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Webers On Again Off Again

Started by _dandapalm_ , Feb 27 2008 11:53 AM

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58 replies to this topic

#1 _dandapalm_

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 11:53 AM

I can now say,I am world authority on ripping off a 600 DP and manifold and refitting webers which has been done now about 4 times since an allged "guru" made a mess of my last set. This time, the webers have come back from Carbtech Brisbane who I can highly recommend, the quality of linkages and general work is outstanding. Just thought I should share anyhow, and mess with my photobucket stuff for the first time.

Cheers

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#2 _CraigA_

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 02:17 PM

I can feel the pain of this..........

Just replaced my manifold gasket, but my Weber's are on separate Warneford manifolds instead of the single piece one it looks like your using (a Redline one maybe??). Fitting mine is like trying to tie an octopus' shoelaces with your hands covered in butter. Add to that the very small area available for manifold washers and its a nightmare.

Set up looks great though. Congrats.

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#3 _dandapalm_

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 02:25 PM

Thanks, I can tell you it is a Warnerford 3 piece manifold..............................

I can tell you mate, we are a special breed , a club that to gain entry into you have to endure pain . And I modded to go onto a blue 12 port mate........I need my head read hey...

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#4 _dandapalm_

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 02:30 PM

Here is another pic mate.
Posted Image

Edited by dandapalm, 27 February 2008 - 02:33 PM.

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#5 _dandapalm_

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 02:35 PM

Sorry I was also going to add this pic....car colour is all screwed up because it has massive white light reflecting from next door neighbours house. It is Mitsubishi EVO yellow .....$%^in bright .

Cheers

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#6 _CraigA_

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 02:50 PM

.I need my head read hey...

Well worth the effort though, looks a treat. And will make you smile every time you put your foot down

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#7 _WYLDLC 6_

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 02:55 PM

Definately feel your pain mate. I've had mine off and on atleast 20 times in the last 6 months as to get gearbox out I need to remove carbies/headers.
I think whoever designed these manifolds needs there head read.
Zero room for washers and crap extractor gaskets these days which never seem to seal properly.
If it wasn't for the added power and great noise I think I would have sold em and put a bloody holley on.
I just love removing 3 layers of skin on each knuckle just to do a gasket change.

Chris

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#8 _dandapalm_

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 03:03 PM

Mate, I had a major fab and sheet metal work shop and despite 10's of thousands of dollars of tools, found a cheap very thin socket in a bargain bin with a flex head that is just as close to perfect as I can get........but the washer situation is a major problem and I have customized each manifolds washer sets with a 4" grinder and they only ever fit one way hey.....

But you are so right....if it wasnt for the sound/power etc, it just wouldnt be a proposition..........This car is almsot ready to go and then my forsaken GTR will be in the spotlight.....yes I have a problem.. 1 X xu1 and this GTr and a 3rd GTR up for the resto..... I need mental help

Cheers though mate, we are all partners in pain with this damn manifold type!!!!

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#9 _WYLDLC 6_

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 03:32 PM

Mate get youself some ARP bolts with a 3/8" head and with a inch of thread, I got onto these and my own custom washers (done with grinder aswell) and they work o.k.
I had to grind my 3/8 spanner head a bit thinner to fit the tight spaces but a lot easier than other ways. Atleast I can get some leverage and do them up a bit easier.
The bolts set me back about $35 for 12 but thats the best $35 I've spent.

Chris

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#10 _dandapalm_

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 03:37 PM

Mate , that is a great idea.....I hadnt even thought of that, I saw the name warnerford somewhere the other day and they said he had obvious holden manifold experience etc..........well we should all get a free hit if we find him, they must seriously have been dreaming when the manifolds were designed for fitment.

Guys, i actually tried the redline one and despite the carbs not being set up perfectly, it didnt have the same punch as the old 3 piece.

Carbtech as well told me that the 3 piece ones are the dyno guys favourites when looking for max power .

Cheers

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#11 _CraigA_

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 03:46 PM

Its good to know others have the same issues.

I'm currently trying the metal sided extractor gaskets sourced from 'Straightline Performance' on eGay. As I put the Webers back on I kept glancing sideways at the original CD Strombergs thinking how much easier they would be. And then I remembered the sound of the air rushing into the Weber's trumpets.

The CD's are still on the shelf. :spoton:

Oh, and I use a socket with a flexible shaft to do the bolts up. And have modified a combination of flat washers and standard Holden header washers, each one unique to its location.

Edited by CraigA, 27 February 2008 - 03:50 PM.

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#12 _WYLDLC 6_

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 03:47 PM

So there is a big power difference in manifolds. I still use the redline one and whilst my carbs are set I feel nearly to perfection you can always have more power.
Whats the going rate fore a 3 piece I'd be interested to know.
By the way, I'd like first hit.

Chris.

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#13 _CraigA_

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 03:49 PM

They come up on eGay every now and then, around the $200.00 - $300.00 dollar mark.

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#14 _WYLDLC 6_

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 03:52 PM

Thats cheaper than I thought. Are those gaskets any good as I'm now just using a permatec one from autobarn and heaps of goo. Looks messy atm but seems to still be working.

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#15 _CraigA_

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 03:56 PM

My gasket has only been fitted for a couple of weeks, but I've been to my local vehicle test area (the industrial park) and give it a big go and all seems OK. Even put it under heaps of load in 4th gear/30mph up a hill and all is still working fine.

