G'day all,
As some may remember, I posted a while back asking opinions on building a motor, buying a crate motor, or buying someone else's motor for my torana.
I would firstly like to say thanks to all those people who offered opinions, and all of you who helped me via email and PM regarding thier motors for sale etc. Unfortunately, I don't have the cash flow for those options at the moment, and I have gone with the idea of rebuilding the 308 that I have.
I stripped the 308 (Red) down the other day and had a blast doing it, to be honest! Some of you may think it's a tedius, lame, boring job etc... But for someone who has never done it before to that extent, it was good fun figuring out how it all slots together.
I would like to get a power figure of 200+ Horsepower for starters, which isnt too excessive over stock, but still a decent whack for a little Torana. My question is;
Do any of you guys have a combination of brands / specs for parts that fit together into a 308 to make it have that extra punch?
I have been told things like "A nice mild cam" etc.. in past, and really, I dont know what a "nice mild cam" consists of! Obviously, it's a cam shaft, but specs, brands etc.
I am considering an ACL Rebuild kit - Is this wise?
Replacement Heads a good idea? If so, what sort?
Torker Manifold the best for a high revving burnout motor?
Roller Rockers to avoid valve-bounce?
I was reading in Aus Muscle i think it was the other week, a 308 Build up, which gave me a good starting point for ideas, but not really a lot of info.
I know it's a bit of an ask considering I still dont know many of you past your usernames yet, but any help would be great.
Thanks
RpM
Matt
Engine Combination 308
Started by
_RpM_
, Aug 07 2006 08:14 PM
19 replies to this topic
#2
TerrA LX
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Posted 07 August 2006 - 09:39 PM
as ive always said, you have a foundation, now speak with a cam grinder and follow his reccomendations to the letter, a good cam grinder will advise on compression ratio, carb cfm head size and spring type as well as gearbox and final ratio that will work together. you will then know what combinations such as head, carb etc you will need.
i think 300hp at the motor would be more your target with a head type such as L34/ group C spec.
Yella terra do an exchange which is close to the mark out of the box.
as for most the rest of parts if not holden then budget for well known brand names such as ACL etc etc.
i think 300hp at the motor would be more your target with a head type such as L34/ group C spec.
Yella terra do an exchange which is close to the mark out of the box.
as for most the rest of parts if not holden then budget for well known brand names such as ACL etc etc.
Edited by ALX76, 07 August 2006 - 09:41 PM.
#3
_1QUICK LJ_
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Posted 07 August 2006 - 10:20 PM
i would do it something like this:
ACL race kit
around 9.8 comp
crane cch 276 or crow 5651
ported std valve heads
performer manifold
600-650 cfm carb
msd or crane ignition
1 5/8 headers
get rotating assembly balanced
that will crack 270-300hp @flywheel no probs and can be driven every day would pull high 13s in good setup torana.
ACL race kit
around 9.8 comp
crane cch 276 or crow 5651
ported std valve heads
performer manifold
600-650 cfm carb
msd or crane ignition
1 5/8 headers
get rotating assembly balanced
that will crack 270-300hp @flywheel no probs and can be driven every day would pull high 13s in good setup torana.
#4
_Jewboy_
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Posted 07 August 2006 - 10:32 PM
I'm running a crane H226 cam which is a touch bigger than the cch 276 and dyno runs have been just over 200hp (204 & 220hp) at the wheels. You should have the spring seats in the head machined to accept taller springs if you go this way, probably get away without if you go the 276. Cam is nice on the street when the rest of your drive line suits (my case 2.5k hi stall and 3.5:1 diff)
#5
_RpM_
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Posted 07 August 2006 - 10:36 PM
Thanks for the info / advuce guys... It's all helping me get my motor-lingo sorted out!!
1QUICKLJ - That sounds like a good set up. I will do some research on all those bits and see how i go. Hopefully I can get this going! hehe.
Jewboy - Thanks for that too! I was just speaking about the Cam to a mate, and he suggested maybe something a bit bigger for the simple fact that it's not going to be street rego'd. Purely a show car.
Thanks again guys.
1QUICKLJ - That sounds like a good set up. I will do some research on all those bits and see how i go. Hopefully I can get this going! hehe.
Jewboy - Thanks for that too! I was just speaking about the Cam to a mate, and he suggested maybe something a bit bigger for the simple fact that it's not going to be street rego'd. Purely a show car.
Thanks again guys.
Edited by RpM, 07 August 2006 - 10:44 PM.
#6
gtrboyy
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Posted 07 August 2006 - 11:25 PM
If I was to do a burnout type engine I would start off with a 330 stroker for the extra torque,276 cam,performer manifold & a nice set of ported heads with pacemaker extractors.A basic torquey type engine that would still be nice to drive on the street.
