hey Dick, thats bad luck mate. at least it wasnt as bad as it could have been! let me know if you need a tail light, I think I have a black ine here somewhere
Dyno Disaster
Started by
knoath
, Jun 16 2006 06:13 AM
44 replies to this topic
#26
makka
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Posted 16 June 2006 - 07:22 PM
#27
_Lostit_
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Posted 16 June 2006 - 07:41 PM
Mate idling at 1200 in park then 600 in gear ... theres a problem there thats just wrong. Get the grelims sorted out , anyone who tells you its running right has got rocks in there heads.
Lostit
Lostit
#28
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Posted 16 June 2006 - 08:11 PM
Yeah agree with CHEVLX alot of Dyno guy's run them up in 2ND Gear on a Dyno not for the reason of high wheel speed but because it give's a False torque reading and it looks better on paper. I use to have a commodore that made 216kwrw and that was in 2ND Gear and there is no-way it had that and that was at *MOD EDITED* in Melbourne meant to be a well respected dyno and when i got it back it went worse.
I dont like slandering people but i will never have another car on a Chassis Dyno or a Engine Dyno without me present.
Regard's Steve
MOD EDIT: Business name REMOVED. DO NOT name businesses. PM the poster if you want to know who it was.
I dont like slandering people but i will never have another car on a Chassis Dyno or a Engine Dyno without me present.
Regard's Steve
MOD EDIT: Business name REMOVED. DO NOT name businesses. PM the poster if you want to know who it was.
#29
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 17 June 2006 - 12:53 AM
The torque as measured by the dyno is always going to be greater(since most diffs are at least 3:1 and most wheels less than a meter in radius) than what the engine produces, the correct torque can of course be calculated looking at overall gearing along with the wheel size, or more easily by using the power output versus rpm figures.
#30
knoath
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Posted 17 June 2006 - 05:50 AM
Thanks to the well wishers.
YELLA SLuR wrote:
No dramas there Pat, the chocks weren't overly large.... I did notice that, but the spoiler is no grader, thats for sure...
LIAM wrote:
Thanks for the offer makka, two black SS style taillights now reside in the Hatch (picked 'em up for $15 pair at Calder swap meet yonks ago!)
Liam, I'm still winded by the kick in the guts!
YiriSS wrote:
But I suppose I could call GRA and see if they reckon they could get some more out of her...
Thanx for the heads up on the tickets mate.
Might have to see you about your exhaust guru!!!
Lostit wrote:
Thanks for the replies people.
YELLA SLuR wrote:
Did you check your front spoiler? I'm surprised that the chocks didn't flip over backwards like in a failure and put pressure on the front air dam.
No dramas there Pat, the chocks weren't overly large.... I did notice that, but the spoiler is no grader, thats for sure...
LIAM wrote:
Makka wrote:you got a free dyno out of it. You'd still be pissed tho, gotta find a new taillight, plus your car didn't perform as well as you expected - always a kick in the guts.
let me know if you need a tail light, I think I have a black ine here somewhere
Thanks for the offer makka, two black SS style taillights now reside in the Hatch (picked 'em up for $15 pair at Calder swap meet yonks ago!)
Liam, I'm still winded by the kick in the guts!
YiriSS wrote:
I was under the impression that Lakeside was the two guys who originally started Gas Research!i would take the hatch to gas research in dandy south
But I suppose I could call GRA and see if they reckon they could get some more out of her...
Thanx for the heads up on the tickets mate.
Might have to see you about your exhaust guru!!!
Lostit wrote:
Yeah..... can anyone shed some light on why she'd do this. I don't have enough knowledge here...Mate idling at 1200 in park then 600 in gear ... theres a problem there thats just wrong
Thanks for the replies people.
#31
YiriSS
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Posted 17 June 2006 - 06:41 PM
no problems, glad to help
let me know when you want to see the exhaust guy,
let me know when you want to see the exhaust guy,
#32
_tj81_
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Posted 18 June 2006 - 03:59 PM
hmm.... i remember reading somewhere that a standard 202 red motor was around the 101KW ? 83 for a 253 would tend to sound low if what i read was correct. Anyone else know the correct figures.
