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Chemical dipping

Started by _sloffador_ , Jul 01 2013 02:02 PM

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33 replies to this topic

#1 _sloffador_

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 02:02 PM

Hey Guys

Has anyone had any thing to do with acid dipping to get rid of rust and paint removal

Im thinking of getting it done but have had mixed reports on this

Any help or ideas would be appreciated

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#2 GML-31

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 04:46 PM

I would prefer molasses dipping if it was me

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#3 _sjp67m_

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 07:37 PM

Im no expert but some forum memebers have raised a problem with dipping... what about the areas that arent able to be painted properly like inside or sills ect but have had contact with the acid ?

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#4 Uncle Chop Chop

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 09:51 PM

Unblock the drain holes.

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#5 _sloffador_

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 10:12 PM

Yeh I thought about the parts that coudnt be painted

But isn't that the way they started out anyway, wernt they originally sprayed not dipped so paint woundnt have got to these parts anyway

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#6 _sjp67m_

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 10:19 PM

Yeh I thought about the parts that coudnt be painted
But isn't that the way they started out anyway, wernt they originally sprayed not dipped so paint woundnt have got to these parts anyway

Yes but now they have been stripped (basically bare metaled and left exposed)

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#7 Pop's-SS

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Name:Barry
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Car:1976 Mandarin Red SS Hatchback
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Posted 12 July 2013 - 04:24 PM

I would prefer molasses dipping if it was me

Dip me in molasses and feed me to the virgins :party:

Would never use acid dipping as said, it would get into places you can't see and rust even more.

Would prefer glass or bead blasting and would slosh/spray Lanotec oil (lanolin oil) into everywhere you can't reach.

It will stop the rust from going any further.

I did this with my SS and the missus's SL Hatch

Barry

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#8 _LXSS350_

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 11:03 PM

The problem with chemicals is you need to neutralise them and remove them from all nooks and crannies. I am with pops-ss in that I like glass blasting as it is delicate and doesn't generate heat or distortion on unsupported panels (unless your a complete klutz).

Obvious we are talking a complete strip of the car. The biggest issue is removing any scale or rubbish on internal surfaces where you cant see (let alone blast with a normal nozzle/blast set-up). I found that by adapting various length very heavy wall tube with a 45 degree blast nozzle (shown below) to your blasters trigger allowed blasting garnet inside pillars, chassis rail and sill panels etc. Some areas require cutting access panels but others like the hatch pillar can be accessed via tail light plenum. Then using thinned down underbody sealer with long hose and fan nozzle you can drown the bare unseen internal metal. Using an inspection camera allows you to make sure you have those factory untreated areas covered in paint and with care will keep the metal termites away from your torrie. Remember to make sure the factory drain points are not blocked and yes getting the media out is a pia.(but better to suffer that pain than suffer from rust)

Edited by LXSS350, 12 July 2013 - 11:09 PM.

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#9 _The Baron_

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 10:12 AM

Wish I had take a photo of the 2 front guards and the bonnet that were written off by media blasting. The flare bolt holes were elongated and the bonnet skin stretched such that the top surface of the bonnet blistered outwards where the ribs below did not protect the skin. This was after they were hand stripped with paint stripper to begin with. The media blasting was supposed to only clean out the nooks and crannies.Not all operators are brain dead like this guy though.

Also whilst I am no expert, I have also heard that the process can work harden the metal which may sound good but actually can make the metal brittle and more inclined to crack at high flex/stress points like where little torana (TA - LJ) front pillars join the roof or body.

With regards to "dipping", I know of an Persian sand L31 M40 SS that is no longer with us due to that process!

At the end of the day there is nothing better than the old elbow grease with paint stripper and sanding discs (gently)!

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#10 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 10:43 AM

I tend to adree with the general consensus of this thread.

I would not dip a car personally.

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#11 _Viper_

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 11:33 AM

What if you could dip the car to chemically strip it... then another tank that neutralizes the chemical and then another tank with some sort of coating (e-coat or some other primer) ?

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#12 TerrA LX

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 12:24 PM

^ Problem is, acid needs water to neutralise it, acid is "thinner" than water so all your lap joints are still wet with acid, I too know of a hatch in heave due to rusting away acid dipping the shell.

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#13 Uncle Chop Chop

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 09:28 PM

^ Problem is, acid needs water to neutralise it, acid is "thinner" than water so all your lap joints are still wet with acid, I too know of a hatch in heave due to rusting away acid dipping the shell.

Sounds like you failed high school chemistry.

