27 replies to this topic

[salamiman]

Hi All,

Bit of Feed back on my recent 202 rebuild with R154 box.

The R154 fitted in a LJ 2door 11/72(orig Auto) without any tunnel mods, Did have to kick the gearbox to pass side about 10mm by packing the eng mounts with a couple of washers.

The direct mount MA70 supra box gear level clears the handbrake by 5mm in 3rd & 4th gear!

The gearbox doesnt feel as easy through the gears as the m22, but its only early days, the r154 box had been sitting for a long while, so hopfully may loosen up.

 

The Engine.(only done 100km or so on it)

202 40 thou, starfire rods, flat tops, balanced, Head HSD bathurst, 1.65 rockers, crow 35803 solid 3-6.5k, hei ign, triple HS6 SUs, SBC fuel pump, 11-1 comp.

Nothing that amazing above.I initially run the cam in & had a few short runs with XU1 headers that had around 700mm of 48mm exhaust tube attached(waiting for the exhaust shop). Whilst the engine seemed pretty good it definatly lacked tourque. Eventually got to the exhaust shop & explained that i didnt want to spend too much as i was toying with dropping a 308 in for drivability ect, but did want to try 60'' primarys as per 2door350 dyno research with 202s & Xu1 headers. He didnt want to entertain the idea,make no difference, too hard ect...., but eventually came around.

Holy shit the difference was like night & day.

The engine behaves allmost like a std eng, not rough & the torque is awesome from 2k up(not 3500).

I can pull away from 1500 rpm in top gear!

Being new, i have only taken it to 5000 as yet but pulls hard all the way, will be interesting to see where the torque drops away.

Needless to say i have dropped the V8 idea ATM, this setup is awesome.

Got me thinking of a brake upgrade & will have to get onto the diff, as i only have std LJ discs & a 3.36 banjo.

Anyway this site is an absolute wealth of knowledge & an goldmine when it comes to finding out about our Toranas & the old engines that power them.

Hoped i can help someone else a little with the feedback.

Cheers to All.

Bruce. 

 

Edited by salamiman, 24 November 2023 - 03:12 PM.

[salamiman]

forgot how to send a pic

Attached Files

•  202 build small.jpg   326.2K   5 downloads

[Bruiser]

That’s terrific mate
Great that it’s turned out so good for you.
Interesting about your exhaust findings
Just wait till you get into the fine tuning after it’s run in
and find a bit more here and there
Exciting stuff

[claysummers]

I wasn’t that familiar with this box. Googled $3500 which I assume is brand new, from Nunnawading Toyota. A brand new box will be tight no doubt but looks like a solid setup for a 202 or more.

Also running HS6 and cast headers, I’ve often thought of long primaries or even 2 in 2 out muffler. It isn’t really fair comparing the drivability with an open exhaust though. What diameter are the primaries? Got to love the Triple HS6s as Bruiser and others will agree.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[salamiman]

Hey Bruiser, the engine builder went with the original engine,  I'm guessing he thought it was a runner with no problems and as it had very little work, honed it only, once I get the diff sorted out I'll get it dynoed so we really know what's going on here, any idea of hp drivetrain loss in hp?, are we talking 100hp for man gbox & diff?

My other car is a 2019 SRT with 440 rwhp, so have a bit of an idea of what decent hp feels like & this 202 has surprised me.

Edited by salamiman, 24 November 2023 - 08:43 PM.

[salamiman]

So clay picked up this r154 for 800 bucks on Gumtree so done pretty well there I reckon, got a secondhand bell housing for around 300 and an adapter plate through Dellow for 450 so in the end not too bad.

Original engine was similar with the same running gear but a 70/30 watson cam, original exhaust  48 millimeter primaries of around 700mm with no expansion chamber, no torque.Trialed 60 inch primaries With with this old setup plus expansion and there was a definite improvement but the two pipes weren't quite the same length as directed, this time with the new build we made sure they were. The difference was awesome, as I responded to Bruiser really feels strong and keeps pulling to the point where  these old cars feels a little unsafe at those speeds.

I read a story about Harry Firth driving up through West Wyalong in an LC with a 308 in it doing 160 to 170 miles an hour, bloody hell! 

[salamiman]

and lynx manifold has the centre posts removed & port matched, exhaust matched as well.

Im keen to get right up this thing to see what it will rev like.

[I'm a Red Motor fiend]

11:1 comp and only standard likely re used head bolts may be a concern?
Does the head have screw in studs?

[salamiman]

No Adam, Engine built by Dewars performance Albury.

Did read your post back in 2016 re small weep as i had the same going on.

Spoke to them, said its fairly common, should subside with more eng cycles, as only using rainwater ATM & that seems to be whats hapening, they also mentioned some cube of stuff you can crush up & mix with water, apparently holden dealers used t do this back in the day, does surprise me it should leak at all, as both surfaces were shaved.

Def no rad bubbles or milky oil.

Fingers crossed.

[yel327]

So clay picked up this r154 for 800 bucks on Gumtree so done pretty well there I reckon, got a secondhand bell housing for around 300 and an adapter plate through Dellow for 450 so in the end not too bad.
Original engine was similar with the same running gear but a 70/30 watson cam, original exhaust 48 millimeter primaries of around 700mm with no expansion chamber, no torque.Trialed 60 inch primaries With with this old setup plus expansion and there was a definite improvement but the two pipes weren't quite the same length as directed, this time with the new build we made sure they were. The difference was awesome, as I responded to Bruiser really feels strong and keeps pulling to the point where these old cars feels a little unsafe at those speeds.
I read a story about Harry Firth driving up through West Wyalong in an LC with a 308 in it doing 160 to 170 miles an hour, bloody hell!

