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Dual Cast JP 202 Motors ......


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#51 S pack

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 07:52 PM

Some profoundly wise words from Mike 73. Possibly one of the few things he has said that is on the money.

 

Quote "With the engine blocks no JP stamped block had any differences to a HQ Holden though quite a few had a X marking on the inside the crankcase area, but some also had a = marking, these markings were also shared by the HQ 202 and GTR.
There is one exception to this with the very last 166 Bathurst XU-1's, while the block was still the same extra machining was required to clear the large inlet valves".


Edited by S pack, 05 March 2016 - 07:53 PM.


#52 Bazza

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 07:58 PM

Hi

 

 

I cut and saved this statement many years ago. I believe was from this forum, but I can't find the original thread. I don't know if it has any particular value or credibility but here it is anyway.

 

 

Note  All JP and NP engines should have a 3 cast into the block near the left hand engine mount except dual cast late ’73 JP blocks.

 

Dual cast blocks appear to be 20F3 and 10H3 castings.

 

Cheers

 

Bazza

 

 



#53 UCgazman

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 08:02 PM

Maybe a guy making the sand casting moulds gets his ass kicked by the foreman if the casting dates are hard to read, so every now and then when he doesn't like how they turn out he presses an extra one on the other side... :dontknow:



#54 S pack

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 08:07 PM

GMH cast 200 Dual Cast 202 blocks for one months production, but only required 80.

 

What happens to the other 120 Dual Cast 202 blocks ?

Oh yeah, sorry I forgot, you were working at the GM-H Foundry when these blocks were made.



#55 xu2308

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 08:08 PM

You think it be as simple as that, but Harry never let on that he used the Graphite metal on things back in the day, so maybe the dual date for them JP's is it or not.



#56 crabba67

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 08:21 PM

Garth,traditionally the normal method was unrelible a daub of paint and eyelet card (block code) between the block and sump next to the fuel pump........ Best thing to do is second date code.
Cheers

#57 dattoman

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 09:07 PM

Maybe a guy making the sand casting moulds gets his ass kicked by the foreman if the casting dates are hard to read, so every now and then when he doesn't like how they turn out he presses an extra one on the other side... :dontknow:

 

Thats Bills job



#58 yel327

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 09:11 PM

Well my thinking is for these said Engine on that 150 Engine List, as a lot went into Cop Cars so the Stories go and Coppers didn't drive them like Miss Daisy, my thinking is to make them stronger, I might be way off but just thinking it.

 

Or a convenient way to dispose quietly of extra special blocks? Guess what though, some of the few original 150 list engines that I personally know of that only have a single date code came from Police cars. Just a theory but you never know. 
 


Edited by yel327, 05 March 2016 - 09:15 PM.


#59 UCgazman

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Posted 06 March 2016 - 12:26 AM

Dammit Bill!



#60 _ChaosWeaver_

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Posted 06 March 2016 - 06:39 AM

Hmmm,  I guess I'll take Anthony at his word, and believe that those photos are from either sides of the same motors..   

So if JP Dual Date Cast motors exist....    what is the significance of the second cast marking, considering non Torana's have them, as well as being on 173 motors..

 

My thinking is that it's only importance would be for internal Company Monitoring ..  (QA)  

 

Everything I have ever read on Motor Identification, seems to nominate the stamped motor numbers as their identifier ......  not just on Torana's or even Holdens, but pretty much everything..   

 

What Identifies every other HP Motor in Holdens cars ???   correct me if i'm wrong......   but its the stamped number on the motor ..     :)



#61 RallyRed

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Posted 06 March 2016 - 07:01 AM

Interesting.......but somebody, somewhere must know.

 

If guys like Joe Felice are still happily running around with excellent recall of the details of what they personally did back in the day at GMH......then surely there is the ""Foundry guy"" somewhere too?

 

Must be a few, i.e. manager, supervisors, leading hands,QA people, different shift crews of blokes?

 

Surely at least one of them knows?....

 

There is that facebook page for retired Holden employees.....might as well ask on there?



