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LX Ignition switch issue


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#1 AmazonaLX

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Posted 06 October 2023 - 03:29 PM

Hi
I am close to completing my LX rebuild and have 2 issues prior to getting an exhaust fitted
I installed a replacement ignition barrel for my LX Torana taking care to ensure that the barrel steering lock,lock pinion and rod in the column align up and appears to work ok on accessories, as does the steering lock, ON lights and starts, although the car won't turn off and you can turn the barrel without the key.
I tried adjusting the switch on its slotted bracket under the column per Terr A LX reply to a similar post in December 2011 and after checking everything and sorting out issues with the high beam and indicators, etc feel that l may need someone such as a mobile auto electrician with experience with the older Holdens or someone else with experience who lives in northwest Sydney as l have limited time atm, knowledge and ability.
I also have no reverse lights but power to the switch lead.it may need repair or replacement although l cant remember the last time one of my cars was ever checked for this at pink or blue slip time.
I look forward to anyone who can advise with this please.
Thank you. Peter

#2 LJ RB30

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Posted 06 October 2023 - 07:05 PM

So the ignition barrel feels like it does what it should other than turning of the engine?
What type of ignition system do you have? Standard LX or other?
My bet is that you may be still powering the ignition system through your alternator charge light.
A diode fitted in the wiring to the light will fix it if that’s the issue.
Cant help off the top of my head with your other issue

#3 AmazonaLX

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Posted 07 October 2023 - 10:17 AM

Thanks for the prompt reply.
Yes that's correct.
It's an RAE electronic ignition from Repco that seems to run well.l ran the ignition wire to it via a relay.
I should have mentioned that has had the battery light start to come on recently when l turn it off since I've been moving the ignition switch up and down the column so maybe it has been powering the engine even without the light displaying?
I've just been frazzled by it all.
Your suggestion sounds like it may be the issue.
- I also fitted a kill switch to override the ignition relay which I've been using to turn the engine off.

#4 LJ RB30

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Posted 07 October 2023 - 10:42 AM

Simple way to test is to start the engine then turn the key off.
Then pull the wire off the alternator that goes to the light.
If the engine stops then that’s the cause.
Relays can be held in by such a small current the light won’t illuminate.

#5 AmazonaLX

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Posted 09 October 2023 - 10:49 AM

So l removed the instrument panel cover and gauges mount and removed the alternator bulb holder.
I started the car and tuned the ignition off and removed the alternator bulb and the engine stopped! I did it again and it stopped. That's amazing.
So its using power from the instrument fuse through the alternator bulb back to the alternator which keeps the engine running?
So that powers the coil ?
So l understand that the diode acts as a check valve/one way and fit it between the alternator bulb and the alternator so current only flows from the alternator to the bulb ?
Thank you again. I hope that l can return the courtesy one day or pass it on.
I've learnt so much about the car and electrical system and thought that l had learnt it all after the ignition resistance wire delete for the ignition and faulty factory high beam relay.

#6 yel327

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Posted 09 October 2023 - 11:40 AM

No. The alternator requires excitation, and this is achieved by the 12V feed through the lamp on the dash to the alternator field terminal. The car should keep running if that bulb is removed, it just runs off battery. The alternator may continue to charge once its excited, if you remove the excitation - there may be residual magnetism that keeps it going.

 

The coil should be connected to a 12V ignition source.



#7 Rockoz

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Posted 09 October 2023 - 11:43 AM

Wouldnt mind betting that there is a faulty diode in the alternator.

 

Cheers

 

Rob



#8 dron

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Posted 09 October 2023 - 05:38 PM

Hi

   The power fron the altonater through the globe holds in the relay that was added to power the coil. Add a diod to allow the globe to feed the altonater but stop the altonater back feeding the globe when the ignishion is turned off and all will be good. Not needed if you run the stock setup as the globe will not run the coil, It will hold in a relay as this only needs 20 to 30 mA to hold in.



