226 replies to this topic

[yel327]

Yes, as did Bedfords. 173 was the standard engine in most 6cyl HQ models (Statesman and LS from memory were standard with 202, maybe later Premier as well). Also standard fitment to CF Bedford around this time as a low comp 173. A little earlier (in 1971) the 173 was also standard in 6cyl HG commercials until HQ commercials were released late in 1971.

Edited by yel327, 30 March 2016 - 08:02 AM.

[Redzone]

Sorry it's Class C .....................................Roger Bonhomme won the class at phillip island late 1973

Did you want me to ring Roger and ask if he had a "special" 173 delivered to him in 73?

[crabba67]

Did you want me to ring Roger and ask if he had a "special" 173 delivered to him in 73?

Yes Dave and also ask roger what carburettor or carburettors he ran......

Cheers

 

Edited by crabba67, 30 March 2016 - 12:35 PM.

[yel327]

ok ,thanks, but not the 138 ?

 

Export LJ and LH got the 138. The 138 replaced the 130 as the export engine sometime near the end of HQ-ish. I think Malaysia or Thailand or both changed the capacity from maybe 2.2 to 2.3 or 2.5L where their rego made a quantum leap, this is why prior to that time the Asian export engines were 130ci but was able to change to the standard 138 (2.25L) later. Even in recent years they had 2.5L versions of the 3.0L D4D Hilux we got here, for the same reason.

 

The HJ documentation shows a 138 for export but I think it was never used, one page shows it as cancelled.
 

[S pack]

I'd like to see the CAMS production certificate showing that GM-H produced 500 basically identical LC GTR's in 1973 to allow the LC GTR to race under Group C rules.

[yel327]

Would it be an evolution of type? So you'd count the 2600S versions too? Did the LC GTR 2850S have an ausdie 4spd though?

[RallyRed]

 Did the LC GTR 2850S have an ausdie 4spd though?

I believe most, but not all?

[yel327]

Great spelling of mine in that last post. I've never taken a huge interest in them before. One did go through the wreckers near me in the mid 80's, I remember it being well into HQ production and seeing the 2850S. Never bothered to look much harder though as it wasn't a Holden and not a V8. Should have paid it more attention.

[S pack]

Would it be an evolution of type? So you'd count the 2600S versions too? Did the LC GTR 2850S have an ausdie 4spd though?

Increasing the engine capacity and the installation of an alternative gearbox would require an amendment to the C.O.D and the manufacture of the minimum required number of cars.

[S pack]

Yes Dave and also ask roger what carburettor or carburettors he ran......

Cheers

Won't be a triple anything setup on a GTR.

Carburetors were free but inlet manifolds were not.

[crabba67]

George Wundele owned and raced from new a 4 month 1970 GTR in Platinum Met.in 1973 raced it with triple 150 carburettors and well into the mid 70's KOD551 LC10#23A original engine 2600s13#98.His mechanic was Tony Niovanni who raced the Peter Robinson Motor LJ XU1 have all docmentation and copy of log books. 

 

 

 

 

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Edited by crabba67, 30 March 2016 - 11:53 PM.

[S pack]

Ok, undeniable fact. He didn't have or need a special dual cast block to cope with the extra power output from the triple carbs and possibly a bigger cam though.

Edited by S pack, 31 March 2016 - 06:45 AM.

[yel327]

The carbs on early GroupC stuff is strange. Carbs were free if I remember correctly but you couldn't increase the number of throttles/venturi? This is why L34 could run a 780 Holley or 2 x Weber/Dellorto carbs, and why some XU1's ran 3 x Webers but with only one venturi on each actually working. If you ran say a 253 HQ you'd be stuck with a 2BBL carb for example. I wonder how a GroupC non-XU1 got away with running triples? I assume its is because the XU1 had them? Or was it one of those many concessions CAMS made?

 

Also just had a thought! GMH didn't cast those special F5000 blocks around 5/73 for F5000 or Ramsay. They did it so Ron Dickson could run one in his HQ GTS sedan at Bathurst 1973!

[S pack]

I beleive HDT raced a GTR with a 186 xu-1 engine in it early on, and a V8 powered Torana as well ....   I guess they were never gonne win the race's they were entered in...  So meeting scrutineering criteria may not have been as important as the R&D ???

Didn't the V8 LC (V8 XU1 prototype prototype) race as a Sports Sedan? 

Edited by S pack, 31 March 2016 - 07:33 AM.

[S pack]

The carbs on early GroupC stuff is strange. Carbs were free if I remember correctly but you couldn't increase the number of throttles/venturi? This is why L34 could run a 780 Holley or 2 x Weber/Dellorto carbs, and why some XU1's ran 3 x Webers but with only one venturi on each actually working. If you ran say a 253 HQ you'd be stuck with a 2BBL carb for example. I wonder how a GroupC non-XU1 got away with running triples? I assume its is because the XU1 had them? Or was it one of those many concessions CAMS made?

 

Also just had a thought! GMH didn't cast those special F5000 blocks around 5/73 for F5000 or Ramsay. They did it so Ron Dickson could run one in his HQ GTS sedan at Bathurst 1973!

Dick Johnson upgraded his LC GTR to XU1 spec so it must have been permitted to upgrade some parts without going the whole hog.

Although you would expect that to run the triple 150 CD's they would have to be attached to an XU1 186 not a GTR 161.

[crabba67]

Around 600 LC GTR CF173 built Adelaide and Brisbane..........MY LC GTR CF second owner from the factory with XH cam,nibbles rims LSD 3.08 and opel 4 speed sold through Neil Nelson Holden Ferntree Gully. i would say dealer fitted A/C but the windscreen did have a shade of green to it.

Cheers

 

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[yel327]

The glass should have said ANTISUN on it if aircon glass, and on all glass in the car - will check if this applied during early HQ though.

 

So your 2850S definitely had an XH cam in it? I've seen that in the LC parts catalogue and wondered why it'd be there, seems like an awful big cam for a little engine with significantly less compression (compared to 186 and 202 XU1) and single 2BBL carb. Are you sure it wasn't hidden in the parts catalogue like some other HDT stuff was so the cam could be used in Series Production GTR? This is how Harry hid the 3927186 heads for GTS350 so it all appeared above board. Just seems an awful big cam, for only an extra 5hp which you'd think you'd get anyway from the extra 12ci and 0.2:1 compression between a 2600S and a 2850S.

[crabba67]

Dick Johnson upgraded his LC GTR to XU1 spec so it must have been permitted to upgrade some parts without going the whole hog.

Although you would expect that to run the triple 150 CD's they would have to be attached to an XU1 186 not a GTR 161.

Dave,George is still alive and well and still lives in Montrose Vic,the photo's of the lc gtr was like that the day Lloyd B the mechanic from Warwick QLD for the Bowden collection picked the car up.All paper work is down as a 2600 capacity.

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[u1 71]

Hi Anthony,is your gtr baroda silver

[crabba67]

Yes Peter,it was built amongst the CK's at Adelaide not many built while the CK were being built.

Cheers

Edited by crabba67, 31 March 2016 - 02:58 PM.

[WhiteA9XS]

 S pack is correct . there were quite a few Gtr,s running and upgraded to Xu1 specs , cheaper to buy , too name a few , bob morris ,  dick johnson and don hollands 73 was built from a bare gtr shell, etc ,They were purchased from holden as a roller much the same as an a9x gmpa shell . then built to specs/rules., although there were also original Xu1 race cars purchased complete and then modified .

 

i can,t see holden building special 173 blocks for just a small handfull of under 3 litre class toranas in 1973 . possibly just another added date code to engine casting mould for easier identification , who knows !