#33
_chevy_253_torana_
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Posted 19 June 2006 - 12:06 AM
mate if your gonna go for power go the small block chevy for real power not that holdens arent good but they used chevy internals to get em good
cheers chevy
cheers chevy
#34
_TORANA IN THE BLOOD_
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Posted 19 June 2006 - 12:13 PM
I think the old 253 has seen better days theres only one thing that is gonna fix your prob of 83kw that is $$$$$$$$$$$$$.In the last year i have spent $4000 on my 186 with all my work done by PKW performance an got 150hp @ wheels its amazeing what triples will do you wouldnt do much better than that out of a natural 186.As for the v8 it is a 308 but thats what should be in your toza i spent $5000 on 5.0 an got 250hp@ wheels work done by johnwhite race engines.
so what id be doing if i was you is saving for a motor transplant.Can i also say every time ive had my cars dynod in sydney i always get them to strap down car ive seen what can happen i saw a hz wagon blow a tyre an jump of dyno at about 100ks it was not a preety site no one was killed but it left a dirty hole in the wall an car was totaled MORAL even if your car has only 50kw shit can still happen it takes 5 min to put a strap on there just bgucking lazy if there not doing it all you gotta do is tell em no straps no dyno its easy.
so what id be doing if i was you is saving for a motor transplant.Can i also say every time ive had my cars dynod in sydney i always get them to strap down car ive seen what can happen i saw a hz wagon blow a tyre an jump of dyno at about 100ks it was not a preety site no one was killed but it left a dirty hole in the wall an car was totaled MORAL even if your car has only 50kw shit can still happen it takes 5 min to put a strap on there just bgucking lazy if there not doing it all you gotta do is tell em no straps no dyno its easy.
#35
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Posted 19 June 2006 - 01:24 PM
my dad spent about 700 bucks a few years ago on chevy 327 and got it to do 14s flat which at the time was quite an achivement motor then got sold and put into a rod
#36
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 19 June 2006 - 01:29 PM
There's hope yet. My 308 only pushed out 112.5 RWHP when I first got it. Now pushing 210 RWHP, and it didn't take a whole heap of cash to get it there. It was a bit sick when I first got it. Steps I took - kit carby then get it tuned by carbie dude, new cam (took 9 months and lots of talking to lots of peeps to select the right one), new Stage 3 heads (won't fit on a 253 :( ), and electronic distributor. Oh also ditched the engine fan in favour of thermos.
Maybe I was lucky. But my advice is work with the problems you have, rather than turfing it and importing a whole new box of unknown problems. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water.
Maybe I was lucky. But my advice is work with the problems you have, rather than turfing it and importing a whole new box of unknown problems. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water.
Edited by Yella SLuR, 19 June 2006 - 01:31 PM.
#37
Struggler
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Posted 19 June 2006 - 09:30 PM
Lets clear up some popular misconceptions.
From my experience a 253 making 83kW on LPG is more than acceptable.
As a comparison a VS or VT 5L auto goes 95-100kW, a good 308 with 286 Crane, extractors etc might go 145kW, a stock 202 goes 45kW.
Don't get too hung up on the numbers, if you want to know how much power the thing has then shift some weight down the quarter.
FWIW Who here would tie their car down when checking the timing in Park? And I guarantee the car was not actually in the rollers when this happened (the rear roller freewheels - only the front roller is loaded - you cannot get out in reverse - you must drive forward to clear the rollers, then back out over them again.)
Strapping cars into the rollers has more to do with controlling wheelspin than safety, if the car wants to climb the rollers it is probably being tested at the wrong acceleration rate.
Cars ARE usually run in a lower than 1:1 gear because of the roller speed.
Like I said, I hope this clears up some misconceptions.
From my experience a 253 making 83kW on LPG is more than acceptable.
As a comparison a VS or VT 5L auto goes 95-100kW, a good 308 with 286 Crane, extractors etc might go 145kW, a stock 202 goes 45kW.
Don't get too hung up on the numbers, if you want to know how much power the thing has then shift some weight down the quarter.
FWIW Who here would tie their car down when checking the timing in Park? And I guarantee the car was not actually in the rollers when this happened (the rear roller freewheels - only the front roller is loaded - you cannot get out in reverse - you must drive forward to clear the rollers, then back out over them again.)
Strapping cars into the rollers has more to do with controlling wheelspin than safety, if the car wants to climb the rollers it is probably being tested at the wrong acceleration rate.
Cars ARE usually run in a lower than 1:1 gear because of the roller speed.
Like I said, I hope this clears up some misconceptions.
