92 replies to this topic

[yel327]

That memo isn't canning XU2, just not releasing it at SOP of LH. They instead released the SLR5000. I think at this time they still intended to build XU2 and they essentially did, just didn't assign the XU2 code. The "XU2" is probably the only car of its era not to get a package option code, it is simply an SLR5000 with an engine option applied, whereas everything else from cab-chassis with chrome grille and chrome hubcaps through to Vacationers, Deluxe packages, Sandman, HQ SS, HQ GTS sedan etc all had option codes for the packages.

[Shiney005]

I know that your memo wasn't canning the XU2, but the one I was given the other day, dated 13th March 1974 (Bulletin 91 to all dealers) states that the XU2 is not going to be produced. This may have been for the sole purpose of keeping dealer staff from spreading rumours of another supercar. I don't feel I have the right to put it up in here, but the bloke who gave it to me will be reading this, so I will leave it up to him. 

Have you noticed your post count? A+ for effort there.

[yel327]

I probably have it somewhere amongst bulletins. I only went through them looking for Sandman stuff, probably skimmed past all other stuff. GMH playing games again, hiding the XU2 in plain sight by not applying a code and just calling it an SLR5000 with an alternate 5.0L engine.

 

It is funny (but understandable) how touchy they were with Torana, both versions of the SLR5000 didn't get a special vehicle package code, not just what was to be XU2. Plus4 was A9L, Gpack was XV1 and XW1, XX3, XX4 and XX5 were respectively Philippines, NZ, Thailand and Malaysia LH packages. Plus the normal BO2 and BO3 Taxi packages. Yet SLR5000 and SLR500 with L34 engine were simply done by applying either L31 or L34 engines with mandatory inclusions. In Holden yes with L31 there were some mandatory inclusions (like M21, console shift and buckets (on some versions), front discs etc), but to get the front and rear spoilers, front sway bar and dual exhaust without creating a package code smells of trying to hide it a little. They sort of did this with GTS327 too, made it a separate model (1837) rather than it originally being option code XT2 on model 0737, whereby everything that it came with was standard with very few options available. By the time LH came around things were done differently with model codes, so it was always going to be a VD69 but the hidden detail was what came along with either L31 or L34. Once again, hidden in plain sight.

[Rainman]

Hey Yel327, I remember you mentioned somewhere in your post that GM had a ban placed on them in late 60s ? Is there any more information on the reason for the ban ? Rainman

[yel327]

After 1963. I’ll find you some links.

[yel327]

Minor stuff here. Will find better for you.
https://autoaction.c...12/cloak-dagger

[yel327]

Read down about 4-5 paragraphs here for more info.

https://www.google.c...acing-1963/amp/

Edited by yel327, 14 September 2019 - 01:25 PM.

[yel327]

Here is the reason for the 1957 agreement:

http://www.allfordmu...cing-1002.shtml

[yel327]

And here is some words about GM’s 1963 directive:
https://www.pontiacv...ing-ban-of-1963

[Shiney005]

I had seen the movie footage of the 1955 Le Mans race, but this is the first time I have looked at the photos. When you hear of 179 people injured and 84 killed it is a bit hard to picture it in your head, until you see the pictures. Although, with the incident being only 10 years after the bloodbath of WW2, it seems that the other spectators who were there at the time were a bit nonplussed by it all.

 

That last article was a good read Byron.  The quote by Bunkie Knudsen, "You can sell an old man a young man's car" reminds me of the V2 Monaro CV8 success story.

 

After reading the above articles, my opinion is that the first real muscle car was the '57 Pontiac Super Chief with the Tri Power 347 V8.

 Pontiac Super Chief 2.jpg   217.97K   3 downloads

 

I googled around for a picture, and came across this one.

 

   Pontiac Super Chief 1.jpg   317.11K   1 downloads

 

Which looked very familiar.  When I went to Phillip Island earlier in the year, I stayed in a house in Cowes and over the road was a single mum who had this as her daily driver. It was one of three Strato Chiefs built in the Holden plant for federal parliament, so Bob Menzies would have been driven around in this rocket ship.

 

   DSC_2147small.jpg   293.02K   1 downloads

 

I love the body shape of these in much the same way I have always really liked EK Holdens.

 Pontiac Super Chief 4.jpg   277.28K   1 downloads

 

To throw another spanner in the works, in the opening post it doesn't say anything about being licenced. In which case, Junior Johnson's Impala with the 650 H.P. 427 "Mystery Motor" would be king of the crop.

 

 Chevrolet 427 Mystery Motor. Between 15 and 50 made. 650HP.JPG   131.12K   1 downloads

 

With somewhere between 15 and 50 of the Mystery Motors being built, they would have to be one of the rarest as well. Tubular extractors were banned in Nascar, so they came up with these cast iron exhaust manifolds. You can also see the first use of angled valves in a Chevrolet motor. Edit. I just realised that the O.P. was talking about the 1970's. So ignore everything I say.

 

 Chevrolet 427 Mystery Motor. Between 15 and 50 made. 650HP a.JPG   111.14K   2 downloads

Edited by Shiney005, 15 September 2019 - 11:37 AM.

[yel327]

Yes, those ‘57 Pontiacs are beautiful. They share the same body with a ‘57 Chevrolet.

Those 427 Mystery motors are what became the Mark IV Chevy big block. Bunkie Knudsen took the design and some Engineers with him to Ford later in the 60’s and the result was the Cleveland and Boss Windsor -those heads are an outright copy of a BBC head.

[lakeside]

I'm sure I read somewhere years ago that there was a limited edition 426 Hemi in the pipeline for the Aussie Charger to homologate against the phase 4 falcon, but it never happened (damn 'muscle car scare').
 
Now that would have been a weapon!

Holden was testing a HQ 427 BBC which was good for 170mph. A friend was a test drive at GMH Lang Lang.

[yel327]

Are you sure it was a 427? These were finished by Sept 1969 in the US and replaced by 454. I have heard of big capacity Pontiac and Olds V8’s in HQ like 400 and 455, and I think 454 BBC. The basic HQ I think was to be some sort of Pontiac for the US for 1970, possibly for Canada, before it was sent here unfinished to become the HQ. So I guess some of the GM development stuff may have come here. The HV (became HJ) was supposed to get a 400ci SBC which was tested in a few HQ’s (eg 350Z) but it was pretty low powered that the new HJ 308 was deemed a better engine.

[lakeside]

I still remember the conversation and it may have been before the HQ was released. I still remember Doug telling me how f@#&ing fast it was.

[Shiney005]

It certainly looked like a muscle car.

 

 350Zsmall.jpg   105.59K   3 downloads

 

And the engineers working on it were playing around with carburation.

 

 350_Z_Ssmall.jpg   192.33K   4 downloads

 

 

[yel327]

^^It was a normal GTS350 until it was played with. It may have left GMH with the 400 which had been in a few different cars, it was only a 2BBL engine though, rego records have been found of one the cars it was in and it had the suffix on the papers. GMH did have just about every GM engine to play with so who knows what they tried.

Edited by yel327, 19 September 2019 - 05:58 AM.

[Shiney005]

The organising body believed that if the race was stopped, the entrance road would be blocked with patrons leaving the venue, making it difficult to get ambulances in.