349 replies to this topic

[SmacT]

So sheer blind optimism didn't work. As I sadly suspected the bottom end is toast, including my new 6-piece camshaft (a custom solid job from the now-closed Clive Cams), shortened conrod, etc. A rod bolt broke and carnage ensued. Obviously. The more i stripped it, the more I found.

 

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The heads seem relatively okay, apart from where the piston smacked the valves, so need a bit chamber work and two new valves. I then pulled the engine I had sitting in the next project car. It's a standard bore VR 304 I bought for $500 before covid. After stripping it, it seems good, so it's off to the machinist for sonic testing, cleaning, etc to make sure it's good (the old one needed 8 new sleeves and a heap of other work to resurrect - will just keep it for now).

 

All going well I plan to go "back" to a 355, this time with four bolt mains, Crow hydraulic roller cam and a lower redline (ha ha), and use all the same bolt ons that survived, heads/Pro Paw intake mani, etc. Any recommendations on gear is welcome of course (I am sorted for engine builder and tuner), but at this stage going forged steel crank (can't decide which brand), callies rods, JP pistons and new arp stuff throughout. I am happy to step back the horsepower from the last engine, and reduce comp as well (looking for 10.8 or so, last one was in the high 11s) and have a reliable, strong street engine that holds together for the odd drag and drive event (don't care about ETs, just the fun of doing it).

 

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I am kinda excited about the new engine build, it was the one part of the car that wasn't new, not so excited by the budget... Hopefully will have it all sorted by the end of the year, but not rushing it. It seems a good time to upgrade the Haltech to a R3, but the budget says no. I will maybe sell a child if I can't ignore that idea.

 

[Shiney005]

Man, that's ugly. I had one let go at around 7,000 rpm once and it looked similar. I removed one head and pulled two pistons out of the same bore.

[SmacT]

Man, that's ugly. I had one let go at around 7,000 rpm once and it looked similar. I removed one head and pulled two pistons out of the same bore.

Ha ha, that's impressive. I was doing about 6700rpm and could hear things rattling around in the sump when I pulled the engine out, so knew things would be salty. Never seen a camshaft do that! Made it easy to remove...

[LXCHEV]

BUGGER!! Not nice to see Sam.

 

But terrific damage photos. There's something exciting about a post-mortem on a destroyed engine. Brings back my own fond (expensive) memories.

 

I like the direction you're heading in with engine 2.0.

[SmacT]

Ha ha - you're right Brett, i actually enjoyed stripping it and discovering all the damage - not so much when it all added up. I really, really hoped the block and crank had survived, but knew they were unlikely to have. As you say, we have all done it I guess.

BUGGER!! Not nice to see Sam.

 

But terrific damage photos. There's something exciting about a post-mortem on a destroyed engine. Brings back my own fond (expensive) memories.

 

I like the direction you're heading in with engine 2.0.

[neglectedtorana]

Hi Sam,

 

Thats a pretty major load of destruction, unfortunate and hope you aint too upset.

It does read like you have a good attitude to get the rebuild underway, hope it works out quickly and not terribly costly.

 

Cheers, Tom

How did the camshaft break like that?

I'm trying to imagine what happened but can't

[SmacT]

Hi Sam,

Thats a pretty major load of destruction, unfortunate and hope you aint too upset.
It does read like you have a good attitude to get the rebuild underway, hope it works out quickly and not terribly costly.

Cheers, Tom


How did the camshaft break like that?
I'm trying to imagine what happened but can't

Thanks Tom. I just accept that if I am going to send it down a runway for three days, stuff can happen. I've had all sorts of things blow up after years of motorcycle shenanigans. Not happy about it, but that's the risk of track stuff. If I just did cars and coffees, it wouldn't have happened, but I didn't build it for that. Hopefully she will be ready to go for Calder! Ha ha.

On the camshaft, When the rod broke, the piston hit a valve, which pushed the pushrod into the cam at pace and kaboom. Pushrod and YT roller rocker are fine. Bits of rod cap and piston flying around may have added to it. Never seen one in six pieces, but there you go!

