In the long term, Crankshaft Rebuilders are the cheapest solution. This is simply because you will only have to but ONE crank, you need to buy a couple of the others when they fail.
202 "stroker" kits- opinions? +knifedged bmotor cranks
Started by
orangeLJ
, Aug 03 2012 04:25 PM
163 replies to this topic
#27
_double_d_
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Posted 06 August 2012 - 06:08 PM
i just paid $500 to have a blue crank crack tested, machined and phased so all pots will be at TDC when they are suppose to be
as long as my rods and pistons are the same size
daniel d
as long as my rods and pistons are the same size
daniel d
Edited by double_d, 06 August 2012 - 06:08 PM.
#28
orangeLJ
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Posted 08 August 2012 - 10:01 AM
Where did you get that done Daniel?
#29
orangeLJ
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Posted 08 August 2012 - 10:19 AM
sounds good, whats the rest of the plan??
Originally Jzed head, but budget restrains reined that in for the minute.
So instead, the 12 port I bought off you went off to a mate (upside down picture below)
I'd like to go dry sump (have a sprintcar setup that we could use) but the cost and weight is a bit of an offput for that.
Instead probably external pickup, big winged sump, big set of pipes (will make our own) and now looking down the injection path.
Edited by orangeLJ, 08 August 2012 - 10:21 AM.
#30
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 08 August 2012 - 06:48 PM
How did the head end up pulling up?
#31
_double_d_
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Posted 08 August 2012 - 10:25 PM
i got my crank done by ken at northside crankshafts, lawnton, brisbane
he used to do a lot of hq racers up this way
really nice bloke and full of info
and will share it all with you if you have the time to talk to him
he used to do a lot of hq racers up this way
really nice bloke and full of info
and will share it all with you if you have the time to talk to him
#32
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Posted 09 August 2012 - 09:10 PM
G'day mate,I am new to this forum but I have built these engines for over 25 years and still race one now,i can tell you what I know works but in the end the choice is yours ,a stroker and long rods will provide more usable torque and drivability over a wider range than a standard stroke/rod engine .The knifedged blue/black crank is close to the weight of a red motor crank but the weight is spread over the length of the crank which helps reduce harmonic vibrations .I can supply you with a proven parts combination ,bottom end,cylinder head and camshaft to suit your requirements.At the moment my street driven natrually aspirated stroker FJ does a 13.1 1/4 mile with a mild 218ci engine on pump fuel, Mick
#33
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Posted 11 August 2012 - 11:09 PM
What does your FJ weigh mate?
Something you forget to mention in your ebay ad.
Cheers.
Something you forget to mention in your ebay ad.
Cheers.
#34
warrenm
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Posted 12 August 2012 - 09:03 AM
Hello Mick, long time no see!G'day mate,I am new to this forum but I have built these engines for over 25 years and still race one now,i can tell you what I know works but in the end the choice is yours ,a stroker and long rods will provide more usable torque and drivability over a wider range than a standard stroke/rod engine .The knifedged blue/black crank is close to the weight of a red motor crank but the weight is spread over the length of the crank which helps reduce harmonic vibrations .I can supply you with a proven parts combination ,bottom end,cylinder head and camshaft to suit your requirements.At the moment my street driven natrually aspirated stroker FJ does a 13.1 1/4 mile with a mild 218ci engine on pump fuel, Mick
#35
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Posted 12 August 2012 - 04:54 PM
G'day Warren, hows it goin, it's been a while,what have you been dooin? Fitted 2" su's up to a cut n shut armours manifold ,man what a difference to the holley, low end torque is way up but hp/1/4 mile speed is the same ,took over 2 tenths off 1/4 mile time.This motor is getting tired and its time to think about changes for the next engine to get into the 12's.
Bomber Watson asked about FJ weights ,at the last meeting the FJ ute weighed 1207kg with me in it,
Mick
Bomber Watson asked about FJ weights ,at the last meeting the FJ ute weighed 1207kg with me in it,
Mick
#36
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Posted 12 August 2012 - 05:28 PM
So your making a bit less than 200 on the slide rule?
