Hey Grant, you do realise your front suspension doesn't have any compression bump stops???
Rocket the not so GTR or XU1 !
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_Agent 34_
, Jul 08 2014 08:28 PM
772 replies to this topic
#351
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Posted 31 January 2016 - 09:39 PM
#352
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Posted 31 January 2016 - 09:44 PM
Hey Grant, you do realise your front suspension doesn't have any compression bump stops???
Remember that odd UCA that had the platform on the top, the 1969 - March 1970 LC UCA. Well, hate to say mate but looks like it wasn't the wrong UCA for your crossmember. You appear to have the rest of the 1969 - March 1970 crossmember that goes with it.
Edited by S pack, 31 January 2016 - 09:45 PM.
#353
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Posted 31 January 2016 - 10:05 PM
Wicked Grant, loving where the torrie's at now mate 
#354
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Posted 03 February 2016 - 07:18 PM
jonesy - i still have the german thong racer badge sitting on my desk - must send to SA ! will happen next week ha
Ive got some weird stuff going on with the brakes over the last few meets, their warping the disks. it's pissing me off big time but that's racing.
I have been to a lot of people talking and trying to ask questions about why how and why
the rules of NC only allow a ventilated disk, not crossed drilled NOR grooved and to the standard outside diameter of the OEM holden - which limits the disc you can use
I run a ventilated disk rotor on a volvo cast iron caliper.
Hanra - kindly allowed me to purchase his Rebel wheel - thanks brad - I'm going to flog the shit out of them in 20 days.- i think that the rebels will allow more air flow through the spokes to some degress - but the main thing is that they are 7" and not 6" which gives me a wider tread and patch for the tyre. - much appreciate on this brad.
after all my discussion with people it seems that the " heat the pad developed, the rotor cannot handle the heat as the only disc that can be modified is an old school disc - DBA don't make a set , the cast iron caliper holds heat, Vs the small cool down period of most tracks - causes the issues of warping the disc's
Ive talked to all the people I know and brake pads vary between the users but the end result dosent' equal the pad use which is weird - for instance - there are three combos
same wheels - different pads
different wheels 1 same pads
different wheels different pads
so it's a mixed basket - now the pad are $440 plus so changing pads is expensive + a disc machine
Dave - wagga nsw OR piquet vic - or dan Wa - give me a PM with your thoughts on this or solutions.
I have a set of air dams which i got made up 3 months ago which i will fit to direct fresh air to the disc - I think it's the cool down time on the tracks don't allow enough time for the front brakes to achieve a temp which will not affect.
booked the dyno for tuesday to run in the new motor. not sure if i will get to FOSC ( but will try) for a shake down
wakefield is the big hit out the next week after FOSC
G
on more mill - must keep going but a bit tired.
#355
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Posted 03 February 2016 - 08:18 PM
I'll give ya a msg tomorrow mate with few things i had get on top of. . Unfortunately though with the rules we have it's hard to get life out of the brakes. . Car's looking sh#t hot mate great thread
#356
View GaragePosted 03 February 2016 - 08:33 PM
If the brakes are not cooling down enough on the in lap after a race just make sure that you dont just park the car and let it heat soak. Id get the car off the ground as quick as possible and keep rotating the wheels to ensure that you arn't gettinga hot spot, which will warp a disc quicker than use on the track.
I dont think that the warping will be because of the use at the high temperatures. What pads are you using I assume that at that price they are Hawks.? I used a set of TRW/ Lucas pads on original rotors and calipers. They were the cheapest set of pads that I have ever used and worked really well. They did wear quite fast but needed no real bedding in at all and for their cost a better option than the more expensive Carbon Kevlar things. They didnt seem to score the discs either which was an advantage.
They are really cheap and the friction Co efficient stacks up quite well against pads that are a lot more expensive. I will see if I can locate the info sheet that was done by PIARC a number of years ago but it was really good and gave a lot of information.
#357
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Posted 03 February 2016 - 11:31 PM
Have you measured run-out?
You might find the 'warping' is actually uneven wear of the pad/rotor surface due to poor run-out in the bearing or the mounting face.
