is the L34 the most collectable holden? (roadvehicle)
#1 _LXXXIV_
Posted 15 January 2009 - 04:13 AM
keeping emotions out of it.
Do you guys think this is the case? or can you think of another example that would tick all the boxes.
Limited production = rare (not a mass production vehicle)
remaining original examples = super rare
actual production race pedigree equalling success (limited modification for race)
manufacturer's modifications = specifically designed for one thing
required a special licence to be purchased
seriously what do you think?
#2
Posted 15 January 2009 - 06:23 AM
#3 _Pallbag_
Posted 15 January 2009 - 06:39 AM
Edited by Pallbag, 15 January 2009 - 06:41 AM.
#4 _ronaldoredsox_
Posted 15 January 2009 - 09:10 AM
#5
Posted 15 January 2009 - 09:27 AM
Most Influential - HK GTS 327.
Most Collectable - toss up between A9X hatch and HK GTS327.
Most Successful as a race car - HT GTS350 manual in Bathurst 1969 guise. Probably then almost (if not) equalled by L34 and A9X.
You'd have to throw the XA RPO83 in there as a successful race car too alongside the L34. I know it was lucky to win in both 1973 and 1974 (Toranas should have won both years except for some super bad luck) but it was a damn good car. The Phase III was a great road car but only ever beat a 186 powered LC at Bathurst 1971.
Where the L34 has it over the others is the special licence. But it also wasn't a "race" car as you bought it. You needed a race upgrade kit (induction, cam etc). The HK GTS327, HT GTS350, 1971 and 1972 Bathurst spec XU-1's were raced as they were bought, and won that way in 1968, 69 and 72.
In the end if the HDT L34 hadn't been black flagged in 1974 for a loose sump bolt (or HDT had worked it out quickly) and the car had won Bathurst 1974 then maybe it would have been regarded as the pinnacle winning Bathurst all 3 years it entered (in a row)?
Again my opinions only, and others could easily agrgue differently. And I wouldn't knock back an original L34! I'd only have an A9X hatch or 1973 spec Bathurst XU-1 over one because they have 2 doors and because they were rarer, but I'd have an L34 over an A9X 4 door anyday.
#6 _chrome yella_
Posted 15 January 2009 - 11:25 AM
#7
Posted 15 January 2009 - 12:14 PM
#8 _LXXXIV_
Posted 15 January 2009 - 12:18 PM
but if I can just add, although you have brought up inividual features of individual vehicles,
If you were to have a check sheet would all of the examples mentioned be able to tick all factors.
i.e monaro and xu1 build numbers = not so rear
#9
Posted 15 January 2009 - 12:51 PM
#10
Posted 15 January 2009 - 01:24 PM
Anyone know how many E49s' were built?
#11
Posted 15 January 2009 - 01:39 PM
Problem is those tick boxes are your criteria; I know you said to leave emotions out of it but that's near impossible with classic cars like these and everyone has a different opinion. I like the hatches tooI agree with the before statements,
but if I can just add, although you have brought up inividual features of individual vehicles,
If you were to have a check sheet would all of the examples mentioned be able to tick all factors.
i.e monaro and xu1 build numbers = not so rear
#12
Posted 15 January 2009 - 02:33 PM
as a owner of a l34, i would have to agree with yel327, personally there is no way i would swap for a a9x 4dr, but a a9x hatch, hk327, ht350,rpo83 coupe, maybe. as for rare, e49 charger, a9x hatch, 73 xu1, rpo83, l34, as for numbers left who knows?
Hmm. I'll remember that one day... When my Warwick yellow GTS327 is complete, i'll probably be looking to offload my Picardy red HK GTS327. I'm only keeping it as a template so I can get the yellow car right, and because it's basically 95% correct (needs a full restore though). The yellow car won't have stock mechanicals but I want it to be stock in body, trim, nuts, bolts etc.
#13 _LXXXIV_
Posted 15 January 2009 - 03:40 PM
Problem is those tick boxes are your criteria; I know you said to leave emotions out of it but that's near impossible with classic cars like these and everyone has a different opinion. I like the hatches too
OK fair enough,
although I thought the criteria that I presented was what made a australain muscle car desirable.
if I am incorrect, can you give an non-emotive example of a criteria for a collectable murscle car?
then eqate it to another example versus an L34.
interesting to see what comes out of that.
#14
Posted 15 January 2009 - 03:51 PM
#15
Posted 15 January 2009 - 05:17 PM
Just like the LH SLR 5000 never pulls the dollars of the LX SLR 5000. Either way I always judge a car on its own merrits rather than the badge.
....And why is that do you think? I mean they were the first of the model, looked better etc etc. But then that's the case with the LC's and LJ's as well isn't it? The LJ's being the later model and more desirable?