Cheers.
Cheers.
#37
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Posted 12 August 2012 - 05:31 PM
Bomber Watson,My FJ weighs 1207kg with me in it, MickWhat does your FJ weigh mate?
Something you forget to mention in your ebay ad.
Cheers.
#38
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Posted 12 August 2012 - 05:36 PM
Somwhere around 200 depending on the 1/4 mile speed if f you look at it that way, someimes speed is over 100mph sometimes under, what does the rule say for 101mph ,MickSo your making a bit less than 200 on the slide rule?
Cheers.
#39
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Posted 12 August 2012 - 05:44 PM
About 210.
Thats reasonable mate, care to share anything else on the combo? Head, cam, etc?
Was actually going to send you an email on ebay asking some dumb questions, good to see your on the forums.
Mostly what compression height the slugs are and where you get them from, and what the compession height for the pistons you use with the stock stroke kit you mention on ebay, assuming its with the same rods.
Cheers.
Thats reasonable mate, care to share anything else on the combo? Head, cam, etc?
Was actually going to send you an email on ebay asking some dumb questions, good to see your on the forums.
Mostly what compression height the slugs are and where you get them from, and what the compession height for the pistons you use with the stock stroke kit you mention on ebay, assuming its with the same rods.
Cheers.
Edited by Bomber Watson, 12 August 2012 - 05:46 PM.
#40
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Posted 12 August 2012 - 06:15 PM
Yeah I'm happy with 210 moroso for this engine and I like dumb questions they are easy to answer.About 210.
Thats reasonable mate, care to share anything else on the combo? Head, cam, etc?
Was actually going to send you an email on ebay asking some dumb questions, good to see your on the forums.
Mostly what compression height the slugs are and where you get them from, and what the compession height for the pistons you use with the stock stroke kit you mention on ebay, assuming its with the same rods.
Cheers.
OK this engine has an offset ground knifedged blue motor crank, 5.7 rods ,ported yella terra iron 12 port head (made before alloy 12 port) ,solid cam is about 245 @50 ,1.5 rockers, tripple 2" su on shortened and joined armours manifolds,pacemaker extractors.This engine was built as a test bed about 5 years ago to prove the stroker idea and is on its last legs. This was built before we had the h beam rods or decent pistons so was assembled with fingers crossed and whatever we could sacrifice to the gods to help us..It was designed as a street combo and ran 13.89 first time out with 2bbl holley on a holden blue motor manifold. Compression heights are around 1.2" for both strokes just mill the block for the std stroke kit,Mick
#41
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Posted 12 August 2012 - 06:42 PM
Cool, cheers for that.
Most of you lads offering such kits never divulge "secrets" such as compression height on the pistons, assumedly thinking im going to steal there idea.....
In actual fact i can work it out for my self if i was going to get custom stuff made, ergo i never talk to that supplyer again.... but i was thinking about getting a price for just rods and slugs off you, and seeing though you want to help a little i'll definitely get a price if thats ok
Most of you lads offering such kits never divulge "secrets" such as compression height on the pistons, assumedly thinking im going to steal there idea.....
In actual fact i can work it out for my self if i was going to get custom stuff made, ergo i never talk to that supplyer again.... but i was thinking about getting a price for just rods and slugs off you, and seeing though you want to help a little i'll definitely get a price if thats ok
#42
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Posted 12 August 2012 - 08:21 PM
That info is there for anyone to workout, cant understand why they are so guarded, really there are only a few cam specs which are critical to work with each combination that are not given for free .Cool, cheers for that.
Most of you lads offering such kits never divulge "secrets" such as compression height on the pistons, assumedly thinking im going to steal there idea.....
In actual fact i can work it out for my self if i was going to get custom stuff made, ergo i never talk to that supplyer again.... but i was thinking about getting a price for just rods and slugs off you, and seeing though you want to help a little i'll definitely get a price if thats ok
A set of 5.7" h beams are $1200, pistons and rings are $550, a prepped knifedged crank to suit these rods is $1200, precision balancing for the rotating assy is $200 , cam and lifters is $375, Mick
#43
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Posted 13 August 2012 - 08:32 AM
Hi Mick,
Have you supplied this crank/piston/rod combo to any high reving (well, relatively high reving anyway) circuit cars with good head flow that get used hard. How did they go? (power/torque curve/driveability/durability)
Cheers.
