28 replies to this topic

[Shiney005]

I have the L34 stripped and on a rotisserie at the moment. With the sound deadening paint removed from the car, I have noticed that mine seems to have twice as many spotwelds around the inner guards as the late '77 LX sedan alongside it.

Anyone able to dig out some old photos of stripped-sandblasted shells? 1974 ones would be good, but I am keen to see any.  

The area I am mainly interested in is pointed out by the yellow arrow in the picture.  I am also keen for close up shots of where the B pillar joins the roof. It seems that this was a running change as well.

 

This is Sloffadore's car from his build thread. I'd be keen to talk to him about his front inner guards if he is still around too.

 Screenshot 2023-08-12 121010.png   1.38MB   15 downloads

[rodomo]

My LJ had twice as many spot welds holding the RH guard on compared to the LH guard.

[Bruiser]

Could be just down to who was on which machine on any given day
and who cared enough to turn out a more thorough job

[S pack]

I have the L34 stripped and on a rotisserie at the moment. With the sound deadening paint removed from the car, I have noticed that mine seems to have twice as many spotwelds around the inner guards as the late '77 LX sedan alongside it.

Just an L34 thing?
 

[Shiney005]

My LJ had twice as many spot welds holding the RH guard on compared to the LH guard.

I heard that some LJ's had three doors as well. 

 

Could be just down to who was on which machine on any given day
and who cared enough to turn out a more thorough job

My panel beater specialises in old cars and has restored quite a few Toranas, including a couple of ex HDT hatchbacks. The '77 sedan he is also working on at the moment needed a new right hand rear quarter. He drilled out the spotwelds of one from a donor car, then removed the one from the car being worked on. The holes matched up almost perfectly, which makes me think the production line workers back in the day may have been working from a template.

My car looks to have an extra weld between every other one. He believes it was done at the factory as all the welds are identical, and it is impossible to get to that area with a spot welder once the car is assembled.

I get what you are saying though. Uneducated migrants learning the job as they go doesn't make for exact tolerances in manufacturing, however that could also lend credit to the spotweld template theory as well.

 

Just an L34 thing?
 

I have just seen some photos of another L34 stripped to the same stage as mine in Perth. (Maroon car too!) From the pics it looks to be the same as mine. I will be contacting the owner this morning to see if I can head down there and have a look for myself.  It could be an L34 thing, or it could be an early Torana thing. The roof section where the B pillar joins is a different pressing in later cars. This, along with the spotwelds, may have changed when the reinforcing in the boot was removed. Or when the (front) inner guards were changed. Or when the anti intrusion beams were added to the doors. Or when the seatbelts changed position. Or when the seat bolts were removed etc etc. It is why I need to see the inner guards from a mid 1975 car, and a June to August 1974 car.

I wont put a specific photo up Dave, for reasons you are only too well aware of, however I will put this one here so you can all see where it is at.

 

 IMG_9247 small.jpg   318.16K   7 downloads

[UCSLE]

dont know if this helps but had a look at some of the cars here 

 

1st pic is of a LH , hard to tell but spot welds seam to be about 20-25mm apart

2nd pic is of a LX about 25mm

another LH here could only see 2 spot welds was the same as 1st pic

and the other cars here i couldnt see much

 arch1.jpg   427.52K   4 downloads

 

 arch2.jpg   446.17K   5 downloads

 

 

[Shiney005]

It is hard to tell without the underbody paint being removed. What month//year is the LH?

[UCSLE]

12-75 L32 Slr

[ReplicarSLR]

Hi Laurie,

How do the LH spot welds compare to the LX spotwelds, I know you have a very good unmolested LX sedan shell as well hehe!!!

[Shiney005]

There are just more of them John. Your old car still has the paint in the inner guards so I can't see the welds in that one, but the other LX in the panelbeaters at the moment was built around the same timeframe.

I am heading to Perth tomorrow to look at the Burgundy car so should know more then.

[yel327]

Do you think it's only the XU2/L34 bodies Laurie? As they knew the quarter to wheel well joints would be compromised for flares?