#38
_Aquarius - LC_
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Posted 20 June 2006 - 04:11 PM
Totally agree with Struggler ^^
Hanging around at my engine builders from time to time,
I've seen 253's making around 80 rwkw mark, VN 5lauto 102rwkw
307 chev [mildly worked] 128rwkw, vk injected 202 78rwkw,vz alloytec
125rwkw, hz 308[mild lumpy] 120rwkw ,and many more, also witnessed
a few hugely powerful cars of all descriptions. My point is, it's surprizing to
some people to find out the actual power figure, at the treads.
my worked 202 at 114rwkw[152.2rwhp] is in pretty good company,
i think anyway!
Hanging around at my engine builders from time to time,
I've seen 253's making around 80 rwkw mark, VN 5lauto 102rwkw
307 chev [mildly worked] 128rwkw, vk injected 202 78rwkw,vz alloytec
125rwkw, hz 308[mild lumpy] 120rwkw ,and many more, also witnessed
a few hugely powerful cars of all descriptions. My point is, it's surprizing to
some people to find out the actual power figure, at the treads.
my worked 202 at 114rwkw[152.2rwhp] is in pretty good company,
i think anyway!
#39
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 21 June 2006 - 08:26 PM
Interesting facts there Struggler.
Yeah, a standard 202 is lucky to push 101 RWHP, and that would be on a good day, and a bit further down the track from Standard.
Yeah, a standard 202 is lucky to push 101 RWHP, and that would be on a good day, and a bit further down the track from Standard.
#40
MRLXSS
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 02:11 AM
interesting facts there guys, its amazing how much power etc is lost through the drive train, and how all these numbers HSV's etc claim to have....
I agree take it down the qtr and see how quick it really is....
Im keen to see wat my engine would make now, i would be pretty happy with anything over 120 by the sound of it...
Cheers guys
I agree take it down the qtr and see how quick it really is....
Im keen to see wat my engine would make now, i would be pretty happy with anything over 120 by the sound of it...
Cheers guys
#41
knoath
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 06:19 AM
Wow...... there's a few eye openers! Maybe the old girl isn't doing as bad as I thought!
Still.... 45kw out of a stock 202? I think the UC's in for some attention!
Anyone know what the dramas are for a V8 in a UC? Engineered of course! Chassis strengthened?
Still.... 45kw out of a stock 202? I think the UC's in for some attention!
Anyone know what the dramas are for a V8 in a UC? Engineered of course! Chassis strengthened?
#42
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 11:59 AM
I think you'll find that manufacturer's publish engine dyno figures, not chassis dyno figures. The figures are even worse for the Torries because they did it with no accessories hanging off the engine, i.e. 240HP for the 308 and 240+HP for the L34. Multiply by 0.75 for approximate rule of thumb RWHP, or use your HP figure at the rear wheels as an equivalent flywheel (engine) kW.
Also agree, quarter mile is a much better indicator, where you get the combined effects of torque and HP, must be why the ricers stick to the dyno and not the quarter.
Also agree, quarter mile is a much better indicator, where you get the combined effects of torque and HP, must be why the ricers stick to the dyno and not the quarter.
Edited by Yella SLuR, 22 June 2006 - 12:01 PM.
#43
MRLXSS
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 12:57 PM
So the manufacturers do a engine dyno test with all the access off? Like they wont have a Powersteering pump etc on? just the engine running?
The more and more i look at it i start realising that the Qtr mile is the only way of really tellin how tuff a car is.... and if you want to go further the Track is the only way to test the whole car.... The Dyno seems only good to tune the car to its optimum...
The more and more i look at it i start realising that the Qtr mile is the only way of really tellin how tuff a car is.... and if you want to go further the Track is the only way to test the whole car.... The Dyno seems only good to tune the car to its optimum...
#44
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 01:07 PM
Dr Terry know's more detail. I believe these days the SAE??? test is with accessories on, but in the old days it was with accessories off, hence you can't compare 70's sales literature with current day cars. It's confusing. Dr. Terry has a better clearer explanation for it.
#45
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Posted 23 June 2006 - 11:27 PM
On gas, your 253 is doing alright... My 179 makes 101.3kW at the wheels, but everyone's different, and the way people work their motors are different.
Keep pushing, your 253 has the potential to make more....
Keith
Keep pushing, your 253 has the potential to make more....
Keith
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