Have you supplied this crank/piston/rod combo to any high reving (well, relatively high reving anyway) circuit cars with good head flow that get used hard. How did they go? (power/torque curve/driveability/durability)
Cheers.
#44
warrenm
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Posted 13 August 2012 - 10:22 AM
You finally seen the light & fitted some good carbs.G'day Warren, hows it goin, it's been a while,what have you been dooin? Fitted 2" su's up to a cut n shut armours manifold ,man what a difference to the holley, low end torque is way up but hp/1/4 mile speed is the same ,took over 2 tenths off 1/4 mile time.This motor is getting tired and its time to think about changes for the next engine to get into the 12's.
Bomber Watson asked about FJ weights ,at the last meeting the FJ ute weighed 1207kg with me in it,
Mick
Did you use the "Torana" Armours manifold, is this why you cut n shut?
P1020111 (600 x 450).jpg 73.91K
0 downloadsI haven't got a pic of the other 1 that will fit in the FJ, but the carb flange doesn't kick back down as it does with the "Torana" version (so the the carbs fit under the bonnet). I haven't done much racing, we had a change in roster at work which I have to work 2 weekends in 4, & most race meetings seem to line up with the weekends that I work. I think there is a bit of a conspiracy against me.
Sounds like the J needs to go on a diet, I thought it was lighter than my LJ, but you 37kgs heavier.
#45
greens nice
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Posted 13 August 2012 - 06:49 PM
the FJ style armours and torana style should both fit in the FJ bay. you wont get any ram tubes in there with the torana style though.
Are they the manifolds that are on your car warren?
Are they the manifolds that are on your car warren?
Edited by greens nice, 13 August 2012 - 06:50 PM.
#46
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Posted 13 August 2012 - 07:30 PM
Playing aroudn with a few numbers because im waiting for picks to upload, and im a bit bored, i have some more questions.
What overbore are you working on with the calculations on the ebay add??
Going by my rough sums then the 3.375" stroke you say the kit has works out to about 216ci at .060", to get the 222ci you quote in the ebay add you would need to go .110" overbore??
Standard bore = 209ci, .060" 216ci, everything inbetween is inbetween obviously...Unless im missing something??
Anyway, my rough sums also say your moving the piston .0625" up at TDC, and your rod/piston combo (assuming its 5.7 not 5.73 as your ebay add used to suggest) and the comp height is 1.2" means the piston will be sitting .0325" higher at TDC with your kit, which would be usefull on an undecked block, save taking so much off.
The rough sums also suggest that it will sit the piston roughly .030" lower than stock on a stock stroke, meaning taking the average of .050" required to get the slug to TDC (just going by seeral i have measured) your looking at pulling .080" off the deck, that would start to worry me a bit, and thats just to get to 0 deck, give or take a bit obviously.
So are the rods 5.7" or 5.73"? The ebay add used to list both lenghs? Was 5.73 just a typo?
Only asking as 5.73 would be awesome for a stock stroke job....This is all working off 1.2" comp height, you say roughly....
I dont mean to look like im analyzing your add trying to put it down, just trying to sort the sums out, dont want to buy something and find out its not suitable, or i have to take .100" off the deck for instance.....
So many dumb questions as im toying with the idea of a nice 12 port headed injected street engine and the little bit extra stroke is actually a bit tempting, what are you turning your engine to??
Also are the pistons available in various chamberr sizes or purely as flat tops? And i assume there available in a variety of bore sizes, given that you mentione varoius sizes in the ebay add.
I ask about the chamber size as you will need to be very carefull running around 215ci when it comes to chamber size of the head, for instance @ 215 you will need about 54cc vol at tdc to be around 12:1.....
Cheers.
What overbore are you working on with the calculations on the ebay add??
