Steering uni
#1 _J&S Racing_
Posted 23 January 2006 - 08:08 PM
I had a look and the shaft on the steering rack looks to long in relation to the location of the cotter pin and the end of the shaft.
#2 _ChiaLX_
Posted 23 January 2006 - 08:42 PM
#3 _Herne_
Posted 23 January 2006 - 08:56 PM
I am thinking maybe Struggler has also done this and if so he would be the guy to take advice from.
Cheers
Herne
#4 _J&S Racing_
Posted 23 January 2006 - 09:07 PM
#5 _Herne_
Posted 23 January 2006 - 09:39 PM
Oh one more thing, on the downside you feel every vibration....This would put some off. For me it's a very fair trade.
Cheers
Herne
Edited by Herne, 23 January 2006 - 09:42 PM.
#6 _J&S Racing_
Posted 23 January 2006 - 09:48 PM
I know exactly what you mean, thats just what i'm looking for.
Cheers Steve.
#7
Posted 23 January 2006 - 10:43 PM
M@
#8 _devilsadvocate_
Posted 24 January 2006 - 01:07 AM
Perhaps get an opinion/ruling from a mechanical/engineering certifier(whatever you call them) Whether someone has managed to slip one through a rwc inspection or not with it done being irrelevant(in my opinion)
#9 _Herne_
Posted 24 January 2006 - 08:23 AM
My car is fully engineeered and passed.
Cheers
Herne
#10 _devilsadvocate_
Posted 24 January 2006 - 09:50 AM
Knows all? well I am certain on a lot of things, but not on the this topic, (i Know my limitations - unlike others......I dont have data to hand on the specific safety factors were built into the original unijoints and shafts and whether that margin would be compromised to standards below what the original engineers deemed acceptable by the removal of the shock absorbing flexible coupling) thats why I suggested a professional ruling/opinion from a qualified/certified engineer.here we go, mr advocate who knows all about all....
My car is fully engineeered and passed.
Cheers
Herne
You have stated that your car was assessed/certified/passed by a an engineer for this mod and it was stated to be okay?
That's all you needed to say.
Edited by devilsadvocate, 24 January 2006 - 09:51 AM.
#11 _Yella SLuR_
Posted 24 January 2006 - 12:03 PM
#12
Posted 24 January 2006 - 12:19 PM
I am thinking maybe Struggler has also done this and if so he would be the guy to take advice from.
Why thank you. Yes, I have done it a couple of times. My method is to put the intermediate shaft next to the shaft coming from the rack so you can mark off how much needs to be trimmed. As TM69 said it is about 10mm. I wrap the rack shaft in a wet rag and cut the excess with a grinder and cutting disc. Tidy it up with a sanding disc so it looks good and reassemble. There is no need to refile the flat. The only time I have needed to do this is when making a new intermediate shaft from 9/16" bright rod (LC/J V8 and LX/UC BBC). As it is a steering component then excessive heat is not a great idea, that is why I wrap the shaft in a wet rag.
Definately results in increased road feel ( not necc. better for grandmothers but suited me fine) and a distinct lack of freeplay in the steering. I was quite surprised in the play the canvas coupling creates when parking etc.
Incidentally, in my BBC UC I originally fitted a nolathane coupling at the direction of the engineer. It lasted less than a month before giving up to the heat and failing (luckily whilst at parking speeds when loads were greatest). Even in 253/308 powered cars they are close to the pipes. I could NOT recommend them.
Not an RWC issue, if anything the steel flexible joint would be 10 times stronger than the flexible rubber joint.
This is just the issue. When a LH/X etc is involved in a major front end impact the canvas is designed to tear so the shaft can overlap, avoiding driver kebab type incidents. Yes, the column still collapses but this only gives you a few inches of extra space. When the canvas tears you get and extra foot or so. I never looked at the legality of it but I was aware of the theory.
Consider everything before changing anything.
Edited by Struggler, 24 January 2006 - 12:26 PM.
#13 _devilsadvocate_
Posted 24 January 2006 - 01:05 PM
I was thinking of it more from a point of view of twisting impact. ie car hitting curb/pot hole and (driving naturally resisting the possible turning of the steering wheel sending the car in another direction) as putting a perhaps too large initial force of impact through all components of the steering, the flexible coupling would allow a softening in the size of force experienced right through the steering components, from wheel/stub axle/tie rod/rack/shafts/unijoints
#14 _Yella SLuR_
Posted 24 January 2006 - 01:48 PM
#15 _Yella SLuR_
Posted 24 January 2006 - 01:58 PM
Must have a look at the outer column I have at home and see exactly how they collapse, I know there's a good foot of netted area. The centre column as a slip joint, but yes, don't look like there's much movement there, unless the collar breaks and the two ends are chamfered.
