Ok guys. I've recently purchased a set of 19 inch rims for my torana, they were commodore pattern and im now in the middle of changing my torana to commodore stud so I can fit bigger brakes and the wheels.
I changed my nine inch axels to commodore stud and have vn rear discs on the back. They are pretty much done and everything clears fine.
The drama I am having is with the front brakes. I have read the threads on changing to HQ stud on the front, which I have been told is farely close to commodore stud anyways.
At the moment I am using a VK rotor, HX or HQ axel stub, a girlock alloy caliper, and using all the standard torana steering mounts, which have been reversed so that the caliper sits on the front. I have grinded the calipers on both the top and bottom so that they clear steering mounts.
I was just wondering if this will work, or if it has worked for anyone else but they have done something slightly different.
If you guys need more of a mental image to understand what I have just said than I will get some pictures of it the next time I have the wheels off and im working on it....
Thanks in advance for any help...
Dean
Commodore stud conversion on Torana
Started by
_cal-a-kid_
, Sep 21 2006 10:23 AM
25 replies to this topic
#2
knoath
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#3
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Posted 21 September 2006 - 08:28 PM
Hey dean - long time no chat!! Good luck with your probs man, it's got me buggered...
Put up a pic of the LX and your 19's, i'd love to see em!!
Cheers
Keith
Put up a pic of the LX and your 19's, i'd love to see em!!
Cheers
Keith
#4
_Sammy_
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Posted 22 September 2006 - 10:56 AM
I didn't know you could use a commodore disc with HQ-Z calipers, but if it fits fine then why not 
other than that, i can't say a whole lot without seeing some pics.
other than that, i can't say a whole lot without seeing some pics.
#5
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Posted 23 September 2006 - 12:16 AM
You could, but it isn't recomended.
#6
_cal-a-kid_
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Posted 09 October 2006 - 11:30 AM
Why isn't it recomended chopper? It seems to look alright to me???
I have ground the calipers away from the top and bottom and they mount fine, I just have to check it all for clearances the next time I get it up on the hoist.
Dean
I have ground the calipers away from the top and bottom and they mount fine, I just have to check it all for clearances the next time I get it up on the hoist.
Dean
#7
TerrA LX
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Posted 09 October 2006 - 11:48 AM
isn't there an offset difference from HQ to commy when mixing calipers and rotors. (5mm or 10 mm, can't remember)
Edited by ALX76, 09 October 2006 - 11:49 AM.
#8
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Posted 09 October 2006 - 01:57 PM
according to DBA's specs on these rotors there are some differences ... firstly, the pad area thickness is 22mm for the VK v's the 25.4mm for the HQ, so i guess using the VK rotors with the HQ calipers should fit but you might find the piston comes out too far (although i don't think 3.4mm would cause that issue)
the next difference is the distance from the back of the disc to the wheel mounting face, the vk has 82mm v's the hq's 72mm .... so using the vk disc would make the wheel sit out 10mm further, this would probably mean more clearance for ball joints and calipers, but it would mean more chance of the wheels hitting the guards.
if however the above two things arn't a problem and the caliper fits the disc properly then i can't see why you couldn't do it.
if it was me i'd be trying to get that setup onto a torana stub axle though as the HQ stub will give you the 1 inch drop in suspension height and also the 2 degrees extra negative camber. ... plus it wont steer prefectly!
the next difference is the distance from the back of the disc to the wheel mounting face, the vk has 82mm v's the hq's 72mm .... so using the vk disc would make the wheel sit out 10mm further, this would probably mean more clearance for ball joints and calipers, but it would mean more chance of the wheels hitting the guards.
if however the above two things arn't a problem and the caliper fits the disc properly then i can't see why you couldn't do it.
if it was me i'd be trying to get that setup onto a torana stub axle though as the HQ stub will give you the 1 inch drop in suspension height and also the 2 degrees extra negative camber. ... plus it wont steer prefectly!
#9
bryanw
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Posted 09 October 2006 - 03:22 PM
The com wheel offset is less to make up for the mounting face further out.
tyre roughly in the same place, just offsets are different
3mm is a lot in regards to extra piston travel!