I like your car lots Chris, was it at Toranafest 2007?

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#16 _dandapalm_

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 03:59 PM

Yes the sound of that weber induction roar is a real issue and I kinda start drooling when I hit the throttle that touch too soon and just get them on the edge of that big woosh . I have to ask......mine are very well set up and we are all probably experts in our own way at tuning, but i do have to just feather the throttle the slightest bit even when warm, just ever so slightly before flattening. It seems that if I put the boot in from say dead idle, I kinda get a fraction of hesitation for a 1/1000th of a second . But this is only minor and it then roars. Not a flat spot , just a dip. Most people would never even notice it , it is that slight but the manifold is a reason as i mention below.Carbtech etc have all said that 3.08 diff is reason and that short of reducing idle jet or increasing accel pump action it is not worth worrying about . Engine has a serious solid cam and usual stuff, HQ pistons, blue crank , valve reliefs in top of bore and mega head work, Elec ignition etc, so I do know what I am doing ( mostly lol)

I would never swap them, but between fellow weber owners, I just wondered if you know what I am talking about. READ ABOVE.........it is ever so slight.

BUT..........when I had the redline on it never had this minute dip , but was not as throaty either with redline...anyway more things to consider .

Guys this is just a query, and not sure what a warnerford manifold is worth???

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#17 _WYLDLC 6_

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 03:59 PM

Thanks mate its nice to hear that. Yes it was there in 07 and I'll be making the 12 hour drive again for 08, can't wait.

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#18 _WYLDLC 6_

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 04:07 PM

Dan my car has the same issue, I've got a very large cam, headwork etc and my tuner said it is common with them. He said it could stay in his shop for hours in pieces and he may sort it but how much do you want to spend.
I increased my timing a touch and the car now idle's at around 1100rpm and it has improved.
The guys who tuned them are very good and spend 5-6 months a year in the states running a classic race team with Austin Healeys with straight 6's and triple webers.
They believe without the finest of fine tuning it is a problem that comes with the carbs.

Edited by WYLDLC 6, 27 February 2008 - 04:08 PM.

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#19 _CraigA_

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 04:08 PM

Mine don't have this hesitation, on the throttle and off they go. Maybe mine are set up a little rich though, it tends to foul the plugs a little if I do the stop/start traffic thing.

Everything else is OK, starts easy, idles good, driveability when cold is great, and good under power.

I bought the engine and carbies off eGay as a complete unit so don't know jet/air corrector/choke sizes but I do know the guy I bought them off had them professionaly set up.

Chris I am looking to come to QLD for the QTCC event in June/July. Might see you there!!

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#20 _WYLDLC 6_

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 04:10 PM

Nah I don't think so Craig im in the south east of victoria and 2 big trips is a bit much on the back pocket. Maybe you should head to Toranafest in Sep you'd have a ball.

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#21 _dandapalm_

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 04:14 PM

Craig, CORRECT, if I richen mine they do not have any hesitation at all, but the plug situ is a disaster and I kinda have to go up a side street and give it full roar if I am in traffic for a while.

You are dead right about on the pedal and away.......and the most common slight hesitation is from a lean idle circuit, so thanks for confirming this mate.

And as I said.....I wouldnt swap them for any other set up, this was just a very minor point .

Cheers mate

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#22 _WYLDLC 6_

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 04:19 PM

That maybe the difference then as my tuner tries to get them as lean as possible (but not to lean ) for max power, rich them up and it may solve it then.
I think each tuner has there own way and thats what makes it hard to find a good one.
With the plugs it's good to hear i'm not the only one with this problem, but I don't ever have to really clear them like that.

Edited by WYLDLC 6, 27 February 2008 - 04:21 PM.

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#23 _CraigA_

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 04:23 PM

Sorry Chris, thought you came down from QLD, not up from Victoria.

My cam is of an unknown grind, but the car still makes reasonable power and idles with a nice roll at around 850/875 rpm @ 14 degrees initial timing. Possibly increasing the idle will keep the plugs a little drier?

After a good run I usually remove the plugs to have a look, and the centre electrode is nice and clean with a black dusting around the outer ring of the plug body.

I have been thinking about buying a Gunson ColorTune so I can see exactly whats happening at idle, and lean it off a little in the idle circuit.

Edited by CraigA, 27 February 2008 - 04:24 PM.

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#24 _dandapalm_

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 04:25 PM

WYLD, we are a long way away mate, but that is exactly what the dyno guys said, it is tight rope to walk . I can simply richen them up and get rid of this and have no hesitation( when I say hesitation...it is ever so slight and within a moment is sucking the doors off the car next door) or keep them on the verge of lean and get max power when I just squeeze on that first 250rpm above idle.

My guy is just an old weber hard head and says that as you said, it needs the finest of fine tuning.

As I said dont get me wrong.............. they haul serious #SS, but I am very glad to hear from you about your set up.

Cheers mate.

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#25 _WYLDLC 6_

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 04:34 PM

Yeah I know what you mean, that initial "flat" spot takes a bit of getting used to especially when you give it a huge boot full with nothing and then it goes. Scared the sh!t out of me when it lit up whilst not expecting it.
As I said I find mine is quite good now with the extra idle speed and is very responsive. Only problem is if you get a crappy batch of fuel it will ping.