Edited by SmacT, 03 June 2025 - 11:00 PM.

[LJ RB30]

Holy crap that’s a hand grenade !

[axistr]

So sheer blind optimism didn't work. As I sadly suspected the bottom end is toast, including my new 6-piece camshaft (a custom solid job from the now-closed Clive Cams), shortened conrod, etc. A rod bolt broke and carnage ensued. Obviously. The more i stripped it, the more I found.

 

Bugger Sam, I feel for you. I would be totally pissed off. I'm grad it hasn't got the better of you. I've probably just been very lucky as I've never blown an engine. I reckon your going the right way and destroking to 355 and lower comp. My 383 in the hatch runs 10.6 and I set the limiter to 6,200 RPM. When my son takes it out for the day (God help me) I throw the laptop on and set 5,600. The Piston speed and reciprocating mass is just to great on long stroke engines. Revving them much over 6,000 RPM defiantly reduces their use by date unless you spend mega bucks on exotic parts and have a good knowledge of what works on that particular engine brand and model. Not many O.E blocks were ever designed to take regular high output and high RPM punishment, especially ones designed in the seventies.

 

My favorite engine capacity is the 327ci. 4" inch bore and 3.25' stroke. I built a Holden 308 with a SBC large journal 327 crank back in the early 80s for a mate. It made a reliable 370hp. Modest these days but back in the early eighties these were pretty good numbers. The owner regularly dragged it at Castlereagh, drove it home and used it for his daily. What surprises me about the 327 is the amount of torque and horsepower they produce easily. They also get through the revs so quickly like a 283ci and still happy to sit at 6,800 for long periods. I like my 383 and has torque like a truck from 1.500 RPM but at the end of the day if I had my time again I would build a 327ci for it. I would probably go SBC as good parts are available everywhere and cheap to build reliable engines if you know what your doing. Lots of smaller capacity engines run rings around 350 &383 engines due to the ability to get through the revs so quickly and suit light to medium weight cars with low diff gears. 

 

Looking at the photos, it looks like one of the rods has let go and taken a section of the camshaft out first before going on to take out just about every other rotating part. The valves would have been hit due to the incorrect valve timing when the cam twisted and broke.   

 

I'd go for a kidney sale first mate. Kids don't really like being traded. I regularly tell my son when he gives me the shits that we only had him for spare parts for his older sister.

 

Cheers Lenny.   

[SmacT]

Yeah mate, an old engine, long stroke and high revs were always a risk. I knew that and did it anyway. Ha ha. And yeah, a good chance to look at options. Unique Performance near you (Windsor) has the second block now, hope it's okay for a base. If not, back to the drawing board. Would love to go a Chev engine in something one day, but not in a Torana for me (no offence, just personal preference! They make a lot of sense). 

 

Interestingly, UP is suggesting 12:1 comp for a pump fuel 355. This will be a discovery journey, like it all has been. Ha ha. The heads and inlet mani I have are all set up for a high lift cam and lots of revs which is a problem as I don't want to change them (can't afford it) - I don't want to go more than 6500rpm peak power-wise with this one, so will muck around with piston/cam combo options if the block gets the okay.

 

Or just build a mild 5lt myself. Hard to go backwards in power though...

 

 

Bugger Sam, I feel for you. I would be totally pissed off. I'm grad it hasn't got the better of you. I've probably just been very lucky as I've never blown an engine. I reckon your going the right way and destroking to 355 and lower comp. My 383 in the hatch runs 10.6 and I set the limiter to 6,200 RPM. When my son takes it out for the day (God help me) I throw the laptop on and set 5,600. The Piston speed and reciprocating mass is just to great on long stroke engines. Revving them much over 6,000 RPM defiantly reduces their use by date unless you spend mega bucks on exotic parts and have a good knowledge of what works on that particular engine brand and model. Not many O.E blocks were ever designed to take regular high output and high RPM punishment, especially ones designed in the seventies.

