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GAS RESEARCH

Started by _JNR_ATE_ , Sep 23 2006 04:41 PM

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24 replies to this topic

#1 _JNR_ATE_

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Posted 23 September 2006 - 04:41 PM

Hey guys, im waiting for Rapid Flow Gas Research in hoppers crossing to finish my Twin Gas setup, all the under bonnet setup is done, but when ordering the gas tank was told that because so many people are converting there is a shortage of tanks the manufacturers can supply/

He told me some guys are even goin to the wreckers and getting old tanks, re- cirtifying them and fitting em again to keep up with demand.

Anyway, cant wait to see how it goes.

Cheers
JNR_ATE

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#2 _MediuM16A2_

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Posted 23 September 2006 - 09:53 PM

shesh..

what kinda of engine you running? and what GR setup did you choose?

i thinkn about converting one day.

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#3 _73LJWhiteSL_

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 01:16 PM

When i payed the deposit for my gas conversion last year, i waited more than a month for the parts to come in to do the job!

GRA gear is worth the wait mate. It is good as :spoton:

Steve

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#4 orangeLJ

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 05:16 PM

my mum works for a large automotive business here on the central coast and she has been telling us bout how bad the supply is. They have like 100 or so people waiting for gas conversions, but because they are all mede in AUS it takes a while and demand is currently larger then supply.

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#5 _JNR_ATE_

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 09:24 AM

GR twin throttle body, twin carb, twin converter setup, K n N high flow filters and 90 litre tank on my 308 in LH.
Its definately worth the wait, not having another car is the hard part.
It should be ready today, but i cant pick it up till tomorrow now.

Cheers
JNR_ATE

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#6 _Aidan_

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 11:29 AM

Yeah its a major pain the rumour in WA in a one year wait, I have no idea how true that is. I (we) got a spare scuba tank in the shed, picked it up about two years ago for a bargain.. you can have it for 1000bux :tease:

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#7 _dolphinex_

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 12:19 AM

The gas is a great idea if you want economy, JNR_ATE, the only thing is, you can expect to lose about 120 horses as opposed to using high octane unleaded. I have the twin GRA setup on my cobra.

GRA Setup

I had 587 at the wheels with the unleaded, put the GRA on, lost 118, after fine tuning (it was 146 less at first). My car only weighed 986 kilo, (fibreglass, i love it!!!) so i was fine with the loss, as power to weight really made it not THAT much different.

If you have aspirations of a top mounted blower with gas, forget it, cost me about a grand & 3 weeks of mucking around to find out it wont work, unless you dont want to see the road in front of you...

Blower attempt...

anyway, if its just for cruising, id recommend it, you will just need to deal with heat issues if you intend to race it.

the environmentally friendly azz kicker...

GL with it,

Pete

Edited by dolphinex, 26 September 2006 - 12:22 AM.

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#8 _JNR_ATE_

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 10:05 AM

Wow, thats a big drop in HP. To be honest i will probably sell the torry after the Twins get fitted, anyone looking for a GR twin gas setup 308 in LH wait a month or so.

Cheers
JNR_ATE

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#9 _73LJWhiteSL_

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 02:40 PM

Thats a huge drop in power dolphinex. I don't understand how you have lost that much power.

I gained a fair bit from going from PULP - straight gas, however mine is just a stocker 173, and i did go from having a single barrel stromberg, to a 350CFM GRA carb. I have timeslips to show nearly 0.5 second gain on the quater through. It seems strange you have lost so much. What carbs were you running before the GRA stuff?

Steve

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#10 _CHOPPER_

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 04:33 PM

Steve, maybe your Stromberg wasn't tuned properly before hand, which could explain the HP increase when it went to straight gas.

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#11 _devilsadvocate_

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 04:43 PM

I had 587 at the wheels with the unleaded, put the GRA on, lost 118, after fine tuning (it was 146 less at first).

Guys, you need to put this in perspective, this is a serious horsepower motor designed for petrol, the "things" that get the extra power obviously have some differences in a lpg application
Basically any decent lpg system should work better than a basic stromberg and show at least equal power, but if you are converting a new car on fuel injection to lpg expect a slight decrease in performance.

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#12 _Red Dragon_

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 06:23 PM

Well since LPG has a high octane rating of 90.5 (approx 102 RON). The minimum motor octane number set for LPG in Australia. So you can just up the compression to get some of the power back or more. 11:1 shoudn't be askin' for trouble.

Edited by Red Dragon, 26 September 2006 - 06:25 PM.

