Ok I'm putting an Auto in the Hatch and the only thing i need now is a Stall convertor but i'm not to sure on what size, it's a 308 with the crane hyd 286 cam, the diff ratio is a 3.00 ATM but will be changing that to 3.5 or better, the rear wheels are 15x10 with 265x50x15 not to sure if that's enough info but i'm sure there are some of you that have the same or close to it to give me an idea on what size Stally your using and what you think of it. Now I do realise there is a lot more to take into consideration when getting the right size Stally so i'm just looking for ideas ATM.
The 286 cam starts at 2200rpm so would it be ok to say i might get away with a 2500 Stally? when i rang TCE they said i would need a 3000 or 3500 Stally, now that sounds a bit to much what do you think?
Cheers
Steve
What size Stall Convertor to use????
Started by
_J&S Racing_
, Oct 17 2006 06:39 PM
33 replies to this topic
#2
_timbotorrie_
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Posted 17 October 2006 - 07:32 PM
TCE are the blokes to talk to mate, get them to email you a form to fill out, it should include vehicle weight, engine specs, diff ratio , etc etc
they will make one to suit YOUR car!
they will make one to suit YOUR car!
#3
_STEVO_
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Posted 17 October 2006 - 07:38 PM
are you going to race it and want to run good numbers?
if so go 3500 dont forget they wont stall to that in normal driving
i ran a 4000 in my old como with 4.11 gears and it was a daily driver
If your worried about fuel go smaller but if thats a worry we would be driving 2lt cars
hope that helps
if so go 3500 dont forget they wont stall to that in normal driving
i ran a 4000 in my old como with 4.11 gears and it was a daily driver
If your worried about fuel go smaller but if thats a worry we would be driving 2lt cars
hope that helps
#4
_J&S Racing_
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Posted 17 October 2006 - 07:49 PM
Thanks timbotorrie I will give them another call and ask about the form to fill out.
STEVO the car is mainly used for cruising and a bit of strip so i don't want to go to big, fuel is not the issue it's just a matter of getting the most out of the power range of the cam and not going past it before it really gets used, thanks for your input everything is taken on board.
Steve
STEVO the car is mainly used for cruising and a bit of strip so i don't want to go to big, fuel is not the issue it's just a matter of getting the most out of the power range of the cam and not going past it before it really gets used, thanks for your input everything is taken on board.
Steve
#5
_LHoon_
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Posted 17 October 2006 - 08:17 PM
Even if I had a completely stock 308 (and it wasn't driven daily) then I would choose a 3000rpm converter. It can make the car come alive! Now in your case, you have a mild 308 which will definitely need a hi-stall. So I would go for at least the 3000 stall.
I have had 2500rpm converters in the past, and you can hardly even notice that they are higher than standard. They are not much better than standard, considering that many stock converters stall speed is 2100-2200 rpm.
The only consideration really, is how much time will be spent on the freeway. If the answer to this is quite a bit, then maybe tone down the stall speed a little and settle for a bit of a compromise 2500-2800 stall. Otherwise, go for the 3000 or 3500 stall!!
I have had 2500rpm converters in the past, and you can hardly even notice that they are higher than standard. They are not much better than standard, considering that many stock converters stall speed is 2100-2200 rpm.
The only consideration really, is how much time will be spent on the freeway. If the answer to this is quite a bit, then maybe tone down the stall speed a little and settle for a bit of a compromise 2500-2800 stall. Otherwise, go for the 3000 or 3500 stall!!
#6
_MAWLER_
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Posted 17 October 2006 - 08:28 PM
When dealing with stally's there is a tonne of variables that will influence the right one for your application. I reckon the best thing for you to do is to ring a few experts who know what they are talking about (TCE being one) and go with what they suggest will be your best option. Its up to you whether you want to make adjustments for application (ie fuel consumption or highway driving) but a 3000-3500 will certainly be in the range for what you want IMO.
Peace,
Peace,
#7
_[BOTTLEDUP]_
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Posted 17 October 2006 - 10:07 PM
Ditch those 3.0 gears ASAP, I'd run with a 2800 as an absolute minimum... Preferably a 3000-3200 unit. Built by a reputable firm it would lock up around the 2500 mark on the street anyway.
308s with 286s need more stall than the cam range states, 3500 being the ideal.
308s with 286s need more stall than the cam range states, 3500 being the ideal.
