Power Steering
#51
Posted 10 May 2006 - 11:37 PM
I am still chipping away at this - have been really busy on other things recently.
Very frustrating as I have lots of parts here, just not enough time but I am pretty keen to finish it. I have done a few hours testing and measuring this week.
M@
#52
Posted 15 June 2006 - 02:46 PM
New stuff is right at the bottom.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/480776/2
I'll try to get some pics up later today.
Anyone have a set of HQ to HZ stubs they want to sell? If not I'm off to the wreckers on Saturday.
M@
#53
Posted 15 June 2006 - 06:16 PM
The range covers the whole suspension travel from bump stop to bump stop so once you have your Torana front end more than 1"lowered - you are getting a little close to the bump stop in bump travel.
The standard camber curve explains why these front ends wear the tires out on the outside edges if you ask me.
M@
#54
Posted 16 June 2006 - 10:35 PM
Thanks Len
#55 _salaszar_
Posted 24 June 2006 - 06:49 PM
#56
Posted 10 July 2006 - 10:22 PM
I have just updated the cardomain with a few more pics (nothing major) - mainly changing my comments on the Cortina rack as I double checked it and it appears I was a bit out on my measurements for rack travel and centreline. The Cortina one look like it could line up and give good bumpsteer figures, it is the ackerman effect of the steering which will be the compromise with this system I now believe.
Axistr, I am with you on most of that stuff and agree but I don't quite follow with this bit - are you talking FWD here?
and check the steering arms in relation the the centre on the drive axle. Check that the drive has no side thrust, if all this is spot on there will be no bump steer
Salazar, my reasoning with trying out the polygraphite fully floating ones are for 2 reasons
1. To see if it stops the squeaking you get with polyurethane
and
2. To see if it makes a diff to handling to have no (or little) resistance in the pivots.
The control arms on my test jig certainly move very freely compared with the ones on my car with the bonded type poly bushes.
I read in a write up on the Ferrari F50 a while ago, they made a big improvement to the handing that they put down to the reduction they managed to achieve in the friction/drag in the suspension bushes so there is a point where it does become relevent.
Holden used rubber in the rear trailing arms and front lower control arms because the bushes need to compress sideways slightly as well as pivot and the rubber allows this to happen (and rubber gives a nice ride). The front lower control arm bushes only compress a tiny bit sideways whereas the rear upper bushes have to squash heaps.
M@
Edited by Toranamat69, 10 July 2006 - 10:24 PM.
#57
Posted 13 July 2006 - 07:49 PM
#58 _Toranamuk_
Posted 14 July 2006 - 12:59 AM
We fitted Cortina power strg rack to the LX limo, the rack was lowered 5mm to try to correct the difference in inner tie rod knuckle length, then i used the late UC steering arms, as they have a lower tie rod height than the LH/X steering arms.
I've also limited the full lock travel to try & stop some of the pushing & "hopping" feel that can develop at low sped turn, plus the wheel base of the car is now 1.5mtrs longer.
Whilst doing some basic geometry checks, all the front ends i checked have toe in on turn on full lock, far from what is ideal.
As an experiment i tried a speedway "street stock" with 1/2" toe out & the car turned in a lot better & felt more controllable whilst in back steer & power applied.
You guys have created more questions now for me, & i am following your reports with a huge amount of interest.
I'll post some photo's soon of the rack position & mounts, what we did to the valve housing, & the engine mount changes.
#59
Posted 14 July 2006 - 09:19 PM
#60 _Toranamuk_
Posted 15 July 2006 - 08:25 PM
When I've re-read your posts I've confused myself a bit more (more questions).
I'm now thinking i should lift the rack back up to the standard torana mount position, & let the tie rods angle down a bit more towards the steering arm.
The limo has a fairly high ride height, with that & the wider knuckle width of the inner joints, I'd planned on keeping the rack a bit lower to try & keep the bump steer to a minimum as it goes it travel.
The front end is reasonably stiffly sprung, & at the moment the tie rods are pointing down hill by approx 5 to 10deg.
How much TOOT can be gained by straightening the steering arms ? I'm using the later UC arms that are slightly longer & drop a bit further down, (the ones that are from the commodore style caliper).
#61
Posted 15 July 2006 - 08:49 PM
#62
Posted 18 July 2006 - 12:16 PM
Just wondering whether a working group get together is possible?
Grant..
#63
Posted 20 July 2006 - 09:25 PM
#64
Posted 21 July 2006 - 01:12 PM
#65
Posted 21 July 2006 - 08:52 PM
Many thanks Len.
#66 _LX_SS_
Posted 27 July 2006 - 08:25 PM
#67
Posted 30 July 2006 - 03:50 PM
My G/F had surgery about a month ago and I have been in carer mode pretty hardcore.
The poor girl still won't be able to walk for another 4 months or so either.
M@
#68 _ben_
Posted 13 August 2006 - 11:46 AM
www.appletonrackandpinion.com
#69
Posted 13 August 2006 - 11:51 AM
#70
Posted 21 August 2006 - 11:01 PM
Keen for any further info - I like the sound of it. I would have tons of Q's for the guy obviously.
I have been chipping away at my setup a bit more- I have managed to get a full 2 days on it last week between jobs - some interresting things starting to surface.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/480776/2
I have revised some of the previous stuff - in the bottom half of the second page.
Sorry if I am taking ages on this for those who are hanging out for my results but I really believe this needs to be done as a whole suspension/power steer upgrade in 1 go, not just the PS.
It is actually adding up to a fair cost too - I try not to think about these things though.
I think my next purchase is going to be a pair of CRS 2" HR drop stubs.
M@
Edited by Toranamat69, 21 August 2006 - 11:03 PM.
#71
Posted 22 August 2006 - 01:26 AM
any pics and info on the type of Applton, specs etc?In the latest performance buildups magazine there is an lj torana which is fitted up with an appleton power steering rack, belongs to steven coad. quite interesting read.
www.appletonrackandpinion.com
#72
Posted 17 September 2006 - 05:21 PM
I have never found a power rack I thought would be suitable for the LC but the 19.25 " long racks shown on the Appleton site look like they would be suitable.
Those remote servo valves are very interresting too. I wonder how easy it would be to fit one of those hydraulic servo's to the Torana rack rather than changing the whole rack over. I like howyou can get diffrent ratio racks and different servos as well.
If you look under the what's new tab, there is a road race power rack which I reckon is a viable contender for an LH/LX front end going by the width of the rack.
GML-31, any update on the pics of the supra stuff?
M@
Edited by Toranamat69, 17 September 2006 - 05:22 PM.
#73 _bollie7_
Posted 09 November 2006 - 08:26 PM
Another vehicle with a front mounted power rack is a current model Toyota Hi-Ace van. I know the last model also had a front mounted rack but never got the chance to measure one.
I've got the work van at home tonight so crawled under and did a quick, rough measurement. Approx 620mm centre to centre of the inner tie rod ends. This was by squeezing the boot around the tie rod end and estimating the approximate centre. Not real accurate I'm afraid but might be of some use. Also took a couple of pics but haven't had a look at them on the pc yet so not sure how good they are. Sing out if you want to have a look at them.
Hate to think what a toyota rack would cost though. You would be pretty lucky to get one from a wreck that wasn't damaged as it would be the first thing to go in a smash bad enough to write off the van. You never know though you might be able to get one from a jap importer.
regards
bollie7
#74 _CHOPPER_
Posted 09 November 2006 - 08:30 PM
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