 

If that is the case then Engineers shouldn't be passing any LH-LX for fitment of flares. Unless they are strengthened in that weld area.

[308 Sunbird]

Now there's a can of worms.

[Shiney005]

Do you think it's only the XU2/L34 bodies Laurie? As they knew the quarter to wheel well joints would be compromised for flares?

The next newest car I've seen is Troy's in the above post. 12-75.  I need to see a pre Sept 74 (non L34) car to be sure.

[yel327]

In theory you shouldn't be allowed to put a 350 in any HT-HG either as the original GTS350's were a stronger body shell to all the rest.

[LCK186]

hi stronger body not sure what you are saying     all hk t g bodies are the same no extra spot welds ect  like you i have owned many monaros as for the flairs on toranas  why would you need engineers approval  they are add ons only weight 1kg each

[dattoman]

The next newest car I've seen is Troy's in the above post. 12-75.  I need to see a pre Sept 74 (non L34) car to be sure.

 

 

 DSC_1218.JPG   286.54K   7 downloads

 

Mine if you want a look

[yel327]

hi stronger body not sure what you are saying all hk t g bodies are the same no extra spot welds ect like you i have owned many monaros as for the flairs on toranas why would you need engineers approval they are add ons only weight 1kg each

A HT-HG HTS350 body is stronger in the rear floor plan. It was done that way due to the extra power and torque of the 350ci engine. Especially when raced. Remember GMH were evaluating building Old Man Emu which was a HT with the LT1 engine from the 1970 Z28. It was canned when it was announced all those hipo engines would be finished by the end of July 1970 (replaced with the low compression engines as we got in HQ) and the cost of that engine, the Muncie and 12 bolt would make the car too expensive. So they built the LC XU1 instead.

My question was not about the weight of the flares, it is about the strength lost if the rear wheel arches are hacked out. I was postulating that the extra spot welds Laurie is asking about may be there on L34 to allow for this. If this is the case, an Engineer should not pass an LH-LX with cut rear quarters without extra welding as per original. The same way a larger capacity (high power and torque) engine should not be Engineered in and HK-HG apart from GTS350. At least not without doing something equivalent to what GHM did.

[LCK186]

Hi rear floor pans are no different  on hk t g in strengthining         as for l34 rear arch cut is very minimum all they did was weld the 2 together again why would you need extra spot welds for engineering 

[yel327]

I just explained what is different in GTS350. It is fact, if it wasn’t I would not have stated it. If you choose to believe otherwise then that is not my problem.

I don’t think I can explain the extra spot weld question any clearer, so no point repeating. This isn’t fact, it was a question and possible solution to the whole point of this thread which itself is asking a question.

[Shiney005]

DSC_1218.JPG

 

Mine if you want a look

I can't see Gary's car until next Thursday now Datto. What time will you knock off on that day?  Can you have the inner guards sandblasted by the time I get there? 

[claysummers]

Unskilled labour let loose with the spot welder. I’ve seen some pretty random efforts on some of the earlier bodies.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[dattoman]

I can't see Gary's car until next Thursday now Datto. What time will you knock off on that day?  Can you have the inner guards sandblasted by the time I get there? 

 

Next Thursday I'll be home just before 6. Have my grandson for the weekend

 

No sand blasting

[Shiney005]

I will have to make it next weekend now Neil. Those Chapman brothers are hard to get hold of. Gary doesn't even have a phone so I am trying to organise a day to see the car through his brother who only likes going through Andrew Beale. Frustrating to say the least.

I will give you a ring maybe Friday arvo as I think I will be back down that way then.

[dattoman]

Thats fine

Worked yesterday and had the 7 yr old all weekend

Currently sitting on me

 

Not working next weekend

[Shiney005]

I tried to call you a couple of times on Sunday, but no communicado. 

 

The spot welds are definitely different to your run of the mill LH.  Anyone got a picture of a sandblasted inner rear guard of an A9X 4 door?  A PM rather than posting them here would be the go.

Edited by Shiney005, 05 September 2023 - 11:50 AM.