for superficial reasons (jap box etc) but that would'nt be too important if the R154 one was considerably better

Thanks in advance for any input

Edited by paulbrasell71, 16 May 2012 - 09:19 PM.


#2 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:17 PM

A second hand R154 is about 2k. A brand new TKO is about $2200 from the states.

Both are far stonger than a T5.

Cheers.

#3 _paulbrasell71_

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:23 PM

True -I thought the TKO was more expensive (and thought a supra one could be found cheaper) -If thats the case its worth a rethink -cheers

#4 76lxhatch

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:31 PM

The standard 'Supra' box (W55 etc) is more on par with the T5 and a lot cheaper, the R154 is commonly called the 'Supra Turbo' box

#5 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:48 PM

Bingo ^

Edited by Bomber Watson, 16 May 2012 - 09:49 PM.


#6 _paulbrasell71_

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:54 PM

yeah the TKO isnt quite as expensive as I thought -maybe it is worth saving up for -I posted a link to a box on ebay below -assuming this is about US$2800 landed in NZ ,can anyone estimate the cost of the other parts that would be needed (Clutch kit, conversion kit etc)?

http://www.ebay.com/...tr#ht_500wt_903

Edited by paulbrasell71, 16 May 2012 - 09:56 PM.


#7 ls2lxhatch

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 10:39 PM

This thread should help with TKO info.
http://www.gmh-toran...for-the-torana/

Evan was also selling a W58 conversion.
http://www.gmh-toran...pra-conversion/

#8 _Quagmire_

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 12:09 AM

you can beef up the t5...but the bits are like 2k ex states
so it's kinda pointless lol

#9 76lxhatch

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 06:59 AM

can anyone estimate the cost of the other parts that would be needed (Clutch kit, conversion kit etc)?

Could be a bit expensive (especially if you have a Holden pattern block rather than Chev), but no different to any other gearbox so has no bearing on which one you choose. All parts readily available.

I paid $800 odd (includes shipping and tax!) for my Muncie conversion bell housing from Dellow, this is the major saving if you have a Chev pattern block you can get something much cheaper. Clutches have gotten expensive, figure on $600+ for a full kit or $250 for decent heavy duty driven plate if that's all you need to change. Driveshaft yoke change could cost another couple hundred depending on what you have and what you can find cheap. Add some more for bits like clutch fork/mechanism and pedal if you need that stuff too.


Oh and to answer your question about the six cylinder Ford T5, its popular because the input shaft length and shifter position better suit the Holdens. Internally the boxes often have slightly different ratios between six and eight (and between Holden and Ford) but are basically the same.

#10 dattoman

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 09:14 AM

Not to mention T5's can be tricky to find and expensive... especially V8 Holden ones

All the 6 cyl ones get snapped up here for the sallon car racers... they put PPG gearsets in them (about $5k) and race them to death
But they have alittle less torque than a big 8

Theres plenty of options... none are easy unless your wallet is fat

#11 rexy

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 09:11 PM

A forum member here recently upgraded his steel case celica set up to a R154. The box cost him $800 from memory.
The beauty of using the 154 is you can do a pretty cheap conversion as many of the bits are common to lesser celica and W series boxes. These bits come up for sale quite often.
My 154 has survived over a decade and 80,000k behind the 383 in the sedan despite the sticky drag radials and many a 1-2 slam shift.

#12 limo

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 10:28 PM

I paid $400 for a R154 at local wreckers (I'm well known there, he wanted twice that) $80 for used bell housing on fee by (suit trimatic block) Statesman tailshaft $50 from same wrecker (will be cut down) $140 for front yoke. Haven't got to rear yet as thinking of BW diff. All to go in LJ 2 dr, took about a yr to get bits so far.

#13 _Chamois hatch_

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 12:25 PM

^^Thanks rexy^^


ok, depending on how much power your engine is making should determine the box you get.

I ran a celica 5 speed behind a standard EFI 304 in my hatch for a year of daily driving and it was absolutely fine. (i just drove sensibly)

If your engine is going to be a mild 308, a standard W series supra box ( W55, W57, W58 etc) will be sufficient. and its a more affordable option. you can usually pick up a whole conversion kit on ebay for around $1k.