Pretty common in commodores where the rust scale build-up behind the rotors means they don't seat 100% and you get uneven wear and brake pulse that most people then blame on warping
You might find the 'warping' is actually uneven wear of the pad/rotor surface due to poor run-out in the bearing or the mounting face.
Pretty common in commodores where the rust scale build-up behind the rotors means they don't seat 100% and you get uneven wear and brake pulse that most people then blame on warping
#358
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Posted 04 February 2016 - 09:19 AM
Grant.. PM sent
#359
Posted 04 February 2016 - 11:40 AM
The Lucas/TRW brake pads are GDB576 and are on ebay for about $70. Maybe get a set and give them a try.
#360
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Posted 04 February 2016 - 06:49 PM
Ok - thanks for the info ,
there's something weird going down.
I got the disc machined on the hubs and there are some inner rings ( not egg rings but similar very fine and you need to put these in ) to center the rotor on the hub.
Now - the discs have just been machined off the brake place.
I have taken off all the paint off the back of the stub axles where is painted it - when the suspension was out.
I have put the locating rings back in - tightened up to about 35plbs per bolt
cleaned both mating surfaces
Re assembled and it still has some slight run out when all assembled against the caliper - WTF
this has been a big head F0ck i cannot work it out what's happening here and why the issue is happening.
the only thing i can think is the poundage on the rotor Vs hub and there is some paint in there just offsetting the disc off the hub ? - not much but it's happening and causing the run out ?
it's sort of a tally ho paper - I have tightened up the wheel nut and forced the bearings home, then i have backed off .
there is two issues;
1) run out on the dics - it's just and i mean just skimming the caliper in a certain point of the rotor rotation
2) bearing cup seating in the hub - but these were pressed home at the brake place - i don't think this is the issue
G - head #@$^%& again
dave got ur pm thanks will call
Edited by Agent 34, 04 February 2016 - 07:02 PM.
#361
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Posted 04 February 2016 - 06:55 PM
Grant - did you see this , from Orange LJ (above)..??
Have you measured run-out?
You might find the 'warping' is actually uneven wear of the pad/rotor surface due to poor run-out in the bearing or the mounting face.
Pretty common in commodores where the rust scale build-up behind the rotors means they don't seat 100% and you get uneven wear and brake pulse that most people then blame on warping
#362
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Posted 04 February 2016 - 08:00 PM
yeah but the bearing cones are in the hubs when they machine the discs which are on the hubs, so the disc machining is done on the hubs with any issues accounted for in the rotating assembly - eg bearing or cone mis alignment
Old keith skimmed the hubs on the lathe as well prior to the first fitting
so i sort of should be back to square one.
Im pretty sure that there is something not correct on the rotor / hub mating but it is only on a 1/5 of the disc - there are 5 bolts that hold the rotor on the hub - the rest is fine
mmm - the run out is a lot better than what it was, I really need to have a shake down at FOSC for the day and then check. pull down.
It's sort of like the bearing cones are not fully bedded down in the hub and are a little off full true 90 degree - i have tightened down the hubs tonight and will release in the morning and see if there is a better seating or/ less run out .
#363
Posted 04 February 2016 - 08:41 PM
Have you a set of stub axle stiffeners fitted to the front end. These are a set of cones that fit over the taper of the stub axle. They are machined so that the hubnut tightens up the inner part of the bearing. It is not a case of tigheting up till the wheel won't turn and then back offf a bit.
It's sets up so that the nut is just tightened up and the load is taken on the inner part of the bearing race on both the inner and outer bearing. So that really all the bearing itself is doing is rolling along. This eliminates any runout at all.
The "egg ring" things are because the centre hole of the BM rotor is about 2mm diameter bigger than the O/D of the Holden hub.
It maybe that you need to take the hubs off and unbolt them and then check for some crap between the mating surfaces and then put the "egg rings" in and retension.
I used some 1mm sheet steel that I cut into a strip, rolled it roughly to the circle required and then put the hub through the centrehole of the rotor. Before bolting them up and using a long parralel punch worked the sheet steel down into the gap. Then put the bolts through and tightened them up.