 

My favorite engine capacity is the 327ci. 4" inch bore and 3.25' stroke. I built a Holden 308 with a SBC large journal 327 crank back in the early 80s for a mate. It made a reliable 370hp. Modest these days but back in the early eighties these were pretty good numbers. The owner regularly dragged it at Castlereagh, drove it home and used it for his daily. What surprises me about the 327 is the amount of torque and horsepower they produce easily. They also get through the revs so quickly like a 283ci and still happy to sit at 6,800 for long periods. I like my 383 and has torque like a truck from 1.500 RPM but at the end of the day if I had my time again I would build a 327ci for it. I would probably go SBC as good parts are available everywhere and cheap to build reliable engines if you know what your doing. Lots of smaller capacity engines run rings around 350 &383 engines due to the ability to get through the revs so quickly and suit light to medium weight cars with low diff gears. 

 

Looking at the photos, it looks like one of the rods has let go and taken a section of the camshaft out first before going on to take out just about every other rotating part. The valves would have been hit due to the incorrect valve timing when the cam twisted and broke.   

 

I'd go for a kidney sale first mate. Kids don't really like being traded. I regularly tell my son when he gives me the shits that we only had him for spare parts for his older sister.

 

Cheers Lenny.   

[Shiney005]

My favorite engine capacity is the 327ci. 4" inch bore and 3.25' stroke. I built a Holden 308 with a SBC large journal 327 crank back in the early 80s for a mate. It made a reliable 370hp. Modest these days but back in the early eighties these were pretty good numbers. The owner regularly dragged it at Castlereagh, drove it home and used it for his daily. What surprises me about the 327 is the amount of torque and horsepower they produce easily. They also get through the revs so quickly like a 283ci and still happy to sit at 6,800 for long periods.

I had an offset ground crank that gave 332 CI in the early 90's. It went hard and loved a rev.

[axistr]

Yeah mate, an old engine, long stroke and high revs were always a risk. I knew that and did it anyway. Ha ha. And yeah, a good chance to look at options. Unique Performance near you (Windsor) has the second block now, hope it's okay for a base. If not, back to the drawing board. Would love to go a Chev engine in something one day, but not in a Torana for me (no offence, just personal preference! They make a lot of sense). 

 

Interestingly, UP is suggesting 12:1 comp for a pump fuel 355. This will be a discovery journey, like it all has been. Ha ha. The heads and inlet mani I have are all set up for a high lift cam and lots of revs which is a problem as I don't want to change them (can't afford it) - I don't want to go more than 6500rpm peak power-wise with this one, so will muck around with piston/cam combo options if the block gets the okay.

 

Or just build a mild 5lt myself. Hard to go backwards in power though...

 

Just my two bobs worth, my view with compressions in the 12.1 range is it's really pushing the boundaries for pump fuel with early design engines. It's in that easy to detonate range. If detonation starts at 6,000 RPM it's all over in less than a blink of an eye. Everything has to be spot on. If the fuel in the tank is compromised a fraction due to being a few months old your looking down the barrel of another anchor. There are a few factory engines out there these days running 12-1 compression ratios, however they are designed from the sump up to do so and generally have all the good bits like six bolt main caps, short stroke, good rod angle ratio, overhead cams and cam phasing, hemispherical combustion chambers, direct injection and computers that better control everything. 

 

Maybe it's me getting old Sam, but after 45 years in the trade you get to see it all and learn from it. For street cars good low down torque and mid range power makes a good reliable cruiser that you can drive anywhere any time without costing you a fortune every twelve months.       

[SmacT]

Yep, I was a bit surprised when he suggested that. The engine I blew up was 13:1 comp apparently... But yeah, he does them for a living and has three Toranas with Holden engines in them, so perhaps has a method that works! I will absorb all info and suggestions, then make a call, lots of ways to skin a cat. I do hear you on the street cruiser, which is what I originally aimed for, Toranas are too exxy to put into a wall these days. Open to all ideas right now. Will probs end up with a new Bullet billet block, and 2500hp. Ha ha. Joking.