Also worth noting.

That i upgraded my 304 to a more mild setup, so changed over to a r154 supra box. the conversion cost me stuff all comparatively as all the toyota boxes share the same clutch. All i needed to buy was a new throw out bearing,billet bell housing spacer plate, and have my celica housing redrilled by CRS to take the r154 box. cost $400 total, I had a completely new tailshaft made as the old one was an orginal v8 torana one and was a bitch to balance last time i had the uni's changed. (so i bit the bullet)

I picked up a 2nd hand r154 box from a jap wrecker on ebay for $750+freight, came with warranty. and its fine. so people paying 2k for a box are just not doing their homework.

if you need pics or any further help PM me or Rexy (who helped me alot with this)

cheers
John

Edited by Chamois hatch, 25 May 2012 - 12:28 PM.


#14 76lxhatch

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 01:44 PM

I picked up a 2nd hand r154 box from a jap wrecker on ebay for $750+freight, came with warranty. and its fine. so people paying 2k for a box are just not doing their homework.

Yes and no, if you have the luxury of time (or luck) to find the right conversion bell housing, clutch, driveshaft etc components then maybe around $1K but it wouldn't be hard at all for the complete cost to blow out to $2K+ if the gearbox itself is $750

#15 _Chamois hatch_

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 03:57 PM

I was saying that usually people sell complete conversions on ebay for about $1k (there are 4 listed on ebay to suit 308/304 atm) this is for a W series box.

R series fetch a premium as they are much tougher and a lot less common. For an R series conversion I would budget around $2k. Assuming you're fitting it yourself.

cheers
john

#16 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 06:36 PM

How big is the R series compared to a W series??

Cheers.

#17 76lxhatch

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 06:44 AM

this is for a W series box.

Ah sorry I did misunderstand

How big is the R series compared to a W series??

Cheers.

A bit bigger and bulkier but not so much that it should cause fitting issues:
http://my.is/forums/f114/help-need-trans-dimensions-w55-v160-r154-215636/#post2867162
(main thing is the longer input shaft/bell housing)

#18 _Chamois hatch_

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 12:35 PM

Ah sorry I did misunderstand

A bit bigger and bulkier but not so much that it should cause fitting issues:
http://my.is/forums/...36/#post2867162
(main thing is the longer input shaft/bell housing)



No worries mate.

This site explains almost everything about the various Toyota boxes

http://users.tpg.com...gearboxes2.html

Hear are some pics of my conversion, for all those interested.

The bellhousing is a CRS celica housing redrille to suit the billet spacer and R154 box (note: that CRS will only re-drill their bellhousing, not dellow)

This is the spacer kit from CRS

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Billet spacer, bolt kit and sleeve that is tightly fitted over the input shaft. (use a big hammer and length of pipe to fit this) the throw out bearing then goes on this sleeve.

Note on the throw out bearing: CRS use a V6 Commodore bearing (from memory), in order for it to fit over the sleeve, the center will have to be machined out a bit to suit the extra thickness of the sleeve.

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fitted in place

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The supra box sits a fare bit lower than a celica box, (1-2 inches) so the crossmember needed modifing


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The supra box was only a little bit heavier than the cast iron celica box.

Speedo cable (I have an electronic sensor), clutch plate, pressure plate, and spigot bush, shifter housing are all the same across the range of toyota boxes

The R154 output shaft is 23 spline The Celica and W Series supra boxes are smaller at 21 spline.

I had a new tailshaft made to suit as it needed to be shorter and I wanted bigger uni's, my box came with the yoke the R154 uni's are big enough for my needs.

Note on tailshaft: no matter what you have, you will need to mod the tailshaft, there are no cross over uni joints from holden/toyota etc. dellow do a R154 yoke to suit a ford uni but it costs around the $200 mark, for that you should be able to have your shaft shortened and modified to take the standard toyota uni. My new shiny tailshaft cost $450. Used Sydney driveline services, very good price and service.

Edited by Chamois hatch, 26 May 2012 - 12:45 PM.


#19 _tyre fryer_

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 07:52 AM

Don't know if you're interested but I was lurking as I usually do and stumbled across a richmond box conversion.
Here it is.
http://www.aussiev8....ts-gearbox.html




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