Jump to content


- - - - -

186 Engine Rebuild

Started by _duggan208_ , Feb 18 2015 12:34 AM

  • Please log in to reply
136 replies to this topic

#76 SA EH

SA EH

    Another Holden 6 tragic

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,050 posts
  • Name:Jonesy
  • Location:SA
  • Car:EH Holden, E30 BMW, LJ 4 Door
  • Joined: 14-October 13

Posted 25 January 2017 - 08:46 PM

They look like late model Toyota hiace filters, do they get ducted cold air to them or am I getting ahead of myself?

#77 _duggan208_

_duggan208_
  • Guests

Posted 25 January 2017 - 11:15 PM

Not a bad guess, Celica ST 204 filters, I have a couple of used ones from my Celica glad I didn't peg them out. There is a hole beside the light, so plenty of nice clean cold air. Trying the spread the air evenly as possible and not just a heavy concentration of air in one part of the box. For that reason I have avoided putting the filter at the front of the box. I might add a scoop on the bonnet later on.

regards 


#78 _duggan208_

_duggan208_
  • Guests

Posted 09 April 2017 - 11:18 PM

One almost sorted out serpentine belt, i'm gonna do something with those headers. The air box that's drawing out plenty of the Queens english and stretching the patience.

Regards

 

Attached Files


#79 _duggan208_

_duggan208_
  • Guests

Posted 12 July 2017 - 12:06 AM

I've just finished my 6 into 1 merge vanes, a fair bit of mucking around. Just need to finish the collector now and then start on the pipes. No more sort of fitting HM pipes and sloppy matched flanges.

Attached Files


#80 Heath

Heath

    I like cars.

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,314 posts
  • Name:Heath
  • Location:Eastern Suburbs, Melbourne
  • Car:Heavily Modified UC Sunbird Hatchback
  • Joined: 07-November 05
Garage View Garage

Posted 12 July 2017 - 08:05 AM

Woah! Will watch this with interest.

#81 jd lj

jd lj

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,100 posts
  • Name:James D
  • Location:in the shed
  • Car:LJ SVO
  • Joined: 03-December 10

Posted 12 July 2017 - 03:50 PM

Nice work on the air box, it looks like yours is a quite complex set up. In comparison to my triple dcoe air box ours are such different end results.

You had to modify your inner guard for clearance didn't you?

Can you show us the hole you made in the radiator support panel for cold air inlet?

James

#82 _Bomber Watson_

_Bomber Watson_
  • Guests

Posted 12 July 2017 - 08:57 PM

I've just finished my 6 into 1 merge vanes, a fair bit of mucking around. Just need to finish the collector now and then start on the pipes. No more sort of fitting HM pipes and sloppy matched flanges.


Yeah these picks aroused me somewhat. 

How are you intending to weld the pipes to the collectors?


#83 _duggan208_

_duggan208_
  • Guests

Posted 13 July 2017 - 12:31 AM

Yes i had to cut about 2 inches out of the inner guard to lower it down. Not a lot of room for the wheel under braking. There are some pics earlier in my thread. I'll put up a pic of the hole. I'm trying to even out the incoming air so that the air does not all rush to the back of the box, no hole in the very front of the box, so that each ram tube breaths the same amount of air and to lessen the effects of intake pulses by using those type of air filters. Goodness knows if it all will work. As for the collector I'm going to try a press fit. The header pipes will slide into the collector held together by springs, like a two stroke expansion chamber, or some kind of bolt set up and a smear of muffler putty. I welded the collector body on today. Regards

#84 _duggan208_

_duggan208_
  • Guests

Posted 13 July 2017 - 11:52 PM

This is a pic of the hole in the support panel, needs a bit more finishing work and the finished 6 into 1 merge collector yet to be painted. 

Attached Files


#85 SA EH

SA EH

    Another Holden 6 tragic

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,050 posts
  • Name:Jonesy
  • Location:SA
  • Car:EH Holden, E30 BMW, LJ 4 Door
  • Joined: 14-October 13

Posted 18 July 2017 - 10:37 PM

Bloody hell! How big are each one of those pipes? Good job though, hope there's room under the car to fit it.

#86 _duggan208_

_duggan208_
  • Guests

Posted 19 July 2017 - 12:32 AM

1 and 5/8, I suppose when there is 6 of the bloody things they look huge. I also have one of those small starters gives me a little more room. Gonna try to make up a bracket to hold the collector in place, tighter than a fishers A/hole, but I think I can just make it all fit. Will certainly need a heat reduction design.

regards


#87 SA EH

SA EH

    Another Holden 6 tragic

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,050 posts
  • Name:Jonesy
  • Location:SA
  • Car:EH Holden, E30 BMW, LJ 4 Door
  • Joined: 14-October 13

Posted 19 July 2017 - 09:14 PM

Yeah they sure look a good size from here mate, probably easier than squeezing 6 pipes past the bellhousing though. What size is the pipe from the collector? Assuming it'll be the size of the complete exhaust system. Sorry if I'm repeating questions that you've already answered....

#88 _duggan208_

_duggan208_
  • Guests

Posted 20 July 2017 - 12:14 AM

The collector goes down to 2.5 inch and them up to 3 inch. I don't really know if that will make any gains but worth a try.

Regards.


#89 Shtstr

Shtstr

    Formerly lcxu105

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,809 posts
  • Name:Mmmmmmm
  • Location:Brisbane
  • Car:lx hatchback lc gtr
  • Joined: 18-June 10

Posted 21 July 2017 - 08:47 PM

So basically you are stroking a 186 with 3.3 black motor crank. Why not just use a 3.3 block and mod the water holes in the head.
Are you after a torque monster or a quick hi revving 6.