HQ uprights are effectively 1'' dropped spindles in the LH/LJ
the HQ bearing hub sticks out more than the comm one, so lots mags wont fit onto the HQ disk regardless of the .6mm pcd difference.
so you can get blank HQ disks, drill them to comm stud pattern, but then the offset is wrong and some wheels wont fit anyway as there is no room for the hub bearing inside the wheel. try one before you go to to much trouble.
cant see any easy way using comm wheels other than putting a vt kit on it.
early com brakes are useless anyway, LH are probably better.
not to mention they would look silly behind 19'' rims.
if it cost 1000 to fit vt brakes, it may be the cheapest investment you have made.
imho
tyre roughly in the same place, just offsets are different
3mm is a lot in regards to extra piston travel!
HQ uprights are effectively 1'' dropped spindles in the LH/LJ
the HQ bearing hub sticks out more than the comm one, so lots mags wont fit onto the HQ disk regardless of the .6mm pcd difference.
so you can get blank HQ disks, drill them to comm stud pattern, but then the offset is wrong and some wheels wont fit anyway as there is no room for the hub bearing inside the wheel. try one before you go to to much trouble.
cant see any easy way using comm wheels other than putting a vt kit on it.
early com brakes are useless anyway, LH are probably better.
not to mention they would look silly behind 19'' rims.
if it cost 1000 to fit vt brakes, it may be the cheapest investment you have made.
imho
#10
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Posted 09 October 2006 - 06:21 PM
The three main problems are:
#1 Disc thickness. As the Commodore disc is 3.4 MM thinner than the HQ disc, this could potentially cause a problem with the piston extending further than it was originally intended.
#2 Disc diameter. The Commodore disc is 9 MM smaller in diameter than the HQ disc. This then places the pad close to, or on the edge of the disc. This wil cause overheating of the disc.
Probable the best way to get around this would be to obtain a pair of DBA 019 and get them turned down to the same diameter of the HQ disc. It's 25 MM thick from new, which is only 0.4 MM thinner than the HQ.
#3 There is of course the unknown issue of whether or not the caliper will hit the hub of the Commodore disc or not.
If all is well with this conversion, then there is still a chance that the 19x8 wheel/ tyre combo will hit the control arms. I can guarentee they WILL hit the sway bar when getting close to full lock.
#1 Disc thickness. As the Commodore disc is 3.4 MM thinner than the HQ disc, this could potentially cause a problem with the piston extending further than it was originally intended.
#2 Disc diameter. The Commodore disc is 9 MM smaller in diameter than the HQ disc. This then places the pad close to, or on the edge of the disc. This wil cause overheating of the disc.
Probable the best way to get around this would be to obtain a pair of DBA 019 and get them turned down to the same diameter of the HQ disc. It's 25 MM thick from new, which is only 0.4 MM thinner than the HQ.
#3 There is of course the unknown issue of whether or not the caliper will hit the hub of the Commodore disc or not.
If all is well with this conversion, then there is still a chance that the 19x8 wheel/ tyre combo will hit the control arms. I can guarentee they WILL hit the sway bar when getting close to full lock.
#11
dattoman
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Posted 10 October 2006 - 12:38 AM
DBA19's are 28mm thick
#12
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Posted 10 October 2006 - 05:52 PM
Sorry, I was looking at the minimum thickness. In that case, you could get the pads buffed a few mm to get around that. Also, I bought a pair of DBA019's earlier this year, so I DO know how much they cost.
#13
_cal-a-kid_
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Posted 14 October 2006 - 03:31 PM
So what should I do?
Should I try and use the hq caliper or just bin it and get something better suited?
If I do go to VT brakes what will I need to do?
At the moment the wheels are sitting exactly where I want them, it looks awesome! So is there anyway of leaving the current set up in the way of ride height, and just finding calipers to suit?
Brakes are definatly not my thing, so if someone could pretty much walk me through this step by step I would be so so sooooooooooo thankful!!!!
Here is a pic with the 19's, please be kind, I know its not everyones kettle of fish.