#7
_JNR_ATE_
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Posted 08 August 2006 - 12:02 AM
I pretty much just went through the same door not long ago,
Firstly i reckon you need to decide if the torry is gunna be on ULP or gas, i started out building the engine saying to myself i wont mind paying $1.50 per litre for premium fuel, now that the engine is alive and driving me to work everyday its not the case, so im opting for straight gas and its getting fitted in september so i can give everyone the results on it then.
If ULP is your weapon of choice, Heads and Cam are at the top of my list. The air is gunna enter the engine regardless, but distributing it to each cylinder effectively for a good fuel/burn is gotta be a major part.
Like ALX76 said, speak to a cam grinder and Heads man and go from there, your compression will set what fuel is best to run and and hence your cam aswell,
ACL kit will be good, 9:8 compression, valve work and porting will come from advice from the person who does your heads. recommend getting stellite seats for the heads(Gas). Also would recommend some good quality rod bolts, dont wanna throw a leg outta bed.
performer manifold, good flowing extractors, if u dont have an elec dizzy, then probably get one, the standard bosch elec dizzy re-curvved to your cam will be fine for any hot street car.
The cam and heads will determine your stall and diff ratio, trans is your choice.
Pm me if you want some pics/specs
Cheers
JNR_ATE
Firstly i reckon you need to decide if the torry is gunna be on ULP or gas, i started out building the engine saying to myself i wont mind paying $1.50 per litre for premium fuel, now that the engine is alive and driving me to work everyday its not the case, so im opting for straight gas and its getting fitted in september so i can give everyone the results on it then.
If ULP is your weapon of choice, Heads and Cam are at the top of my list. The air is gunna enter the engine regardless, but distributing it to each cylinder effectively for a good fuel/burn is gotta be a major part.
Like ALX76 said, speak to a cam grinder and Heads man and go from there, your compression will set what fuel is best to run and and hence your cam aswell,
ACL kit will be good, 9:8 compression, valve work and porting will come from advice from the person who does your heads. recommend getting stellite seats for the heads(Gas). Also would recommend some good quality rod bolts, dont wanna throw a leg outta bed.
performer manifold, good flowing extractors, if u dont have an elec dizzy, then probably get one, the standard bosch elec dizzy re-curvved to your cam will be fine for any hot street car.
The cam and heads will determine your stall and diff ratio, trans is your choice.
Pm me if you want some pics/specs
Cheers
JNR_ATE
#8
_[BOTTLEDUP]_
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Posted 08 August 2006 - 12:22 AM
I'd second 1QUICKLJ's post, tho I'd lean towards a slightly larger cam for something that's not going to see the street. Either a Crane H226, H286 or a Crow 5620.
With an auto look at a 2600-2800 converter, and some 3.5 gears.
With an auto look at a 2600-2800 converter, and some 3.5 gears.
#9
Struggler
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Posted 08 August 2006 - 08:06 AM
If you are on a real tight budget reuse the standard pistons (if your bore will allow it), machine for zero deck height and get a real balancer. Get the heads recoed, fit the Crane 286 and LT1 springs. Don't worry about rollers or paying to get the heads ported. Use a standard manifold and Qjet (or Holley vac sec). Do buy a real convertor, closer to 3 or 3.5 with this cam. Don't build a street engine if you will never drive it on the street.
It is important to get someone that knows what they are talking about to check your short, so you can make the right decision about bore wear etc. As you have already pulled it apart it is a bit late to check deck heights, piston to bore clearances etc.
Remember, you don't know what you don't know.
It is important to get someone that knows what they are talking about to check your short, so you can make the right decision about bore wear etc. As you have already pulled it apart it is a bit late to check deck heights, piston to bore clearances etc.
Remember, you don't know what you don't know.
#10
_RpM_
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Posted 08 August 2006 - 01:39 PM
Thanks guys! Some great input that will come in handy when I get home to do some research later today.
JNR_ATE - I have sent you a PM asking for some specs and stuff, would be great thanks!!
BOTTLEDUP - Yeah i'd be using a large cam, as I said, it's not going to be a streeter and I want it to have that extra bit of punch!
Struggler - The budget isnt exactly huge, but i'm not on a fixed deadline (other than the fact that I want it done now!! haha) So I can take my time getting cash together. Im thinking a big convertor too as I think a fair amount of strain will be on the box. I have also sent you a PM.
Thanks again guys, really appreciate the help you guys can provide.
JNR_ATE - I have sent you a PM asking for some specs and stuff, would be great thanks!!
BOTTLEDUP - Yeah i'd be using a large cam, as I said, it's not going to be a streeter and I want it to have that extra bit of punch!
Struggler - The budget isnt exactly huge, but i'm not on a fixed deadline (other than the fact that I want it done now!! haha) So I can take my time getting cash together. Im thinking a big convertor too as I think a fair amount of strain will be on the box. I have also sent you a PM.
Thanks again guys, really appreciate the help you guys can provide.