#90 Shtstr

Shtstr

    Formerly lcxu105

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,809 posts
  • Name:Mmmmmmm
  • Location:Brisbane
  • Car:lx hatchback lc gtr
  • Joined: 18-June 10

Posted 25 July 2017 - 07:26 PM

If you want a quick high reving 6 you are on the right parth by lightning the far extremely of the counter weights. But there is an easier way to lighten the rotating mass .
Holden used the same size stroke and jurnal size in all engines except the 202/3.3.
Holdens 138 red motor crank fits a 186 perfectly and is far lighter. Fitted with the right rods pistons and flywheel you will be extremely surprised at how quick it revs.

#91 I'm a Red Motor fiend

I'm a Red Motor fiend

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 758 posts
  • Name:Adam
  • Location:Nairne SA
  • Car:LJ 4 door, LC GTR
  • Joined: 04-January 16
Garage View Garage

Posted 26 July 2017 - 05:47 AM

I for one would be keen to know how much a quick revving 138 crank weighs compared to its identical 3" stroke counterparts?

#92 S pack

S pack

    Scrivet Counter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,541 posts
  • Name:Dave
  • Location:Luggage Point
  • Car:73 LJ
  • Joined: 25-January 10

Posted 26 July 2017 - 07:46 AM

I for one would be keen to know how much a quick revving 138 crank weighs compared to its identical 3" stroke counterparts?

+1 lol


#93 Shtstr

Shtstr

    Formerly lcxu105

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,809 posts
  • Name:Mmmmmmm
  • Location:Brisbane
  • Car:lx hatchback lc gtr
  • Joined: 18-June 10

Posted 26 July 2017 - 11:17 AM

From memory it was quite a bit 1.5kgs + less in weight. Also when you rolled the 186 crank along flat ground it would go up and dowm in between counter weights and the 138 crank was more even. It's like anything the further out the mass from point of lift the more effort it takes to move. Same goes for tyres. The bigger they are in height the more power it takes to turn them. Yes you can change gear ratio to compensate but its a trade off game all round.

#94 Shtstr

Shtstr

    Formerly lcxu105

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,809 posts
  • Name:Mmmmmmm
  • Location:Brisbane
  • Car:lx hatchback lc gtr
  • Joined: 18-June 10

Posted 26 July 2017 - 11:20 AM

What you have to watch is when changing gears as revs will drop quickly. With a light rotating mass.

#95 Ice

Ice

    Cool

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,123 posts
  • Name:Gene
  • Location:Galaxy's away from Ipswich
  • Car:77 HZ Sandman Van
  • Joined: 03-January 07

Posted 26 July 2017 - 12:56 PM

From memory it was quite a bit 1.5kgs + less in weight. Also when you rolled the 186 crank along flat ground it would go up and dowm in between counter weights and the 138 crank was more even. It's like anything the further out the mass from point of lift the more effort it takes to move. Same goes for tyres. The bigger they are in height the more power it takes to turn them. Yes you can change gear ratio to compensate but its a trade off game all round.

You will find the cranks are the same not lighter where you getting this info from

#96 S pack

S pack

    Scrivet Counter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,541 posts
  • Name:Dave
  • Location:Luggage Point
  • Car:73 LJ
  • Joined: 25-January 10

Posted 26 July 2017 - 01:16 PM

You may be comparing a cast crank to a forged crank. Both forged and cast cranks were used in 161 and 186 engines. The cast crank superseded the forged crank in all Holden red 6 in 1967 except for 186s + 3100x and CK engines in LC Torana.


Edited by S pack, 26 July 2017 - 01:17 PM.

#97 madtoranajzedded

madtoranajzedded

    Sir ask alot

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,891 posts
  • Name:Maz
  • Location:Southern Tasmania
  • Car:72 LJ SL SEDAN.
  • Joined: 30-September 13

Posted 26 July 2017 - 02:15 PM

My 138 big block gives me whiplash

#98 Shtstr

Shtstr

    Formerly lcxu105

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,809 posts
  • Name:Mmmmmmm
  • Location:Brisbane
  • Car:lx hatchback lc gtr
  • Joined: 18-June 10

Posted 26 July 2017 - 07:48 PM

Many years ago i built a 186 for a street car for myself. I had a 138 out of the lc i had at the time and started comparing the 2 cranks side by side and checking stroke and journal sizes. The most significant difference between them was counter weight sizes and overall weight. So i went with the 138 crank to try something different. We made a new steel flywheel from 1040 grade steel and it ended up at 4.5kgs. So the weight eas as close as possible to the center of the rotating mass. Thats where i got my info from. Real life experience.

You will find the cranks are the same not lighter where you getting this info from


Edited by Shtstr, 26 July 2017 - 07:51 PM.

#99 Shtstr

Shtstr

    Formerly lcxu105

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,809 posts
  • Name:Mmmmmmm
  • Location:Brisbane
  • Car:lx hatchback lc gtr
  • Joined: 18-June 10

Posted 26 July 2017 - 08:17 PM

Either way believe me or not. Just passing on knowledge that i learned over 20 yers ago and come from a racing background with holden red motors and our family held many titles for many years when we where in the game. Long since left the racing game.

#100 _Bomber Watson_

_Bomber Watson_
  • Guests

Posted 26 July 2017 - 08:46 PM

I'd prefer more rotating mass and more strength any day of the week personally. 

The race is won or lost in the 60', and the more rotating mass you have the harder you can hit the tyres in the holeshot....gonna win everytime. 

The strength is just a handy side effect. 


Edited by Bomber Watson, 26 July 2017 - 08:46 PM.

Back to Members Projects & Plans


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

  1. GMH-Torana
  2. → Members Area
  3. → Members Projects & Plans
  4. Privacy Policy
  5. The Rules! ·