It is quite amazing that the PCD of the mounting bolts for the BM Rotor are exactly the same as the Holden Hub.
The only diffeerence betweeen the two systems is that the Holden rotor bolts through from the front of the hub into the rotor where the BM bolts through the rotor from the back into the hub.
So there is a bit of BMW in a Holden!!
If you are going to the shakedown day I'd get a set of the TRW brake pads and try them as its better that wrecking an expensive set!
Edited by piquet, 04 February 2016 - 08:43 PM.
#364
Posted 04 February 2016 - 09:06 PM
Do you have a set of stub axle stiffeners.?
These are a set of cones that are slipped over the stub axle and set up so that the wheel bearing nut is tightened up against them. It means that you dont just tighten the bearing up till it wont rotate and then back it off.
They are set up so that the stiffeners takes out any load from the roller part of the bearing and puts all the load on the inner part of the race on the inner and outer bearing.
It may be that you have to undo the bolts of the rotor to the hub check for any crap in the mating faces and retighten.
Tthe "egg ring" things are because the centre hole of the BM rotor is 2mm bigger than the O/D of the Torana hub.
What I did was to get some 1 mm sheet steel cut out a strip and roughly roll it to the right dianeter. Then I slipped the rotor over the hub and using a parralel pin punch knocked the strip into the gap between the rotor and the hub. Then I pushed the bolts through. I used Unbrako cap screws and then tightened it all up.
What is funny is that the PCD for the mounting holes of the BM rotor exactly match the PCD of the Holden hub. Go figure
The only difference is that the BM bolts through the rotor from the back into the hub whereas with the holden it bolts through from the front of the hub into the rotor.
For the shakedown day I'd think about getting a set of the TRW/Lucas pads just for the day and see how it all goes. Better than wrecking an expensive set.
Bugger double posting. I thought that I had lost the first posting which is why I did the second.
Sorry about that.
At least you should know what i mean when you read both posts!!
#365
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Posted 05 February 2016 - 05:51 PM
i dunno,just wondering if the disc runout might be caused by heat,even though they have been trued on stub it still generates heat,and looking at those discs there is a big "solid" area between wheel flange and vented area of disc.
just pondering and thinking what the lh etc discs looked like and the stockers had some air space in that hub area,dunno what the rules allow and probably best not suggest too much other than get rid of some cast iron or steel in certain areas ? just thinkin,might be wrong though
Edited by EunUCh, 05 February 2016 - 05:52 PM.
#366
_Agent 34_
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Posted 05 February 2016 - 07:31 PM
there just a low quality disc ( RDA) and DBA do not make another disc which can be substituted BUT as peter said they work and line up with the holes of the holden pattern.- see GTR - German thong Racing
DATS right they just cop a pounding and the pad's out run the disc in performance.
I really think that the issue with " race day warping is the cool down period " the car gets. everyone i spoke to has experienced this issue so it's not new
I have released the hubs today and whilst i don't have a run out gauge i can sort of measure off the caliper - AT worst in the spot is may be ( a head gasket is 40 thou) 5-8 thou based on the caliper being in one spot.
I might get the feeler gauges out tomorrow and measure this. but it's futile as i will just go a run the car and bed all the items down then re evaluate after the session
got the carbies and radiator in the car today and tighened up the linkages and set.
got some fluid in the brakes lines to the calipers and primed the new master cylinder
some zip tying, fuel lines, vacuume lines etc
tomorrow wire up the dizzy, fit the manual temp gauge
probably bleed the brakes
fit tail shaft
go over car and fittings
prime with oil
I'm waiting on my shifter being modified to a 1:1 throw on the linkages - keith croft has been sick but he said that he can do so i think that we should be close - i have another shifter to throw in if it dosent happen by this week.
Also getting a new shifter stick to lay back the operation and make the gear knob higher and closer to the steering wheel - small but while im at it i mose well do.
one more mill.