I think that was Larry Perkins. Harry was trying to keep up in his 308 HQ coupe.

[I'm a Red Motor fiend]

I meant more in the sense of not enough clamping force and high compression could lead to the head lifting.

Also asked about screw in studs because when you start to lift higher, standard rocker studs will pull out.

[I'm a Red Motor fiend]

What sort of head gasket was used?

[rexy]

You need to run very light oil in that gearbox. It should be very smooth and light to shift. The clutch adjustment can make a big difference to shift feel.

[salamiman]

Yel, all i can say they had some balls to push those things to that speed, ive had the Lj to a little over 200k, but its not a GTR, everythig feels like its just hanging together though.

 

Adam, No Idea on the head gasket, type used not on the invoice(great minds think alike, was one of the first things i checked).

 

Hi Rexy, running castrol VMX80 ATM, second is tight/stiff to get in untill things warm up a little(10-15mins driving), another old mechanic mate mentioned auto trans fluid, had read about this on some other forums as well.

Was wondering if it was down to poor input shaft alignment, due to adaptor bell plus 30mm plate, but seems to be much better once warm.

The box is 2nd hand, so who knows what cond it is in internally(worn syncros), time will tell i suppose.

[rexy]

The VMX 80 is the correct oil for that box.

I added some Nulon gear oil additive the last time I had the box out and it seemed to improve shifting. That box had about 250,000 km on it at that stage.

[salamiman]

You need to run very light oil in that gearbox. It should be very smooth and light to shift. The clutch adjustment can make a big difference to shift feel.

Re Clutch adjustment.

Running a mal wood hyd throwout, the bearing is extended 30mm towards the engine to account for the 30mm spacer plate.

Was wondering if this may have been flexing sideways, putting pressure on the input shaft, making second firm to Engauge, but again all other gears seem fine.

I am running a cheap ass Chinese cube knockoff short shifter?

I have the clutch set to disengage about 35-45 % in 100% being fully in, how is yours set?

Would say i get a clean easy change into second up of down 50% of the time, all other gears 100% good, so im thinking an issue.

[salamiman]

Re Clutch adjustment.

Running a mal wood hyd throwout, the bearing is extended 30mm towards the engine to account for the 30mm spacer plate.

Was wondering if this may have been flexing sideways, putting pressure on the input shaft, making second firm to Engauge, but again all other gears seem fine.

I am running a cheap ass Chinese cube knockoff short shifter?

I have the clutch set to disengage about 35-45 % in 100% being fully in, how is yours set?

Would say i get a clean easy change into second up of down 50% of the time, all other gears 100% good, so im thinking an issue.

Changes into 2nd seem better with the pedal fully depressed, ive tried double clutching ect, but again no real pattern to it, just clicks in easy when it wants to???

[salamiman]

I am running a cheap ass Chinese cube knockoff short shifter?

Was going to use this for testing purposes & buy an oem original, but apparently not made anymore.

was wondering if i could use a JSX110 shifter(extended housing, but direct mount), but not sure it will adapt. 

[rexy]

Thats a high pedal release compared to mine.

I have a cable setup in the hatch and Hyd old style setup in the LJ.

 

Both seem fine when shifted hard 1-2. Sometimes i get slack with fully depressing the pedal for full release.

 

It took quite a bit of fiddling in the LJ to get the clutch fork sweep angle correct but that isn’t relevant to your setup.

 

Is your bearing spacer metal and does the bearing have enough input shaft cover for its full forward travel?

[salamiman]

The hydraulic bearing has an extension on the hydraulic housing, so the hydraulic throw out is still one unit made up of two parts. Just 30 mm longer than normal, so yes, the bearing is out past the end of the cover certainly don't hear or feel any grinding of the bearing extension on the input shaft.
I did check the fit before installation but who knows. Under pressure it could be touching but I doubt it.
So are you saying your clutch releases close to the floor or just as you press it in Mines releasing about a third of the way in so a fair bit of travel left to get to the floor. I might have to test how far I push the clutch in and see if that makes any difference to shift quality.

[rexy]

My release is very close to floor level, the way I like it.

 

Clutches are both organic Toyota friction plates with HD standard type pressure plates although to get the LJ right I had to use a raised finger diaphragm. Could have used a longer throw out bearing carrier but that was more mucking around.

[salamiman]

Reckon the raised finger's on the pressure plate in hindsight may have been a better solution for me as well. For future ref, was it an off the shelf item or custom pressure plate, Im guessing the fingers were raised approx 30mm?

[rexy]

It was an off the shelf item.

 

 IMG_3593.jpeg   502.73K   2 downloads

 

Not sure what the measured height difference was but it was enough to get me sorted.

Edited by rexy, 01 December 2023 - 09:42 AM.

[rexy]

I had a couple of throw out carriers to chose from but still needed the help from the pressure plate height.

 

 IMG_3582.jpeg   102.54K   2 downloads

[salamiman]

do you remember what the raised unit is, what was it off?