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#14 _LXSS350_

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 12:40 AM

Barron of course you can stuff anything up if you are a bull at a gate. The best way to eliminate ape like workmanship is when the person paying the bills is on the end of the blaster. Its funny how care is an automatic process when your footing the bills and its your car. Seriously imo there are far more dodgy businesses with poor workmanship than there are good ones. I glass beaded one of my 1/4 panels and nos sill panel in prep for fitting and if your where going to distort or ruin a panel the the unsupported 1/4 should be easy to destroy.

One thing you don't want to destroy is years of building up your stock of NOS panels (that have become rare). The one thing is glass is about $30 per bag vs garnet at about $13 so it gets expensive doing a whole car.

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Edited by LXSS350, 15 July 2013 - 12:45 AM.

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#15 neglectedtorana

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Name:Tom
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Posted 15 July 2013 - 02:59 AM

I like the idea of chemical dipping and tried to get it done to my LX but couldnt find anyone in Sydney that could do it

Friend of mine who has a few Porsches in the UK has had it done to one he restored and after the dipping to remove paint, rust, everything it is dipped in an etch type primer so all the internal areas that you would not be able to get to are coated and sealed

Sounded great to me but think I would need to buy a few old fibreglass swimming pools to do it

The shops I spoke to in Sydney that would do it did not have a good suggestion for how to coat the areas you cant get to

One suggested making a nozzle on the end of a tube and poking inside sills etc to spray them

Sorry this does not help but just for info

The product my friend used for the coating was Dinitrol

Cheers, Tom

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#16 _Quagmire_

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 03:53 PM

i used to do galvanizing which involved acid dipping back in the old days
the tanks needed to do a car would be huge and cost a fortune if you could even find someone willing to do it
wet blasting with a 45 degree nossle may be a option
when dry you could try a 50/50 mix of tyechol
(or whatever it's called,it's a rust proofer/converter made by castrol)
thinners and fish oil

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#17 _The Baron_

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 04:47 PM

Barron of course you can stuff anything up if you are a bull at a gate. The best way to eliminate ape like workmanship is when the person paying the bills is on the end of the blaster. Its funny how care is an automatic process when your footing the bills and its your car. Seriously imo there are far more dodgy businesses with poor workmanship than there are good ones. I glass beaded one of my 1/4 panels and nos sill panel in prep for fitting and if your where going to distort or ruin a panel the the unsupported 1/4 should be easy to destroy.

One thing you don't want to destroy is years of building up your stock of NOS panels (that have become rare). The one thing is glass is about $30 per bag vs garnet at about $13 so it gets expensive doing a whole car.

Nice collection on the shed wall.

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#18 _leo040_

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 06:40 PM

Had an LJ XU1 dipped in Albury. The result was so good the guy doing the panels/paint is sending some of his own cars up there.

Not a cheap way to go but the results are excellent. Following stripping, the body is dipped again to prevent corrosion but this a only short term fix (up to 6 months). Cavity wax has been sprayed into cavities etc.

No leaching due to the way the process operates and the chemicals used.

I guess time will tell, but there has been no evidence of residual chemical leaching. Car currently sitting in primer just to monitor this and so far (more than 6 months down the track), no sign.

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#19 _sloffador_

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 07:27 PM

Thanks for all the coments guys they have been educational

The post that I find interesting in from Bruce

Are we talking about Re-coat in Albury because that's the place im getting it done

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#20 _sloffador_

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 06:33 PM

Had a couple of panels done and they really come up clean

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#21 _sloffador_

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 01:04 PM

A few pics of door and boot I had done

all clean with any rust stopped

these panels have been dipped in a solution to neutralise chemical and give them a coating which gives you about 12-18 months from surface

rust starting depending how you store them of course

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#22 _Viper_

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 10:22 PM

Did they drill the holes in the boot skin?

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#23 _sloffador_

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 11:19 PM

No they are the original bobtail mounting holes

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#24 _LXSS350_

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 11:24 PM

What sort of chemicals did they use? How hot was the bath and what is the surface finish like (i.e. corrosive damage?)

Biggest issue is the hidden impossible to paint areas and the raw metal between factory spot welded panels.

The answer:

http://www.prlog.org...car-owners.html

Unfortunately we don't have such a facility in Australia available for restoration people. Such a shame as its what we restorers need after we have fought the very long hard battle against rust. I am pretty keen to try galvanising some panels and if it works as I hope I might try a whole shell. All modern cars use gal steel and then into a dip tank for electrostatic primer.