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Which springs for dedicated LX 308 track car?

Started by _Hazza_ , Apr 11 2007 03:33 PM

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#26 _rorym_

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 10:15 PM

With regard to the suspension setup, its based on information given to me by a chap called Rick Kemp from Toperformance (in melb) This guy has been responsible for suspension setup in a number of racing Torana's, so I thought it was worth going with what he said. He recommended the spring rates and shocks that I run, and it certainly has made a big difference to the way my car handles, which has definately helped my lap times!

The shocks are as follows:

front - koni pt number - 82-5074 (designed for a Pajero!)
rear - koni pt number - 80-2299

Apparently the valving on that particular front shock will suit the spring rate I specified, and to go 1 click off the softest setting. The rear shocks will need to be revalved to go with the heavier rear spring though. I get all my springs made at Industrial Springs here in Adelaide, I just give them the dimensions of the spring (installed height and desired rate) and they make them.

The other thing to take into account is that I run a light front sway bar. Its the Kmac 24mm adjustable front mount type and I run NO rear bar at all. I've tried it with and without, and without suits my driving style the best. The fact that it runs a full spool 3.8 ratio diff also plays a part in how it feels (handling wise) - in racing conditions.

I'm not one to hide what I'm running, as far as I'm concerned if its working and been of benefit to me, then why not share the info..

Somthing else to consider, different ppl like the car to handle different ways, or should I say, feel more comfortable with the car setup a certain way... Some like it to push, others like it more pointy... Really you just have to get out there with a base line setup, if you dont like it, make adjustments ONE AT A TIME, try it out and record the results. THERE IS NO ONE SETUP THAT SUITS EVERYONE!

hope this helps!

cheers,

Sam

Have you found it to be neutral with this setup?,...Pushing in the front on the limit or losing the rear?
R

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#27 Racehatch

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 01:39 AM

Hey Rory,

Okay I just went back through my notes, and I have led you astray on the rear spring rate, it was actually 275lbs - 300lbs.. my mistake, I was a bit tired when i did that post... :blink:

I actually think the stiffness of the rear end does play a big part in the handling dynamics - perhaps more than people realise... What happens is people tend to go too hard on the rear, which affects weight transfer and this leads to lotsa wheel spin coming out of corners, seems to be more noticeable on the hatches too for some reason. Something else that I have found is that running a panhard rod (I have one atm), whilst helping to locate the diff and take sideways load off the trailing arms, does affect the suspension geometry, my preference would be for a watts linkage as it has less of an impact.

I would definately describe the way I've setup my car as more of an understeerer (pushes), but as I said the harder you drive it, the better it tips in to the corner, it just feels more stable and predictable that way - I really dont like it to be too twitchy , funny thing is some ppl like it real pointy (oversteer)! I must stress at this point that what I've described is to suit the crusty little tyres that I run and you will find that running slicks will be a whole new thing, but it certainly could be used as somewhere to start.

Put a rear bar on it and you'll notice it sharpens things up, and as you're running slicks, you might find it works better with one... and you'll have a heap more grip than me with those big wide sticky tyres... As a matter of fact, the extra grip you will get from them will put HEAPS more load on you suspension, shocks and spring rate will be even more crutial, especially as you start to come to terms with it and start pushing more... and then there's the oil surge.... it goes on and on...

I enjoy watching in car footage of people, it amazes me how much driving styles can vary, some ppl reef the wheel and slam the car around the track, others feed it in and glide around, both styles can be quick, I'm definately more of a feeder than a reefer..... haha

If I can find the spare cash, I'd love to bolt a set of those group c style slicks on and just see what sort of time I can get out of my car compared to running the baby 225/50/16's. Sounds like you'll be there first, so you'll have to let us know what you find...

cheers,

Sam

Edited by 350LH, 17 April 2007 - 01:42 AM.

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#28 _rorym_

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 10:00 AM

Thanks Sam..Yeah thought the rears were a bit hard! I am looking at 260lb and was worried I was way out.
R

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#29 _82911_

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 11:20 AM

Rory...
Radial slick or crossply? Sams first recommendation might not be that far out at all!!!!
Sam...
*said with best RASTA voice*......hey what's wrong with a bit of "reefer" ay maaaaan!!!

Cheers Greg..

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#30 _rorym_

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 01:09 PM

Looking at Dunlop Radials Greg...Yeah thats what I thought too...Stuckey recommended about 4 dgree neg as a starting point. I can dial it back to more neutral with a bigger front bar..lots of playing to be done.
R

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#31 _rorym_

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 03:22 PM

Want a better mouse trap??...I have just confirmed that Bedford front truck springs are the exact same wind and size as L34 lowered springs on both the Kings and Dobinson catalogues and are 1100 lb rated std.!!! Yeehah! No special windings needed!
R

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#32 A9X

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 03:33 PM

Which model Bedford Rory.

Bedford springs,
Pajero Shockers,

Maybe we should bring back rally cross.

Welby

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#33 355LX

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 03:36 PM

I have the bedford springs that you just referred to Rory. They fit in no worries, but I'm pissed because I was told by a local specialist here they were equivilant to std ride height, but they are certainly not. You can clearly see the difference in spring coil thickness.