#9 AmazonaLX

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Posted 09 October 2023 - 08:22 PM

Thanks for the helpful replies.
Yes, it probably wouldn't hurt to have the alternator checked over in any case having sat for about 15 years.
So to fit a diode to the alternator light/lamp, would it go on the power wire side coming from the fuse, with the cathode side to the light ?
I wouldn't know what type to fit and if they are they soldered, I would imagine that they would be sensitive to too much heat?
I'm in Sydney's Hills district if anyone can alternatively, suggest a suitable mobile auto electrician.

#10 yel327

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Posted 10 October 2023 - 05:48 AM

I still don't fully get the logic of adding a relay to the alternator excitation/field circuit. The whole idea of this is that the point between the dash lamp and the field changes from 0V (or close to it) without the engine running to 12V with the engine running hence why the lamp goes out. So in theory the relay shouldn't close until the engine is running. You want the coil energised prior to cranking.



#11 Rockoz

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Posted 10 October 2023 - 11:02 AM

Love it when people overcomplicate a system that worked well in millions of vehicles over the years.

Instead of compensating for a problem, the easiest fix is to fix the initial problem.

Adding complexity rarely works well long term.

 

Cheers

 

Rob



#12 dron

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Posted 10 October 2023 - 05:11 PM

Adding a relay is nessorey if you use an electronic distrubutor on a car with a nicrome wire in the loom to feed the older style coil/ points system.

 

                It also is a good idear to take the load off the 30+ year old electrical system rather than add extra load to the old wiaring when adding lights ,ans etc. I use a modern relay/ fuse box and feed the power from the 120A altonater viar a fusabel link to run my MSD ignishion, 3 Electric fans, AC system etc. No load on the old switches and everything works and lastes longer with good switching. Best not done by someone who is not good at electrical work.



#13 dron

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Posted 10 October 2023 - 05:26 PM

     The stripe at the end of a "silicone rectifyer" dioad 2 ot 3 amp rating from Jaycar, Alltronics or your nearest supplyer (Bigger is mechanicaly stronger) put into the wire near the altonater will fix your problem. That is stripe end to altonator so it will be excited and not feed back. Crimping it in will work but solder is better. Always a good idear to add some " dual wall" heatshrink over the dioad and joints to help take the stress off the leads so it will not break the legs off the diode with the long tearm vibration. Common on lots of cars and industrial equipment to have this setup from new.



#14 yel327

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Posted 10 October 2023 - 05:41 PM

You don't need a relay. Just bridge the pink and yellow wires at the ignition switch, then you always get 12V at the coil. Then if you want use that to drive a relay coil.



#15 AmazonaLX

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Posted 10 October 2023 - 09:13 PM

Thank you all.
I will get the alternator checked over Rockoz but need a fix so l can just get an exhaust fitted.
Thanks dron for the detailed instructions. I will carefully solder and double heat shrink it.
The car is running an RAE electronic distributor and coil Yel327 and l had shorted the pink to the ignition wire to a relay - l learnt from previous posts,for 12v to the coil when running and seems to work well except for this issue.
It seems to be a happy stock little 253. :)

#16 AmazonaLX

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Posted 07 November 2023 - 08:21 PM

Apologies for not getting back. I've been very busy getting the house up to scratch as l have to move.
Thanks again dron and everyone. l picked up a 4amp diode and installed it as suggested and the car now turns off with the ignition switch. Hopefully that is the end of any electrical issues although my ignition switch be turned without the key.
It is a rare spares one. - I had tried a kingswood country one which locked up.

#17 AmazonaLX

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Posted 07 November 2023 - 08:33 PM

Apologies for not getting back. I've been very busy getting the house up to scratch as l have to move.
Thanks again dron and everyone. l picked up a 4amp diode and installed it as suggested and the car now turns off with the ignition switch. Hopefully that is the end of any electrical issues although my ignition switch be turned without the key.
It is a rare spares one. - I had tried a kingswood country one which locked up.




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