#16 _Pallbag_
Posted 15 January 2009 - 05:53 PM
Limited production = rare (not a mass production vehicle) - 3
remaining original examples = super rare - 3 or less, 3 most likely
actual production race pedigree equalling success (limited modification for race) - 100% success, one race one win (I think) plus a second.
manufacturer's modifications = specifically designed for one thing - should be fairly close
required a special licence to be purchased - CAMS lic (if it counts) to race one.
Possibly because they arent road registerable may not fit your criteria tho.
Phase 4 Falcon stats - (I'm guessing these coz I dont know exact details, prob dont about the above car also, but it sounds good LOL)
Limited production = rare (not a mass production vehicle) - 4?
remaining original examples = super rare - 1? Saw one on the GT History on TV.
actual production race pedigree equalling success (limited modification for race) - even rarer coz they didnt race them ??
manufacturer's modifications = specifically designed for one thing - see above
required a special licence to be purchased - dunno.
Again, criteria can be like statistics, read out of them what you want to know or meets the needs at the time. Not trying to rundown your criteria at all ... My cars picked out I think meet your criteria but you may not think so ?!?!?!?!
Provokes some thought tho.
#17 _LXXXIV_
Posted 15 January 2009 - 06:10 PM
I like it.
Good play on stats, I am asking a legit question,
putting out a thought, I'm could be wrong in my assumption.
i own a L34, but appreciate many other, and agknowledge there are faster, or better looking, or etc etc.
#18
Posted 15 January 2009 - 06:26 PM
....And why is that do you think? I mean they were the first of the model, looked better etc etc. But then that's the case with the LC's and LJ's as well isn't it? The LJ's being the later model and more desirable?
I agree they look better I have one. I think the LJ's and LX's were the updated models so for years people tried to convert there LC's into LJ's and LH's into LX's. I think that times have changed and more people are keeping the original character of the cars. The LH in SL and SLR configuration is a very pretty car with all of the stainless steel trims. likewise, I love the grills on the LC's. I have a few LX's so feel qualified to comment on the LH.
#19
Posted 15 January 2009 - 07:46 PM
You're not incorrect, but the criteria is different for different people and most are emotive. I guess return on investment in pure $ terms is unbiased but we wouldn't be enthusiasts if we were that detached. I guess my opinion is that beauty is in the eye of the beholder...if I am incorrect, can you give an non-emotive example of a criteria for a collectable murscle car?
#20 _CraigA_
Posted 15 January 2009 - 08:22 PM
Anyone know how many E49s' were built?
21 big tank E49's were made. Rare as rocking horse poo and an amazing car. Smooth and very powerful.
No Bathurst wins though but still very rare and desirable.
This is my mates car, just repaired and painted at my brother shop and fully restored. A very good looking car.
http://www.my105.com...=11100&latest=1
Edited by CraigA, 15 January 2009 - 08:24 PM.
#21
Posted 15 January 2009 - 08:29 PM
if I am incorrect, can you give an non-emotive example of a criteria for a collectable murscle car?
Have a read of the AMC ID handbook. They give a pretty good try at defining an Aussie Muscle Car. I think any of them (by their definition) is collectable.
To me they are (Holdens only quoted and pre 1980):
HK GTS327
HT GTS327
LC XU1 in Bathurst Spec
LJ XU1 in 1972 and 1973 Bathurst spec
LH L34
LX A9X
#22 _Bomber Watson_
Posted 15 January 2009 - 09:13 PM
#23
Posted 15 January 2009 - 10:29 PM
With the phase 4's you have a similar story, 3 GT's prepared to race and one production car. I saw the production car out for a Sunday drive last year, I couldn't believe my eyes, looked like brand new.
On the L34, I'd have to say it's probably the rare collectable production car, certainly in the Holden stable. Only 263 built and a lot were actually raced, so finding a good one these days is hard to do. Most have been modified / upgraded due to weak diffs and gearboxes, and the HO kit was an expensive dealer option, so not many got it. When you consider the cars were around the 6 Grand mark, the kit off the shelf was $1500 and then you had to get it fitted on top of that, well, you can see why not many bothered.
Some have said they wouldn't swap their L34 for an A9X sedan, and for collectability if the car is in original condition, I can understand that, however an A9X is an overall better car, but if we bought them for that reason, we'd all drive the latest VE HSV, or something alike. A hatch is rarer, but to drive they are no different. I've got both in the shed at the moment and I personally like the look of a hatch better, plus of course 100 vs 305, you'll always get better dollars, that and the fact Holden promoted the hatch on the track.
I think if you looked outside Holden, the E49 Chargers would be the rare collectable car as there were very few built, and they had options like the big tank making them rarer again.
Why this was started in brakes and wheels, I have no idea but you will note it's been moved.
#24
Posted 15 January 2009 - 10:48 PM
#25 _jacko27_
Posted 15 January 2009 - 10:50 PM
1 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users