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x ray on engine number

Started by _1973bathxu1_ , Nov 16 2012 05:56 AM

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#1 _1973bathxu1_

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:56 AM

Hi i have a 73 bath engine that i bought some 8 years ago, under my bench,as a spare, ive just been informed that this engine is in another xu1 torana. Im a confident that mine is real, but to make sure
im more than happy to get my engine x rayed,
Can any one guide me to the right people so i can know for sure if its real or not, as i paid good money for it
If mine is not genuine i will destory the block. I remember reading a forum member with a L34 that got his engine xrayed so would like to find out where to take it.
As you can understand I am not happy that there may be a second engine out there with the same engine number as mine - as I said if my engine is infact not genuine I will be destroying it tho it certainly doesn't look like its been restamped.
Once I get the block xrayed (and is genuine) I will put up the number on the forum as I will be trying to find the other car that I have heard is on the market as we speak.
Can anyone point me in the right direction so I can rest my mind. Regards, Aldo.

#2 _LONA-CK_

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 06:06 AM

what is the date code of the block aldo??? i have tried getting these numbers for awhile now has i dont think holden made more than 2 cast dates for the 73 bathurst engines, but there seems to be more, i call bollicks on that has they only made 2 cast dates for the 71 bathurst engines, 1 was G191 and the other was F231 ANYWAYS -[you need to contact ronald red socks he had his l34 block tested]

GOOD LUCK AND CHEERS
GONG

#3 V-SLR5000-P

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 06:50 AM

Ronaldoredsox had his L34 block checked by Victoria Police.

#4 Shtstr

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 07:04 AM

you can go to most engine builders. They have the equipment to crack test. The same test will show u any numbers under the one on the block.. Also you should be able to tell if it has been machined down on the pad.

#5 yel327

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 08:02 AM

Is it actually a proper 1973 Bathurst block? If it turns out to be not an original stamping, just machine the number off and use it as a spare engine. You can always get a Vic Police number put on it when it goes in a car (as long as any apparant old number is not a stolen one!).

#6 Evan

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 08:30 AM

hi Aldo.

I work in the NDT (Non destructive testing) field and do industrial radiography and crack inspection on a daily basis. I would find it hard to believe that you could see the an old engine number under a new number. Im taking the old one would have been machined off and a new one stamped over the top?

I would contract redsox as above and then your best bet would be to contact a NDT company in your area and give it a crack. Shouldnt be over $100.

Evan.

Edited by Evan, 16 November 2012 - 08:30 AM.

#7 yel327

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 08:48 AM

I've also seen someone wave an oxy flame near to the engine number on a decked block and the old number appears for a short while. Not sure if this would work on a restamped on though.

#8 _gtr-xu1_

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 09:24 AM

i heard the ozy trick actually removes the old number from in the cast. making the old number no longer able to be Xrayed, they get it red hot and as the metal cools the fracture from the stamping goes back to its original state. not sure if this is true but its what i was told

#9 _pinklx_

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:26 AM

http://www.jalopyjou...=acid&showall=1

this was interesting. and can be done at home

#10 TerrA LX

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:32 AM

Hi i have a 73 bath engine that i bought some 8 years ago, under my bench,as a spare, ive just been informed that this engine is in another xu1 torana.


Informed is one thing but do you have any proof that the engine in the other car had the same engine number as yours?

#11 enderwigginau

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:33 PM

Contact the Vic Police Fraud Squad - Motor Vehicles

#12 _monman71_

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:31 PM

I thought when they were made the number is stamped in by heat that way if the number is taken off they can X-ray and see the heat marks ie numbers. In all but all cases the next number is hand stamped.