You got me thinking now, happy to kick it around. Must say never thought about it, I like flexibility.
Realised the other day changing the link that there is also another steel uni up under the brake booster before it re-enters the fire wall, no-man's land on a V8 Torrie. That begs the question can you run a steel rod from uni to uni. If so, I'd at least talk to an engineer re safety so you can size it to fail, or induce it to brake in a certain fashionin an accident, i.e. the cross member being pushed back towards the passenger cabin.
Yes agree with the Nylothane burning, I get about six months out of them, I just do the coupling when I do an oil filter. Have you seen the LH knuckle protectors? They seem to be different to the LX ones that are welded on, LH ones are bolted on to the cross member. I'm trying to look into getting one of these.
Never thought a coupling discussion could be so interesting.
Edited by Yella SLuR, 24 January 2006 - 02:00 PM.
#16 _J&S Racing_
Posted 24 January 2006 - 04:18 PM
#17 _Yella SLuR_
Posted 24 January 2006 - 05:17 PM
If you want, happy to cut you a piece and send it too you. Way more material than I need, but yeah, prolly not a good look.
#18 _J&S Racing_
Posted 24 January 2006 - 05:30 PM
#19 _Flamenco_
Posted 24 January 2006 - 06:34 PM
#20
Posted 24 January 2006 - 06:57 PM
The guys with LC V8's all use 2 of these uni's as well. We need someone to do some destructive testing to be really sure where the weak point is but my money is definately on the cotter pins.
I have done about 15,000 k's on mine since changing over including flogging it around wakefield park and (spinning out bigtime over the curb) so I don't think the strength is an issue.
I fail to see how this would put more force on anything 'below' where the original rag joint coupling went - above maybe but not below.
Interrestingly if you read those new proposed laws they want to bring in - there is nothing stating you have to use a rag joint in your steering. They obviusly don;t see this as an issue from a safety point of view in both the current and future proposed laws.
If anyone wants an LX type steering coupling heat shield with HPC coating on it - it is all theirs - it is lying around pissing me off and I would like to see it go to a good home. The coating is in good nick but I have tapped it in, in 2 spots for a bit of extractor clearance.
M@
#21 _devilsadvocate_
Posted 24 January 2006 - 09:02 PM
It doesnt really matter if someone is pulling hard on the steering wheel or if the road wheel is pushing hard on the steering components, if the motion of the wheel is resisted at the other end then you put force on all the components in the steering chain. If that force is sharp and sudden, like hitting a curb, and the person on the end of the wheel holds on to it with a vice like grip(to stop it veering off in another direction) then that large force is transmitted along every component in the steering chain. The size of this force is very large if the impulse is applied quickly, the coupling gives some time for this transfer and reduces the force needed to oppose the intial shock or impulse, the force on all components in the chain is reduced.I fail to see how this would put more force on anything 'below' where the original rag joint coupling went - above maybe but not below.
Perhaps think of it this way, if you wanted to break the gears in the steering rack, you could get a few people to hit the road wheel with a sledge hammer, while the shaft coming out of the rack is bolted solid to the subframe so it couldnt move. Perhaps the rack would break, or tie rod or shaft. If the shaft was attached to the flexible coupling and then bolted to the subframe, there would be movement(shock absorption)-making it harder to break anything.
Edited by devilsadvocate, 24 January 2006 - 09:03 PM.
#22 _Yella SLuR_
Posted 24 January 2006 - 10:12 PM
I discovered this by trying to fit the one that Makka bought up with him, but couldn't see what it fixed to. I pulled up the bonnet on the race hack and took the cover off that one, and found that the LH didn't have the welded bottom bit. I then looked at the LH manual and saw that it is different. My LH cross member also has the two holes for the screws, so it must of had one at one stage.
I will find one, as it shouldn't be too hard to find, seems most people rip them off, and I can see why, would make changing the flexible link difficult.
#23 _Flamenco_
Posted 24 January 2006 - 10:55 PM
#24 _Yella SLuR_
Posted 24 January 2006 - 11:29 PM
#25 _Flamenco_
Posted 24 January 2006 - 11:34 PM
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