#11
_1QUICK LJ_
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Posted 08 August 2006 - 09:02 PM
sorry i didnt see the non street car bit in your first post so yes in that case i would up the cam to a crane 286 or slightly bigger.
#12
_lurkin308_
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Posted 11 August 2006 - 09:06 PM
i would go with what 1quicklj said go 286 crane 10 to 1 and 3500 converter thats what i have and im aiming for mid 11s and this engine was in my street car for 18 months no problem
#13
boomfunk
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Posted 11 August 2006 - 09:35 PM
im with struggler on the LT1 springs...
last i build a 308, i went zero deck height and 40thou off the heads, and a 60thou over bore, i had worked out roughly a compression of around 10.5 to 1..
i wasnt completly sure on the cam specs but i beleive the lift was somewhere in the 380 total lift... then i change to a cam that had a total lift of 490..
i do also no that LT1 springs can only handle camshaft not bigger than that..
All balanced , performer manifold 650 holley, very nice all round package, and not over expensive..
hypertec piston, it was actualy a HP block 308, HP written down the side they came out in the hk? ht's, from my infor, bigger webbing around the crank
last i build a 308, i went zero deck height and 40thou off the heads, and a 60thou over bore, i had worked out roughly a compression of around 10.5 to 1..
i wasnt completly sure on the cam specs but i beleive the lift was somewhere in the 380 total lift... then i change to a cam that had a total lift of 490..
i do also no that LT1 springs can only handle camshaft not bigger than that..
All balanced , performer manifold 650 holley, very nice all round package, and not over expensive..
hypertec piston, it was actualy a HP block 308, HP written down the side they came out in the hk? ht's, from my infor, bigger webbing around the crank
#14
_ozstreetcar_dave_
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Posted 12 August 2006 - 11:08 AM
If I was going to build a cheap 308 I would build the following
- 304 or 308 block
- VN heads, leave them almost standard, maybe clean the bowls up a bit and a 3 angle valve job, new springs
- Crane 286 or similar, anti-pump up lifters, hardened pushrods
- Flat top, hypertectic pistons, deck the block to zero
- A9L rods with ARP bolts
- Either a dual plane or single plane, I would go with a single plane because I am dumb and I like the way they look, would loose a little bottom end tho
- 650 street demon carby
- double row timing chain
should cost around 5k and make about 350+hp
- 304 or 308 block
- VN heads, leave them almost standard, maybe clean the bowls up a bit and a 3 angle valve job, new springs
- Crane 286 or similar, anti-pump up lifters, hardened pushrods
- Flat top, hypertectic pistons, deck the block to zero
- A9L rods with ARP bolts
- Either a dual plane or single plane, I would go with a single plane because I am dumb and I like the way they look, would loose a little bottom end tho
- 650 street demon carby
- double row timing chain
should cost around 5k and make about 350+hp
#15
TerrA LX
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Posted 12 August 2006 - 12:11 PM
if you are looking for a cam specifficly for burnouts then i would think you will need a cam with a tight lobe seperation of around 108 to 106 deg.
these type of cams produce strong power and torque but are not suited to low rpm crusing and prolonged idle as are 110 deg and larger.
these type of cams produce strong power and torque but are not suited to low rpm crusing and prolonged idle as are 110 deg and larger.
#16
boomfunk
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Posted 12 August 2006 - 01:34 PM
have agree totally with vn style heads, even standard they flow
#17
_RpM_
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Posted 12 August 2006 - 02:41 PM
Excellent, this is a huge help guys. Much appreciated... I have written down all these combos and should hopefully start doing the ring-around pricing when I get back from Perth. If you have any more info, keep it coming, I've still got a week and a half to get a full list :-)
#18
TerrA LX
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Posted 27 September 2006 - 04:12 AM
is there an update on how this motor went?
#19
_RpM_
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Posted 27 September 2006 - 07:30 PM
Nope - Sorry mate. I was involved in an accident in my ute just as I was getting into this stage of my Torana. And have since been tied up fixing the bloody thing. (read; spending more money on crap I really would have prefered not to) It was supposed to be finished long ago, but ive been held up with people selling me dodgy parts, and me not being smart enough to check it over before fitting it.
Hopefully within a week or two, the ute will be fixed 100% (just have to finish off the diff) sold, a new car bought, and work can resume on the motor / torana.
I still have all the info you guys provided saved, so i'm definately putting it to good use.
Hopefully within a week or two, the ute will be fixed 100% (just have to finish off the diff) sold, a new car bought, and work can resume on the motor / torana.
I still have all the info you guys provided saved, so i'm definately putting it to good use.
Edited by RpM, 27 September 2006 - 07:33 PM.
#20
TerrA LX
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Posted 27 September 2006 - 07:41 PM
sorry to hear of your set backs, dont worry if you heading in the right direction it can only get better.
dont forget to come back here with the update.
dont forget to come back here with the update.
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