Chassis
#1
Posted 01 July 2006 - 08:15 PM
So my question is, would it be ok to weld the rails or is it some sort of high tensile steel??
Alternativley i will probably have to fit the engine from under the car but the middle/sump area of the front cross member is a little fat, top to bottom (some would say the fricken engine is just too bloody big lol) so the next question is if i go this route, can a front cross member around the sump area be safely cut and welded to make room for the engine block and sump or is the steel some sort of high tensile steel??
Obviously there is a limit on how much material can be removed for obvious reasons and some extra bracing would be required.
I believe Liter8 did something similar to his rails.
Kind regards
#2
Posted 01 July 2006 - 08:45 PM
What you guys reckon??
Edited by Bart, 01 July 2006 - 08:48 PM.
#3
Posted 01 July 2006 - 09:50 PM
#4
Posted 01 July 2006 - 11:44 PM
no offence but if you have to ask if i can weld something maybe you should speak to an engineer first, especially if rego is going to be an issue, might save u some heart ache.
#5 _dannylxss_
Posted 01 July 2006 - 11:51 PM
#6
Posted 02 July 2006 - 12:55 AM
I spoke to an engineer today and he isnt keen on cutting the rails, although there is another engineer who i think may not mind.
Anyhow i will see if i can space the rails from the cross member.
The area where its fouling is the engine is a fraction too wide and so it wont fit between the rails as im lowering the engine in, but from top to bottpm of the engine it looks as though (with measuring) the widest point of the engine will fit between the bottom of the rails and on top of the cross member with 1-1.5 inch spacers between the rails and member. I may find out tomorrow.
Edited by Bart, 02 July 2006 - 12:57 AM.
#7
Posted 02 July 2006 - 01:13 AM
anyhow if u talken the mono chassis rails (body) then they are m/s, but im not keen on having to mod them, this is one of the most crutial parts of the car as mounts here and the load is quite high, but im sure if this is not what u talken bout as the block would have to be quite wide to foul here. that only leaves the crossmember and if modded to an engineer standard i dont see a problem with minor mods, but im concerned already one engineer has said no.
maybe some pics would be in order before further comments.
not trying to discourage you, take it as constructive critisisum.
#8
Posted 02 July 2006 - 01:28 AM
Ill try take some pics.
#9
Posted 02 July 2006 - 08:40 AM
Where do you plan to get that 1 to 1 1/2"back from to get the front of the car down where it should be? by lowering the suspension?
If so all of your suspension points will be moving that far as well and you will be using up some your suspension travel to compensate.
if you drop the rear mount of the subframe down very far you will drop off the bottom of the chassis rails.
Just a few things to consider.
On the subframes, I have seen a few of these modded to go into other cars or to fit big engines etc and generally they look a lot weaker - they get scalloped out and then a little bigger plate welded in or something like that but a lot of their original strength would be due to the fact they are tube like in cross section.
I explored if I could go a fabricated front subframe but no one would comply it.
I found similar reaction from the certification guys about modded crossmembers.
The rules here in qld are crap for that sort of mod - there are no codes to classify the mod under so no-one will approve them.
M@
#10
Posted 02 July 2006 - 09:19 AM
go and pay an engineer to tell you the right way. It don't matter what we all think, it's got to be done right. The engineer is the one who is going to sign his life away on the work.^^^^^^^^^^^^^ save your self time and effort and consuld a engineer first as you will know what you can and cant do
#11
Posted 02 July 2006 - 10:19 AM
Yes youre right, just wanted other ideas before i go back to him.go and pay an engineer to tell you the right way. It don't matter what we all think, it's got to be done right. The engineer is the one who is going to sign his life away on the work.^^^^^^^^^^^^^ save your self time and effort and consuld a engineer first as you will know what you can and cant do
#12
Posted 02 July 2006 - 03:17 PM
#13 _doucmyuc_
Posted 02 July 2006 - 09:47 PM
Ive seen it on an lx track car where theres a certain way in which they brace the two rails togethers and also strengthen each rail individually so they can be cut reweled and hold greater front end stiffness.