Dean
Should I try and use the hq caliper or just bin it and get something better suited?
If I do go to VT brakes what will I need to do?
At the moment the wheels are sitting exactly where I want them, it looks awesome! So is there anyway of leaving the current set up in the way of ride height, and just finding calipers to suit?
Brakes are definatly not my thing, so if someone could pretty much walk me through this step by step I would be so so sooooooooooo thankful!!!!
Here is a pic with the 19's, please be kind, I know its not everyones kettle of fish.
Dean
#14
dattoman
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Posted 14 October 2006 - 03:37 PM
1. What stub axles are they on the car now?
2. What disc is under the wheels right now ?
3. Whats your intended use for the vehicle ?
4. Do you want to just drive in / drive out or do you want to try fitup yourself ?
5. How much money you want to spend ?
2. What disc is under the wheels right now ?
3. Whats your intended use for the vehicle ?
4. Do you want to just drive in / drive out or do you want to try fitup yourself ?
5. How much money you want to spend ?
#15
Toranavista
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Posted 14 October 2006 - 04:52 PM
6. WTF are you?
#16
_used2have1_
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Posted 14 October 2006 - 05:35 PM
I have VT disks on the front looking at maybe doing the rear.
#17
dattoman
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Posted 14 October 2006 - 07:51 PM
I figured by the rego sticker he was nowhere near me so I didn't offer to come have a look6. WTF are you?
Hence my questions
#18
_cal-a-kid_
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Posted 16 October 2006 - 01:43 AM
1. What stub axles are they on the car now?
Im pretty sure I have HQ stub axels. Is there a difference between HQ and HZ stub axels???
2. What disc is under the wheels right now ?
I have VK discs at the moment, but would consider an upgrade.
3. Whats your intended use for the vehicle ?
Drags.
4. Do you want to just drive in / drive out or do you want to try fitup yourself ?
100% fit myself, I do everything to my car that I can
5. How much money you want to spend ?
Nothing if possible, I have access to a wreckers with alot of older holden parts and I can pretty much get anything I need/want. But I would be willing to spend up to $500 if I had to.
Once i have finished uni and have a full time job, I want to do a mad HSV spec upgrade all round with the nice hsv calipers and drilled and slotted rotors but for now its hard to do up a car like this on a hungry jacks wage. Im only 21 and its a long term project, but I would like to have it ready for a quick trip to drop my little brother off to formal on november 14th, so only like a month to get the brakes on and working.
WHAT SHOULD I DO DATTOMAN???
Dean
Im pretty sure I have HQ stub axels. Is there a difference between HQ and HZ stub axels???
2. What disc is under the wheels right now ?
I have VK discs at the moment, but would consider an upgrade.
3. Whats your intended use for the vehicle ?
Drags.
4. Do you want to just drive in / drive out or do you want to try fitup yourself ?
100% fit myself, I do everything to my car that I can
5. How much money you want to spend ?
Nothing if possible, I have access to a wreckers with alot of older holden parts and I can pretty much get anything I need/want. But I would be willing to spend up to $500 if I had to.
Once i have finished uni and have a full time job, I want to do a mad HSV spec upgrade all round with the nice hsv calipers and drilled and slotted rotors but for now its hard to do up a car like this on a hungry jacks wage. Im only 21 and its a long term project, but I would like to have it ready for a quick trip to drop my little brother off to formal on november 14th, so only like a month to get the brakes on and working.
WHAT SHOULD I DO DATTOMAN???
Dean
#19
_cal-a-kid_
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Posted 16 October 2006 - 02:01 AM
By the way, this is an engine bay pic.
good old rb30, its putting out 180kw's at the treads, with no timing and only 10 pound
The whole reason im doing the brakes is because my tuner said he wouldn't tune it for anymore boost without upgrading to rear discs.
Hoping to get it straight into the 13's and slowly work it down to a lowish 12 once its all sorted.
good old rb30, its putting out 180kw's at the treads, with no timing and only 10 pound
The whole reason im doing the brakes is because my tuner said he wouldn't tune it for anymore boost without upgrading to rear discs.