#8
_DocDamage_
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Posted 17 October 2006 - 11:47 PM
Timbo & Liam have given you the same advice as I was given, Stall speed is best matched to both estimated HP and final drive. Thats why the experts ask for all the specs.
#9
Tiny
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Posted 18 October 2006 - 10:17 AM
If i may deviate the thread slightly...
In the coupe i've got a 2200Rpm domintor stall.. The cam is only a baby and is supposed to work from around 2500-6000. With the 3.2 diff ratio and 28" tall tyres i ran a 12.4 crossing the line at around 5500 Rpm.
Changing nothing else ( basically), but going up to a 3.7 diff ratio, how do you think this will affect teh stall speed?
is it likely to change the stall speed, or nothing at all ( other than the car's acceleration).
And i was advised to go a small stall because of the cruising and street driving that the car does.
If i were to go a bigger 3000-3200 stall what would the net effect be on the components? Is it true that any revs under say 3000 on the tach will allow the gearbox to slip creating bulk heat? Or have i been advised incorrectly?
Sorry for the thread steal, but i think its along the same lines and may help to further inform us all! ( especially me! LOL!)
Cheers.
In the coupe i've got a 2200Rpm domintor stall.. The cam is only a baby and is supposed to work from around 2500-6000. With the 3.2 diff ratio and 28" tall tyres i ran a 12.4 crossing the line at around 5500 Rpm.
Changing nothing else ( basically), but going up to a 3.7 diff ratio, how do you think this will affect teh stall speed?
is it likely to change the stall speed, or nothing at all ( other than the car's acceleration).
And i was advised to go a small stall because of the cruising and street driving that the car does.
If i were to go a bigger 3000-3200 stall what would the net effect be on the components? Is it true that any revs under say 3000 on the tach will allow the gearbox to slip creating bulk heat? Or have i been advised incorrectly?
Sorry for the thread steal, but i think its along the same lines and may help to further inform us all! ( especially me! LOL!)
Cheers.
#10
_J&S Racing_
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Posted 18 October 2006 - 04:44 PM
Thanks a lot guy's you have all made good points and i'm begining to think the same as what you have said, i think i'll be much better with at least a 3000 stally but i will also ring around and ask the experts as well.
All is welcome Tiny, it's good to have others ask different questions the more the better as it gives us more info on things we don't know.
Cheers Guy's
Steve
All is welcome Tiny, it's good to have others ask different questions the more the better as it gives us more info on things we don't know.
Cheers Guy's
Steve
#11
_lurkin308_
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Posted 18 October 2006 - 06:23 PM
steve i have had both 3000 and 3500 stall the 3500 is a tce and i have it in now you can run both but when i had the 3000 the cam was advanced to 4degrees now i have got 6degrees and the 3500 it is a lot better and a lot faster too go the 3500 and 6degrees
#12
_STEVO_
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Posted 18 October 2006 - 06:24 PM
the bigger stall will get you off the line alot harder allowing you to reach your top speed faster
which will run a quicker 60 foot and ET
Tiny thats a very good time you ran how much work have you done engine wise
Also what MPH did you cross at
Cheers Stevo
which will run a quicker 60 foot and ET
Tiny thats a very good time you ran how much work have you done engine wise
Also what MPH did you cross at
Cheers Stevo
#13
_J&S Racing_
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Posted 18 October 2006 - 08:24 PM
lurkin308, What cam are you running also what diff ratio?
I think the machanic set my cam at 3 degrees advance. When advancing the cam what do you need to take into consideration? eg valve piston clearance and then what dizzy timming?
I think the machanic set my cam at 3 degrees advance. When advancing the cam what do you need to take into consideration? eg valve piston clearance and then what dizzy timming?
#14
_lurkin308_
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Posted 18 October 2006 - 08:54 PM
crane 286 and 3.9 im not shore about all the timing stuff i just rember that the motor went 12.93@107mph in a street trim vb commodore
#15
_HatchmanSS76_
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Posted 20 October 2006 - 10:54 PM
My old Red motor in the Hatch was only 40thou over with a Crane 286, Head work, 650 Vac Secondary and Crane Electronic Ignition. Turbo 400 trans and 4:11's in the rear. It was running a 3500 stall converter and was running 12.7's down the strip.
As plenty of others have said, some where in the 3000 mark would be good.
I went to a 4500 in the 304 motor. Had that one purpose built for the stats on the engine, trans and diff. Was told after sending in all the info that reason it was that was due to the small cubes of the motor. Told them I was thinking of stroking the motor to 355 later. They advised me to have another one built than and around 3500-3700 would be the go to suit the bigger cubes.