#62 _rich243_

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Posted 06 March 2016 - 07:03 AM

Gee how different is the pad thickness on these 2. I wonder which ones original

 

Attached File  jp386656 1.jpg   58.52K   13 downloads

 

Attached File  jp3744.jpg   288.37K   10 downloads

 

 



#63 S pack

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Posted 06 March 2016 - 08:10 AM

Interesting.......but somebody, somewhere must know.

 

If guys like Joe Felice are still happily running around with excellent recall of the details of what they personally did back in the day at GMH......then surely there is the ""Foundry guy"" somewhere too?

 

Must be a few, i.e. manager, supervisors, leading hands,QA people, different shift crews of blokes?

 

Surely at least one of them knows?....

 

There is that facebook page for retired Holden employees.....might as well ask on there?

You would think someone would know but as Bruce has told us in the past you just can't trust 40 year old memories.

 

Anthony and Bruce do put a lot of faith in this persons memory though.

Other than this letter no official GM-H documentation can be found to support these claims of exclusive dual cast date 150 engine number list XU1 202 blocks and/or all XU1 202 blocks were cast using core pattern #3.

Attached Files


Edited by S pack, 06 March 2016 - 08:11 AM.


#64 _SableMet7/73_

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Posted 06 March 2016 - 02:22 PM

Thats Bills job

you sure? thought it was Bob's..  :)

 

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#65 lj72bathurst

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Posted 06 March 2016 - 08:02 PM

Hi
 
 
I cut and saved this statement many years ago. I believe was from this forum, but I can't find the original thread. I don't know if it has any particular value or credibility but here it is anyway.
 
 
Note  All JP and NP engines should have a 3 cast into the block near the left hand engine mount except dual cast late ’73 JP blocks.
 
Dual cast blocks appear to be 20F3 and 10H3 castings.
 
Cheers
 
Bazza


Not all JP have casting number 3 on the side. One owner cars from factory

Cheers Jason

#66 S pack

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Posted 06 March 2016 - 08:09 PM

Not all JP have casting number 3 on the side. One owner cars from factory

Cheers Jason

Cheers Jason. Another person who knows the truth. :spoton:



#67 FLY_AGAIN_XU-1

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Posted 06 March 2016 - 11:12 PM

Just curious :

What number is on yours Jason ?

What number is on yours Dave ?



#68 lj72bathurst

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 12:01 AM

Just curious :
What number is on yours Jason ?
What number is on yours Dave ?

i

I no longer have my xu1 sold a few years ago. Mine had a 3
Number. Have a mate with a one owner car which has 2 casting.
I will ask him if i can take photos to post.

Jason

#69 FLY_AGAIN_XU-1

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 05:37 AM

Some photos would be great, thanks Jason.



#70 _ChaosWeaver_

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 06:10 AM

Some photos would be great, thanks Jason.

Like wise Bruce.......  Some photo's of yours, and Anthony's would be great.......  



#71 FLY_AGAIN_XU-1

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 06:38 AM

Like wise Ian....... Some photo's of yours would be great............



#72 _ChaosWeaver_

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 06:52 AM

Mines only a scabby 72 JP .......  :)

 

Skap has photos of mine..  and right after we see photos of yours and Anthony's,  I'll be happy for Adam to show it ....  K  



#73 _Skapinad_

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 06:56 AM

don't hold your breath Ian....



#74 _ChaosWeaver_

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 07:25 AM

Yeah I think you right....

 

Not sure if we have the equivalent service in Australia..   But with the amount of valuable and collectable cars here, one day we will....  and as these cars change hands a trail is left, but one day they will be tested,  to see if they are what they have been sold as....   Fake cars and engines are around, in all makes Holden, Fords, Vals.. you name it.... and one by one they will be found, especially the "Special Ones" and the investigation's will trace the car back to the crook's who built them ....  

 

Some must be having sleepless nights already, because if they have cheated someone in the past, and so far gotten away with it.    The proof is still out there in someone's shed, just waiting to be one day Investigated ....  

 

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#75 S pack

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 07:56 AM

Like wise Bruce.......  Some photo's of yours, and Anthony's would be great.......  

Ditto.






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