#13 _threeblindmice_

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:42 PM

Contact the Vic Police Fraud Squad - Motor Vehicles


LOL

#14 _1973bathxu1_

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:35 PM

hi i will be ringing the fraud squad on monday to see where i can drop the engine off
as for the cast date its 9G3 the engine is an 8/73 this marrys up exactlty i rang other guys with 73 bath xu1s with 8/73 and the cast date is 9G3 the same as this engine i have i also measured the valve cut outs
on top of the block and they measure up spot on ive checked the JP 390021 numbers with 4 other bathurst engines by taking photos and scanning them on top of each other and there spot on,ill put a photo up of the engine numbers for u guys to see,as i stated before if i have the restamped engine i will destroy it, im 99% sure that my engine is real,does any one know the guy who ownes a white 73 bathurst with the engine no JP 390021 so we can see which engine is real
john there are more than 2 cast datesin the 73 bath blocks some are 9H3 8H3 9G3 4G3 i will contact ronaldoredsox and see who checked his block
regards aldo

#15 frash da bucket

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:05 PM

Hi Aldo,

There is another test that you can do at home,put some battery acid on the engine number,and get a bright torch,the acid can bring up the original number,get a pen and paper and write it down.

Cheers John.

#16 _Quagmire_

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:33 PM

will any acid work? or just battery acid?i
may have to do this on my 308...it has been decked in the past

#17 frash da bucket

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:39 PM

Battery Acid.

#18 enderwigginau

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:08 PM

i will contact ronaldoredsox and see who checked his block
regards aldo

Vic Fraud Squad did.......they'll come to you Aldo.......

#19 _1973bathxu1_

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:20 PM

john thanks i will try the battery acid over the weekend,
terry hi no in not sure, but i was told by a good friend, about a white 73 bath xu1 with the same engine as mine,hopefully i can get some answers over the weekend
pink lx that is also a great idea in which they bring up chassis numbers, and it seems to work,
i just want to resolve this issue,
thanks guys for helping,
regards aldo

#20 _1973bathxu1_

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:32 PM

grant thanks thats great news ill contact the vic fraud squad on monday,
i dont care what it costs me, ive had xu1 toranas now for over 38 years and owned 100s i hope this doesnt happen to any one else,i can spot a restamp engine a mile away, if the one i have has been restamped its the best 1 ive seen,i as i said im 99% sure its real,ill get some photos up soon
regards aldo

#21 S pack

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:49 PM

I thought when they were made the number is stamped in by heat that way if the number is taken off they can X-ray and see the heat marks ie numbers. In all but all cases the next number is hand stamped.


Never heard of the engine numbers being stamped in hot.
The action of stamping the cast iron causes the grain structure of the metal below the stamping to be compressed.
I think of it as bruising the metal, there's probably a technical name for it, so even if you machine the metal down to remove the original number the remaining metal still has the bruising which will reveal the number when X-rayed.

#22 Evan

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 10:46 AM

Looks like this can be done with magnetic particle inspection and the correct surface preperation.

http://library-resou...FS323870640.pdf


Very cool.

#23 _pinklx_

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 11:28 AM

of course if the number has been stamped over say with x's before being machined down the acid and xray tests will be useless. also i hear getting them super hot also destroys the grain in the metel underneath, such as in runing a welder over the top then machineing.

#24 _2runa_

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:03 PM

Aldo grab a 9" angle grinder and cut the original number off and if there's no sign off tampering you have an original :stirpot:
I have an MPI instrument and the products that go with it which is magnafux ink... the only issue I can see is that if something has been stamped over the original number it may hinder the detection of whats under it...usually you need to clean the item .ie a slight decking by hand and possible it may show up.

What normally happens is that the magnaflux congregates around that current stamping covering the previous stamping. However my bet is that by taking photo's of the item from different direction you will discover the answer and someone is gunna get :fighting:

Knowing the person you are there is no doubt that if yours is wrong you will show the destruction of the item.

Where MPI is useful is where the items serial number has been removed and if nothing is showing up that well but there is a sign of something you can try acid etching

Edited by 2runa, 17 November 2012 - 12:07 PM.

#25 _1973bathxu1_

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:23 PM

hi ive rang vic police this arvo, the stolen cars dept, spoke to them regarding the restamping of engines, i told them the situation,they are gonna get back to me in the next few days weather they will come to me, or me to bring the engine to them,
ill keep u posted on the resault
regards aldo
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