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The Alloy 9 Port

Started by SA EH , Jun 01 2014 10:58 AM

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86 replies to this topic

#26 N/A-PWR

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 02:14 PM

Great work Phil,

looking forward to pictures of the finished hybrid.

Hi. I've got 6 weeks to wait for mine.. The pics show the first casting that was cut up to see thicknesses....they have thickened the mould up since. The inlet valve has a 60 thou offset and the ex valve is 40 thou offset.. thicker rocker cover rails for rocker clearance. ports are bigger than std and a different shape. spring seats are 650 thou thick. you have to install the guides and valve seats.Im looking forward to play with my new toy. Phil

various 2012 163.JPG

various 2012 168.JPG

various 2012 169.JPG

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#27 LC-GTR-1969

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 08:19 PM

So where do u actually buy these heads and how much for a head with valves fitted but no rockers etc?

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#28 LC-GTR-1969

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 08:25 PM

Sorry just re read original post so can see contact number... But what about a firm price with valves? Cheers

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#29 _repco_

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Posted 28 May 2016 - 11:17 AM

I did not ask about a complete head price. my cost is $3500 for the bear head and a bag of guides. No inserts. Phil

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#30 LC-GTR-1969

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Posted 28 May 2016 - 11:22 AM

It will be interesting to see what it can be ported to... Is 220cfm possible?

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#31 _repco_

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Posted 28 May 2016 - 11:25 AM

maybe a bit more I hope. Im going to golfball this one. Im also going to ask Ian next time I speak to him. About the exhaust port thickness to see if a round port can be achieved.

Edited by repco, 28 May 2016 - 11:34 AM.

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#32 LC-GTR-1969

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Posted 28 May 2016 - 11:35 AM

Yeah I figure if they are getting about 205cfm out of 9 ports, this head should at least go 15cfm more

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#33 _repco_

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Posted 28 May 2016 - 11:44 AM

I have my fingers and toes crossed. LOL . We will see what happens with the texture in the inlet port. to what I get.

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#34 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 28 May 2016 - 11:54 AM

maybe a bit more I hope. Im going to golfball this one. Im also going to ask Ian next time I speak to him. About the exhaust port thickness to see if a round port can be achieved.

Golfball dimples are made that way because they are non-directional, which of course they'd have to be on a spinning ball. They aren't the ideal finish drag-wise; just a workable compromise.

For something like a port that has directional flow you'll get better results with very closely spaced shallow grooves perpendicular to the flow. Google "riblets" for more info. There is good information on proportioning in http://torroja.dmt.u...philtrans11.pdf but don't expect to see the same drag reductions in a port as they measured on a large flat surface. They've been tested many times on cylinder head ports and while they do give a measurable flow improvement they're generally not considered to be worth the effort. CNC porting can be configured to give this kind of finish much more easily.

Edited by oldjohnno, 28 May 2016 - 12:01 PM.

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#35 _repco_

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Posted 28 May 2016 - 12:25 PM

Hi. I know what you mean about the 90 degree lines in the ports, I use this finish on most ports. Regarding the golf ball ports. the engine will be used in the upper rev range never under 4500 revs. the ball finish makes the air less turbulent at the port wall thus creating faster straighter air. Not little swirls A golf ball in a wind tunnel NOT spinning with straight air promotes straighter faster air speeds. There is lots of good youtube vids on this. and F1 test results. Thank you for your input Johnno. Id like to have a chat some time. Phil PS I do use a CNC 5 axis.

Edited by repco, 28 May 2016 - 12:35 PM.

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#36 LC-GTR-1969

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Posted 28 May 2016 - 01:23 PM

Please make sure you reply back with your flow readings when you are done!

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#37 _repco_

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Posted 28 May 2016 - 01:24 PM

no probs

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#38 SA EH

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Posted 28 May 2016 - 03:10 PM

Yeah I figure if they are getting about 205cfm out of 9 ports, this head should at least go 15cfm more

I reckon the likes of Kevin & a couple of others around here are getting 210cfm & above out of their 9 ports already. If something like the alloy head didn't go 230ish I'd be surprised.

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#39 TK383

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Posted 28 May 2016 - 03:23 PM

Don't bother will golf ball, or any other 'special' surface finish, I've always made best power with a simple 60 grit sanding roll finish over most of the port along with polished short turns.

It's a subject that has been hashed out many times, on the sort of engines we're dealing with it makes no measurable difference anywhere in the rpm range, you have to be looking at 'non ideal' port layouts in 2+hp/ci to see any benefit from differing surface finishes.

Neither prostock nor F1 use a dimpled finish, nor a particularly rough finish.

Port shape is what counts.

Basically any finish that isn't real fine is gonna work out just dandy.

Edited by TK383, 28 May 2016 - 03:24 PM.

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#40 LC-GTR-1969

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Posted 28 May 2016 - 04:02 PM

Great thread here.. Just out of curiosity, have any of you guys got some data on the port volume of a decent, say 185cfm-200cfm 9 port inlet garage? 150ml?

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#41 warrenm

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Posted 28 May 2016 - 04:54 PM

Yeah I figure if they are getting about 205cfm out of 9 ports, this head should at least go 15cfm more

205 seems a bit short, how's 212cfm sound.

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#42 LC-GTR-1969

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Posted 28 May 2016 - 05:37 PM

205 seems a bit short, how's 212cfm sound.

Thats great flow... is that what your head flowed?

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#43 warrenm

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Posted 28 May 2016 - 11:06 PM

Yes.

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#44 LC-GTR-1969

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Posted 29 May 2016 - 07:35 AM

Great stuff mate... Do you have any idea of the shared inlet port volume?

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#45 warrenm

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Posted 29 May 2016 - 04:36 PM

Great stuff mate... Do you have any idea of the shared inlet port volume?

No idea, I didn't measure it.I think there's more to it than the volume of the port, more about metal removal in the correct places.

Edited by warrenm, 29 May 2016 - 04:38 PM.

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#46 LC-GTR-1969

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Posted 29 May 2016 - 04:55 PM

Yeah agree about the correct removal in the right places... I am interested in the port size more-so to compare the 9 port shared inlet port size to the single port size of the IRVING and JZED and the like. Mainly for curiosity to punch into EA Pro when playing with data. I have no spare 9 port heads here to test...

Does your head have the bolt boss completely removed to make one big open port?

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#47 warrenm

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Posted 29 May 2016 - 06:02 PM

Bolt boss has been removed, but replaced with a moly tube.

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#48 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 29 May 2016 - 06:45 PM

Did a bit of looking around at Ian Moodie/Kit Cullens other products today......

Recon I would do a LOT of research before buying one of these heads.

Cheers.

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#49 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 29 May 2016 - 07:47 PM

Yeah agree about the correct removal in the right places... I am interested in the port size more-so to compare the 9 port shared inlet port size to the single port size of the IRVING and JZED and the like. Mainly for curiosity to punch into EA Pro when playing with data. I have no spare 9 port heads here to test...

Does your head have the bolt boss completely removed to make one big open port?

I wouldn't expect EA Pro to be able to do anything sensible with siamese ports. It'll give you numbers precise to 2 decimal places but they'll be pure fiction...

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#50 _STRAIGHTLINEMICK_

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 08:52 AM

Has anyone here played with filling the port opening floor with a bolt in infill to reduce the cross-sectional area and guide airflow so that it flows down to the valve and try to use more of the valve area.
I have tried this on a 12 port and got a small improvement on a port which is a bit on the small side .A 9 port may show more of an improvement.