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#13 Heath

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 06:36 PM

Chopper, that is not necessaily the case; keep in mind that it's like going from a 1bbl Stromberg to a 2bbl 350 Holley, although the fact that the motor would have been running very efficiently with the stromberg (compression, timing etc) would suggest that you are correct...

Devils and Dragon are both right here. That was a performance V8 built for petrol; it won't magically run as efficiently on gas. Although I am kinda surprised you didn't get a bit more power back from the professional tune.

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#14 _73LJWhiteSL_

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 07:46 PM

Steve, maybe your Stromberg wasn't tuned properly before hand, which could explain the HP increase when it went to straight gas.

Chopper I am not tuning expert, but i pretty sure I had the car carby tuned up pretty good. I would expect part of the performance gain come from the larger throat barrel of the GRA compared to the single barrel stromberg. The carb was also rebuild (rekitted and tuned) properly when i had the car converted to manual, and i am pretty sure it has been to the carby shop since.

Just for a comparison the car was still 0.2 faster down the quater with the old stockies on it on LPG than it was with Sprintmasters and good rubber on PULP.

Steve

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#15 _Aidan_

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 07:58 PM

my 308 makes 195hp at rear wheels on straight gas, evan says his made or makes the same as mine but on petrol, his car seems a shit load faster than mine when I took it for a drive. Mine is a trimatic and his in a supra though

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#16 _Red Dragon_

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 09:10 PM

I should add you can also lean out the mixture too! (for more power of course).

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#17 _devilsadvocate_

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 09:49 PM

Well since LPG has a high octane rating of 90.5 (approx 102 RON). The minimum motor octane number set for LPG in Australia. .

You mean the motor octane number MON is 90.5? How does this equate to 102RON? where did you get this from, the ausfuel standard:http://www.scaleplus.law.gov.au/html/instruments/0/33/0/2003122301.htm lists only the MON number.
The RON has to be measured, not inferred from the differences commonly seen with petrol MON and RON numbers.

Anyway, glad to see there is now a standard, my motor was rebuilt for gas ~12 years ago, however, I was talked out of going further than 10.5:1 as there was no standard on the rating of the fuel.

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#18 _dolphinex_

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 12:02 AM

I dont know why the big drop on my car, but it was dyno'd next day, after the conversion, petrol carby was a dominator, possibly the lpg carbs were starving the motor or fuel, cant be too sure.
pump gas is never gauranteed for quality, if you intend racing it, id recommend getting some bottles of lpg, (BBQ style) & using that. Much better quality.

the RON of optimax would equate to a similar output of octane, compared to lpg, i would guess.

tc
peter

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#19 TerrA LX

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 12:08 AM

I should add you can also lean out the mixture too! (for more power of course).

would not leaning out the mix reduce power?

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#20 _CHOPPER_

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 12:11 AM

Too rich or lean will reduce power. Too lean will run hotter and potentially cause valve problems.

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#21 _Red Dragon_

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 06:18 AM

devilsadvocate I got it from here --->http://motormouth.co...etters/0501.htm

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#22 _devilsadvocate_

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 07:32 AM

Thanks for that, whether the motormouth site was accurate or not or just basing their numbers on the petrol differneces for ron and mon dont know.

Accurate info on this is thin on the ground, I did find this site:

http://www.arb.ca.go...ge/rptjun98.htm

which lists the respective mon and ron values of different blends of lpg.

Possibly it can be inferred from this data that the ron will be at least 12 points larger than the mon. Interestingly all the blends have a larger mon than the current aus standard of 90.5.
Based on that it would be safe to design a motor based on a minimum 102-3RON

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#23 _Red Dragon_

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 06:31 PM

Yeah trying to find 'real' data on lpg is a pain. Don't you mean a maximum of 102RON or until any real hard facts to tell its something else for sure.
For motormouth I hope they are right for my sake as I have also been considering the option to switch.

This is for dolphinex.
Is LPG Autogas different to LPG used in a BBQ?
YES. There are two different grades or blends of LPG and they are not interchangeable. LPG Autogas is for automotive use only and will be a mixture of propane and butane. The other blend is propane, which can only be used for decanting into cylinders for barbecues, camping, caravanning and household use.

Edited by Red Dragon, 27 September 2006 - 06:44 PM.

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#24 _Red Dragon_

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 07:21 PM

BP Autogas Specifications
Motor octane number 92 min; Research octane number 100 typical.
Shell is the same.

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#25 _devilsadvocate_

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 08:04 PM

No, minimum is what is intended..........that the fuel will have a rating of at least 90.5 MON or ~102-3 RON, the producers have to achieve at least that.......slightly more is not going to cause any real problems and in most cases will be desirable.