Going by my rough sums then the 3.375" stroke you say the kit has works out to about 216ci at .060", to get the 222ci you quote in the ebay add you would need to go .110" overbore??
Standard bore = 209ci, .060" 216ci, everything inbetween is inbetween obviously...Unless im missing something??
Anyway, my rough sums also say your moving the piston .0625" up at TDC, and your rod/piston combo (assuming its 5.7 not 5.73 as your ebay add used to suggest) and the comp height is 1.2" means the piston will be sitting .0325" higher at TDC with your kit, which would be usefull on an undecked block, save taking so much off.
The rough sums also suggest that it will sit the piston roughly .030" lower than stock on a stock stroke, meaning taking the average of .050" required to get the slug to TDC (just going by seeral i have measured) your looking at pulling .080" off the deck, that would start to worry me a bit, and thats just to get to 0 deck, give or take a bit obviously.
So are the rods 5.7" or 5.73"? The ebay add used to list both lenghs? Was 5.73 just a typo?
Only asking as 5.73 would be awesome for a stock stroke job....This is all working off 1.2" comp height, you say roughly....
I dont mean to look like im analyzing your add trying to put it down, just trying to sort the sums out, dont want to buy something and find out its not suitable, or i have to take .100" off the deck for instance.....
So many dumb questions as im toying with the idea of a nice 12 port headed injected street engine and the little bit extra stroke is actually a bit tempting, what are you turning your engine to??
Also are the pistons available in various chamberr sizes or purely as flat tops? And i assume there available in a variety of bore sizes, given that you mentione varoius sizes in the ebay add.
I ask about the chamber size as you will need to be very carefull running around 215ci when it comes to chamber size of the head, for instance @ 215 you will need about 54cc vol at tdc to be around 12:1.....
Cheers.
#47
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Posted 13 August 2012 - 07:40 PM
Also with a bit more nosing around your ebay stuff would it be rude of me to suggest you might be using Honda rods and Ford pistons?
#48
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Posted 13 August 2012 - 10:21 PM
Almost 40 kits of varying specs have gone to speedway and circuit racers around the country,some have gone into street cars as well. Restricted Speedway blokes love the torque because they can now drive around the outside of 250 fords.Nobody in racing gives power figures , except one speedway guy in north qld said hid 218ci long rod engine made 220 rwhp with a 500 holley on alcohol.What are you building and what is the intended use ?.Reliability depends on care in assembly ,good continous oil supply and rpms used. MickHi Mick,
Have you supplied this crank/piston/rod combo to any high reving (well, relatively high reving anyway) circuit cars with good head flow that get used hard. How did they go? (power/torque curve/driveability/durability)
Cheers.
#49
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Posted 13 August 2012 - 10:40 PM
Sounds like theyve got it in for you mate, July 29th was my first meeting in 2 yrs so i have a lot of catchin up to do,time seem to be the main problem.Its hard to get 37kg out without changing the cars character too much.Everything not needed is out (even swaybars) .May be I should lose the 37kg.You finally seen the light & fitted some good carbs.
Did you use the "Torana" Armours manifold, is this why you cut n shut?
I haven't got a pic of the other 1 that will fit in the FJ, but the carb flange doesn't kick back down as it does with the "Torana" version (so the the carbs fit under the bonnet). I haven't done much racing, we had a change in roster at work which I have to work 2 weekends in 4, & most race meetings seem to line up with the weekends that I work. I think there is a bit of a conspiracy against me.
Sounds like the J needs to go on a diet, I thought it was lighter than my LJ, but you 37kgs heavier.
Yep definatley seen the light , I couldnt get any more out of the holley. I started with torana manifolds and cut them to get the bowl angle dead right ,otherwise they can sometimes run out of fuel,also joined them together with 1" tube. After a lot of time getting needles right it was ready to run again. There might be a bit more in it with springs and oils and smoothing the air coming into the carbs.
#50
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Posted 13 August 2012 - 10:48 PM
Gday Kevin hows it goin, Hows your dad ?the FJ style armours and torana style should both fit in the FJ bay. you wont get any ram tubes in there with the torana style though.
Are they the manifolds that are on your car warren?
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