Dave

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#34 _rorym_

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 03:40 PM

The Dobinson ones are 19mm to the LH 18mm They are rated at 1158 lbs...have not checked their height yet. I would expect them to be same length as LH ones ?

Who did you get yours off 355LX?...70-85 CF Bedford van..Fits right in Harrys time he was playing.
R

Edited by rorym, 17 April 2007 - 03:41 PM.

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#35 355LX

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 03:47 PM

Double post, oops!!

Edited by 355LX, 17 April 2007 - 03:49 PM.

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#36 355LX

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 03:48 PM

Rory the ones I purchased were made by Kings Springs. They fit fine, just too low for what I'm after :cry:

Kings part number KBFS 01 according to my reciept. I purchased them through a local suspension place here in Perth.

Dave

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#37 _rorym_

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 03:54 PM

Just spoke to Kings again..he confirms that they are the numbers run by the guys with LH in club events with the Pajero Koni fitted. Installed height 254mm with there stock LH V8 one at 265mm installed height. So what was wrong with yours? Was it that much lower?
R

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#38 _rorym_

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 03:59 PM

Dobinson is 255mm for Bedford and 265mm for A9X.
R

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#39 355LX

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 02:58 PM

There was nothing wrong with the spring itself, it was the info I was given with the spring. Was expecting a 1000LB std height spring, which it is not.

Is that pajero koni number for a koni red series or yellow series shock?

Dave

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#40 _rorym_

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 03:01 PM

No its about 40mm lower than standard. What do you want for them? Red Number But its an extra heavy off road shock...that why Sam only had to use 2 clicks from soft...on the std Torana ones they need to be 9/10 clicks.... rock hard.
R

http://www.koni.com/...cial/afram.html

Edited by rorym, 18 April 2007 - 03:04 PM.

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#41 355LX

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 05:11 PM

Going to hang onto them Rory, like having things for a rainy day, but you shouldnt have any drama's getting some from Kings.

Thanks for the info on the shocks.

Dave

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#42 A9X

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 05:44 PM

Get in line Rory, i live closer than you do.

Welby

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#43 _rorym_

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 06:09 PM

OK..I will go Dobinsons..they are 1158lbs. All this info is invaluable..Good work guys...Welby...I have 8 weeks.. :cry:

R

Edited by rorym, 18 April 2007 - 06:10 PM.

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#44 arrimar

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 07:32 PM

so all up you're looking at how much ,for the spring and shock combo R.?

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#45 _rorym_

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 09:52 PM

Springs..$160-180..Shocks..Not sure as my brother has a spares biz and I get trade so guessing at $360? Anyone know for sure?
R

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#46 _rorym_

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 08:43 PM

If you are getting your springs made up, measure your installed height first, this will ensure that you get the ride height right.

The easiest way to do this is, firstly to jack the car up and put it on stands with the front and rear suspension unweighted. Remove the springs and reassemble the suspension. Put the wheel on and place a jack under the ball joint (or diff centre) and jack it up until the wheel is sitting at the desired position relative to the gaurd. You can then remove the wheel, and use a tape to measure the distance from the top of the spring seat to the recess in the lower control arm.This will be your installed height. Give this measurement to the spring maker along with the rate that you want.

Sam whats your installed front spring height? Those Bedford ones are 255mm.

R

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#47 _brett_32i_

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Posted 29 April 2007 - 08:46 PM

what are the 16" control tyres worth?? any good?

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#48 Racehatch

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Posted 29 April 2007 - 08:59 PM

what are the 16" control tyres worth?? any good?

The tyre is a Yokohama A048R, the next race meeting in May will be my first run with them, so I'll report back after and let everyone know how I found them... I'm changing from a 225/60/15, so I'm expecting these tyres to be quite different, with any luck I should be able to pick up a bit of time...Price wise, we (IPRA competitors) get them for a discount, but I believe retail is around $450 per tyre (225/50/16)

Rory, I havnt forgotton about the installed height for the front springs, just cant find the notes I had, so I'll measure them again next time I get a moment.

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#49 _Hazza_

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Posted 30 April 2007 - 04:26 PM

Can I just start by saying a sincere thanks to 350LH and others for the invaluable information for my question.

Unreal. I "forgot" to come back and look at this thread since I created it as I have been tied down with other things. But I am now almost ready to start playing with the car again. This info is priceless.

I will probably have more questions after I digest all this info.

Thanks again.

PS - 350LH, what kind of times do you do around Wakefield (also approx horsepower)?

PPS - The problem with the rear scrubbing definately seems to be a spring problem more than a guard or wheel combo problem, as it looks like the rear springs have sagged alot. See below. Wheels are 16x8.

Posted Image

Edited by Hazza, 30 April 2007 - 04:30 PM.

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#50 Racehatch

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Posted 30 April 2007 - 05:17 PM

Hi Hazza,

Must have surprised you the amount of info when you checkup up on your post...haha

I live in Adelaide, and as yet havnt been to Wakefield Park, although I would like to in the future... The car runs a 350 sbc, about 480HP.

What spec is your car, and what class do you plan on running in?

cheers,

Sam