Hoping to get it straight into the 13's and slowly work it down to a lowish 12 once its all sorted.
#20
_the gts_
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Posted 16 October 2006 - 03:43 AM
cal-a kid
I had HZ stubs with commy rotors (i think the 290mm ones) i machined down the OD (about 3mm i think) and everything was spot on. commodore rotors use the same bearing as the torana ones and for some reason there is no problem with the offset when using commy offset wheels.
YOUR BIG PROBLEM IS - they will look S**T inside your wheels
then again like dattoman says depends how much you wanna spend. I walked into his shop and $3500 and many hours later i get comments at the lights like
'you sure them brakes are big enough'
'f**K they are big brakes'
'you need to stop in a hurry do ya mate'
definately worth the $$ though.
By the way the wheels look ok what size tyres you using?
I had HZ stubs with commy rotors (i think the 290mm ones) i machined down the OD (about 3mm i think) and everything was spot on. commodore rotors use the same bearing as the torana ones and for some reason there is no problem with the offset when using commy offset wheels.
YOUR BIG PROBLEM IS - they will look S**T inside your wheels
then again like dattoman says depends how much you wanna spend. I walked into his shop and $3500 and many hours later i get comments at the lights like
'you sure them brakes are big enough'
'f**K they are big brakes'
'you need to stop in a hurry do ya mate'
definately worth the $$ though.
By the way the wheels look ok what size tyres you using?
#21
_cal-a-kid_
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Posted 16 October 2006 - 10:56 PM
I'm not to worried how they look at the moment, as long as they work...
How do I get the OD machined? Can you find out exactly how much you had machined off? I have girlock Alloy calipers off a HZ im pretty sure, are these the same calipers you had, as im pretty sure i've got the same as your set up with relation to commo rotor (290mm) and HZ stub. Is there a difference between HQ and HZ stub axels?
Dean
How do I get the OD machined? Can you find out exactly how much you had machined off? I have girlock Alloy calipers off a HZ im pretty sure, are these the same calipers you had, as im pretty sure i've got the same as your set up with relation to commo rotor (290mm) and HZ stub. Is there a difference between HQ and HZ stub axels?
Dean
#22
dattoman
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Posted 16 October 2006 - 11:33 PM
Q and Z stubs are essentially the same
Sounds like a reasonable plan...... using that caliper and disc if its intended to not do too much street use
Speak to Phil..... above..... he has basically the same setup on his car
Sounds like a reasonable plan...... using that caliper and disc if its intended to not do too much street use
Speak to Phil..... above..... he has basically the same setup on his car
#23
_cal-a-kid_
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Posted 17 October 2006 - 11:26 AM
Thanks guys... It sounds like a go-er.
Phil have you got msn? My email addie is [email protected], add me and I'll have a chat to you about it all...
Cheers
Dean
Phil have you got msn? My email addie is [email protected], add me and I'll have a chat to you about it all...
Cheers
Dean
#24
_the gts_
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Posted 18 October 2006 - 03:30 AM
Yes i 'HAD' the same set up including the Girlock aly calipers. I just Measured the OD of a HZ rotor (same as HQ i think) then machined the commodore ones to fit.
From memory the Commodore rotors do bolt on but they rub on the caliper which is why i machined down 2-3 mm.
I also had to make a spacer which fitted between the caliper and stub axle.
Mate i am pretty difficult person to get hold of so send me a PM and when i get back to OZ i will measure up for ya. maybe next friday or saturday
No i dont have mns whatever that is. PM me here is the easiest
From memory the Commodore rotors do bolt on but they rub on the caliper which is why i machined down 2-3 mm.
I also had to make a spacer which fitted between the caliper and stub axle.
Mate i am pretty difficult person to get hold of so send me a PM and when i get back to OZ i will measure up for ya. maybe next friday or saturday
No i dont have mns whatever that is. PM me here is the easiest
#25
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Posted 18 October 2006 - 06:36 PM
VL turbo front disc: 290 MM.
HQ - WB front disc: 279 MM.
HQ - WB front disc: 279 MM.
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