Just out of curiosity how are you going to mount your manifolds/extractors in such tiny space?
would love to see pics of hows its progressing
#14
Posted 03 July 2006 - 01:11 AM
I was worried about this also but looking at it tonight that is the least of the problems fortunatly.
#15
Posted 03 July 2006 - 01:13 AM
Yes agreed but will the engineer like this idea as much as i do???one thing also is, you may be able to add a front rail stregnthening kit.
Ive seen it on an lx track car where theres a certain way in which they brace the two rails togethers and also strengthen each rail individually so they can be cut reweled and hold greater front end stiffness.
Just out of curiosity how are you going to mount your manifolds/extractors in such tiny space?
would love to see pics of hows its progressing
Im still toying with it so i should come up with something soon i hope
#16
Posted 03 July 2006 - 01:15 AM
#17
Posted 03 July 2006 - 01:43 AM
Yeah sorry mate theres not much to photograph yet, i have to pull out the front cross member and lift the motor in from under the car into the bay, apparently the new Fords do it this way for there quad cam V8's??pics??????
Anyway im not keen on pulling out the member as the bolts which hold the member also hold the chassis jig which i dont like to lossen untill the other sill is welded on, ill see if i can manage pulling it off without disturbing the jig too much, as im itching to get this bitch in.
#18
Posted 03 July 2006 - 09:43 PM
#19
Posted 03 July 2006 - 11:00 PM
#20
Posted 03 July 2006 - 11:00 PM
Oh I see what you mean, insted of spacing the member from the rails i should cut the sump, I have taken the sump off totally as i trial fit the motor.
Edited by Bart, 03 July 2006 - 11:03 PM.
#21
Posted 03 July 2006 - 11:05 PM
I have HQ stub axles so that lowers the car approx 1 inch, with a longer springs alreaady in i can get the suspension travel back somewhat.G'day Bart,
Where do you plan to get that 1 to 1 1/2"back from to get the front of the car down where it should be? by lowering the suspension?
If so all of your suspension points will be moving that far as well and you will be using up some your suspension travel to compensate.
if you drop the rear mount of the subframe down very far you will drop off the bottom of the chassis rails.
Just a few things to consider.
On the subframes, I have seen a few of these modded to go into other cars or to fit big engines etc and generally they look a lot weaker - they get scalloped out and then a little bigger plate welded in or something like that but a lot of their original strength would be due to the fact they are tube like in cross section.
I explored if I could go a fabricated front subframe but no one would comply it.
I found similar reaction from the certification guys about modded crossmembers.
The rules here in qld are crap for that sort of mod - there are no codes to classify the mod under so no-one will approve them.
M@
#22
Posted 03 July 2006 - 11:37 PM
maybe take a shot pointing at the porblem with the rail or install a template (cardboard) etc.
we are dieing to help!
Edited by ALX76, 03 July 2006 - 11:39 PM.
#23
Posted 04 July 2006 - 12:49 AM
lolstill cant see (pics) the problem yet!
maybe take a shot pointing at the porblem with the rail or install a template (cardboard) etc.
we are dieing to help!
Thanks mate sorry guys, i still need to modify the jig as its in the way of the engine going in from under the car/engine bay, i have to cut the ends of the jig off then i can get down to business AND ill take pics.
Christ i hope it fits this way lol
#24
Posted 04 July 2006 - 01:13 AM
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#25
Posted 04 July 2006 - 01:50 AM
u need some heavy mods to strengthen if you perform this "notch" especially at the rear were they curve down to the chassis connector otherwise the car can fold up on you.
better if you can lower the motor as you suggest even going to the extent of a new Xmember.
Edited by ALX76, 04 July 2006 - 01:51 AM.
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