#367
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Posted 05 February 2016 - 08:07 PM
The pcd is ok then,can imagine they cop a hammering under those conditions,cool down laps to keep a bit of ''even air flow' after the hammering "might" be
more effective than stopping and and rotating wheels at a stand still to try and get rid of heat out of the things,other than that i read somewhere around here that
commos suffered a similar runout problem from time to time under heavy pedal,do the como have a solid "hub center" on the disc?.
Big drill holes somewhere?..rules allowing of course,might need a touch up after a bit of relaxing?..dunno,hope you get it sorted.
#368
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Posted 05 February 2016 - 08:25 PM
Pretty sure I only payed like $50 for my dial guage and magnetic base.
Pretty handy tool for the money.....
#369
Posted 05 February 2016 - 08:37 PM
If the run out is really minor and the low point is in one point of the wheel only there is always the option of undoing the other 4 bolts and shimming them to suit the low point on the run out. We are probably talking of a few thou. There is available brass or stainless shim that would be ideal. Just a matter of working out he required shim. Backing off the bolts as required slipping a strip of the shim into the gap next to the bolt and then retightening. They are not likely to come out if the hub to rotor bolts are done up tight enough. Of course allow for the crush of brass shim
So say if 5 thou is the measured run out then put in a 6-7thou shim. We arn't talking about much.
The genuine BM rotor is probably just alittle bit better than the RDA. but the price difference is prohibitive.
#370
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Posted 05 February 2016 - 09:58 PM
The problem is in the body work. The guard flutes don't work. We were cheated.
Edited by rodomo, 05 February 2016 - 09:59 PM.
#371
_Agent 34_
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Posted 07 February 2016 - 06:45 PM
The problem is in the body work. The guard flutes don't work. We were cheated.
mmm rob the flutes on my car are round the wrong way - not sure if there is a pic somewhere but if you look closely you will see that the indent is first as apposed to the indent after the cut.
we have contact and only need my shifter back and I can move the car.
only one more mill now.
G
see post 304 - we just thought the bloke was spastic.
I have tightened up the brake rotors and got most of it out but am going to get the guy to come round and machine on the car next week.
I know i have a problem so it's no good going to the track with it like this.
I think what has happened is the following'
I put the new discs in the BBQ not the oven and this warped them
then put then on the car hubs without the egg rings spacers
found that they ran out and didn't try to fix via tightening the bolts
then got them macnined and i think they were true on the hub in place and out of run out with the hub
then took then apart and re assembled
then because they were pulled down and re assembled the disc did not seat correct and hence re introduced the run out as apposed to the hub
I think that there was multiple errors in this and i have learnt the hard way
Ive ordered a new set of rotors as spares
Edited by Agent 34, 07 February 2016 - 06:53 PM.
#372
Posted 07 February 2016 - 06:54 PM
They are all the same. Cut at the front and the the back part is squashed in.
#373
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Posted 07 February 2016 - 07:15 PM
yeah pete, i just think that when i put them in the BBQ they didn't heat correctly like an oven based on the open grill and the solid plate.
it all went down hill from there
they didn't taste that good either even with BBQ sauce after cooking !
one is pretty good the other is noticeable - small skim on one a larger cut on the other.
#374
Posted 07 February 2016 - 09:13 PM
Maybe I'm missing something. Why did you put them on the BBQ?
If you did that it could be your problem.
I think that you are going down the right thinking to get them machined on the car it may just fix the problem. But if they continue to warp I'd be throwing them away and starting again
The thing that is being done by a lot of the Mustang drivers is to have them Cryogenically treated. thae rotors are almost frozen. It seems to stop them cracking and gives them much longer life before they get tossed out.
#375
Posted 07 February 2016 - 09:30 PM
Have a look at www.cryocyle.com.au
These guys do a lot of brakes down here in Melbourne. I am sure that there will be someone in Sydney that does that sort of thing. I'm fairly sure Rob Baker runs the place here in Melbourne. Give him a call and he will know of someone in Sydney.
I have known Rob since early in my teens and that was a while ago now.
Edited by piquet, 07 February 2016 - 09:31 PM.
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