As plenty of others have said, some where in the 3000 mark would be good.
I went to a 4500 in the 304 motor. Had that one purpose built for the stats on the engine, trans and diff. Was told after sending in all the info that reason it was that was due to the small cubes of the motor. Told them I was thinking of stroking the motor to 355 later. They advised me to have another one built than and around 3500-3700 would be the go to suit the bigger cubes.
#16
_V8Hatch_
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Posted 22 October 2006 - 08:52 PM
Thanks guy's again it's interesting what others have found to work. I am ringing up tomorrow to find out what the experts say so i will let you all know.
Now i will have to run an oil cooler, what size will do the job? also i was thinking of plumbing the one cooler line from the auto to the bottom of the radiator then out the other end of the raditor to the new cooler then back to the auto, is this what others do and does it matter which line goes to the radiator first?
Steve
Now i will have to run an oil cooler, what size will do the job? also i was thinking of plumbing the one cooler line from the auto to the bottom of the radiator then out the other end of the raditor to the new cooler then back to the auto, is this what others do and does it matter which line goes to the radiator first?
Steve
#17
Struggler
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Posted 22 October 2006 - 09:33 PM
Tiny, firstly that cam is NOT small. I had a considerably smaller cam in my 350 and I used 4000rpm stall.If i may deviate the thread slightly...
In the coupe i've got a 2200Rpm domintor stall.. The cam is only a baby and is supposed to work from around 2500-6000. With the 3.2 diff ratio and 28" tall tyres i ran a 12.4 crossing the line at around 5500 Rpm.
Changing nothing else ( basically), but going up to a 3.7 diff ratio, how do you think this will affect teh stall speed?
is it likely to change the stall speed, or nothing at all ( other than the car's acceleration).
And i was advised to go a small stall because of the cruising and street driving that the car does.
If i were to go a bigger 3000-3200 stall what would the net effect be on the components? Is it true that any revs under say 3000 on the tach will allow the gearbox to slip creating bulk heat? Or have i been advised incorrectly?
Sorry for the thread steal, but i think its along the same lines and may help to further inform us all! ( especially me! LOL!)
Cheers.
Changing rear end ratio will not affect the stall speed.
I would definately recommend a 3500 odd stall for your beast, the fact that you don't drive it daily means you can get away with a larger stall. Also using numerically higher diff gears makes the higher stall more user friendly.
JMHO
#18
Tiny
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Posted 23 October 2006 - 09:42 AM
Ta Struggler!
Will think more about this!
Will think more about this!
#19
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Posted 23 October 2006 - 01:27 PM
FWIW I have been using these guys for a while......
http://www.accelerat...om.au/index.htm
John Mournas is the guy you should talk to.
http://www.accelerat...om.au/index.htm
John Mournas is the guy you should talk to.
#21
_V8Hatch_
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Posted 24 October 2006 - 06:14 PM
Ok i spoke to the pro's about this and once i had told them all the specs on the engine and drive line they said i would be ok with a 3000 even with the 3.00 diff ratio but if i was looking for some real fun and good quarter mile times to go a 3500 and 3.5 diff ratio.
#22
_timbotorrie_
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Posted 31 October 2006 - 05:48 PM
got my recommendation from TCE today, they recomended a 8 inch 4800 stall for my torrie! no wonder it was bogging down off the line before. should make it launch now!
Edited by timbotorrie, 31 October 2006 - 05:49 PM.
#23
TerrA LX
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Posted 01 November 2006 - 02:00 AM
i went for a 2000 stally and found it not much better than stock, engine size does have an effect on this (stock 308). going a bigger stally will generate more heat and remember that bigger than this and the converter is actually smaller, in diameter, than standard, so the system wont hold as much fluid.
#24
_V8Hatch_
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Posted 01 November 2006 - 08:12 PM
I picked up the stally last Friday it's a 3500, I iwll be fitting a trans cooler as well. It's only a weekender so i will be enjoying it when i can, i'm also going to be changing the diff ratio to suite soon.
#25
_STEVO_
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Posted 01 November 2006 - 08:25 PM
yeah good choice
you will have some fun,it will launch harder and sound alot tuffer
ill be running a 5500 in mine(more race but some street)
you will have some fun,it will launch harder and sound alot tuffer
ill be running a 5500 in mine(more race but some street)
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