 

Just my two bobs worth, my view with compressions in the 12.1 range is it's really pushing the boundaries for pump fuel with early design engines. It's in that easy to detonate range. If detonation starts at 6,000 RPM it's all over in less than a blink of an eye. Everything has to be spot on. If the fuel in the tank is compromised a fraction due to being a few months old your looking down the barrel of another anchor. There are a few factory engines out there these days running 12-1 compression ratios, however they are designed from the sump up to do so and generally have all the good bits like six bolt main caps, short stroke, good rod angle ratio, overhead cams and cam phasing, hemispherical combustion chambers, direct injection and computers that better control everything. 

 

Maybe it's me getting old Sam, but after 45 years in the trade you get to see it all and learn from it. For street cars good low down torque and mid range power makes a good reliable cruiser that you can drive anywhere any time without costing you a fortune every twelve months.       

[Shiney005]

https://www.torque-p...e_paw_block.htm

[neglectedtorana]

Great attitude Sam,

Well done on keeping going and hope you get the new engine ready in time.

[SmacT]

I had a quick chat to the engine builder on the 12:1 comp - he said with the alloy heads I have (ported YT -9 jobbies) and good access to 98 PULP, it works great, as long as the cam grind suits, etc. We will talk more later if the block checks out, but yeah, learning heaps. I am wondering what happens if I am out the back of nowhere and can only put 95 or 91 in it..? I do have some big drives planned for next year, so need to think about that.

 

I can honestly see why people LS or carby-Chev their Torries - it's cheaper and easier to make reliable power with those platforms, despite the other headaches. I am committed to keeping it Holden, but the next project, probably not. 

 

Anyway, can't wait to get back to this carry-on.

 

 

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[Heath]

Oh golly. Just had the heebeejeebees reading this update. Very sorry to learn of this one.

 

You've sure got a great attitude about it. I was a bit less chirpy when rebuilding my 383 late last year. Haven't posted that... haha

[SmacT]

Oh, I have my moments! It's a heap of work I didn't want to do, but anyway. Better car in the end and all that stuff. Thanks mate. And please post it - it's cathartic! Plus engine re-build pics are grouse.

 

Oh golly. Just had the heebeejeebees reading this update. Very sorry to learn of this one.

 

You've sure got a great attitude about it. I was a bit less chirpy when rebuilding my 383 late last year. Haven't posted that... haha

[rexy]

Interestingly when I was getting the BBC redone a couple of years ago both Powerhouse and Dandy engines said they had gone away from using hydraulic roller set ups for anything except a relatively mild combo. Both prefer solid flat tappet cams. Dandy engines regrinds the lifter bases for all their solids and haven’t had issues.

 

Having said that, the Holden 383 in my hatch is now 20 years old and still runs the same hydraulic roller setup and hasn't missed a beat in nearly 100,000km.

 

And to add to the carnage pics here are some of the fragments retrieved from my old 308.

 

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This happened at 1300 rpm 100 meters from home after a 2 hour drive. As usual it looked like a rod bolt gave up and took everything else out, including the block.

 

[Shiney005]

This happened at around 250 kph. Bloody lucky it didn't vent the block to the outside and drop the oil. It took 2 kilometres to roll to a stop.

 

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[SmacT]

Bloody hell!

 

This happened at around 250 kph. Bloody lucky it didn't vent the block to the outside and drop the oil. It took 2 kilometres to roll to a stop.

 

Z13 (408).jpg

[LXCHEV]

I need to jump onto the carnage train too.... here's my 383. I stupidly didn't upgrade valve springs when I changed from a baby hydraulic to a pretty meaty solid...

 

The oil change...

 

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Head / valve:

 

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And the money shots... the block:

 

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Happy memories!!!!

[Ice]

I need to jump onto the carnage train too.... here's my 383. I stupidly didn't upgrade valve springs when I changed from a baby hydraulic to a pretty meaty solid...

 

The oil change...

 

383_bang_bang_01.jpg

 

Head / valve:

 

383_bang_bang_02.jpg

 

And the money shots... the block:

 

383_bang_bang_03.jpg

 

383_bang_bang_04.jpg

 

Happy memories!!!!

Boom 

[SmacT]

We need a munted engine photo thread... Wow. When they go...

[rodomo]

We need a munted engine photo thread... Wow. When they go...

I think there is one? Forget what its's called though?