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LX Torana with a 202 - mods

Started by _mello92_ , Mar 23 2009 06:42 PM

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#1 _mello92_

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 06:42 PM

Hi everyone. This is my first post, so here goes. I have just got my P's (I have a decent amount of money saved) and have bought myself a LX Torana sedan which has been used a show car to drive (its got a full bodykit inc. scoop and droptank, 14" centerlines). As it currently sits, it has a red 202 (ZL prefix on engine) with a 350 Holley, HEI, Rollmaster straight cut gears, mild cam, Yella Terra head, chrome everywhere and those cast iron headers with twin outlets. I have plans to keep this car in as good condition as possible and to use it as a show car aswell. Here are the questions I have:
1) Will it benefit from a set of extractors and a free flowing exhaust (2.25" or 2.5")? Cost roughly?
2) Would it be possible to fit 18" rims under it? What mods would be needed, if any?
3) How much will a full bare metal resto cost including rust proofing roughly?
4) Front brakes: I'm thinking of going a 290mm kit from Hoppers, are they worth the $1400?
5) Not directly related, but is it legal to dump the exhaust at the diff in QLD? I've read opposing stories on this and seen cars that have, just want to clarify if anyone knows.

I have also thought up a wild combo that one day I hope to build. Should I just save up now and build this? I don't want to go a V8 for some reason, I like the 6...
- Blue/black block + .030", blue/black crank and rods
- ACL race series rebuild kit with flat top pistons
- Roller cam like the Tighe 731, or solid like the Tighe 764R
- Triple 45DCOE Webers with 40mm chokes
- Jzed head with Weber manifolds (obviously)
- Custom extractors and exhaust
- 5 speed alloy case Supra 'box

I know this is costly (I don't plan to build it yet), but it would be something very different in a street car and should be powerful enough too...300hp+ maybe...

If you have any information, thoughts or ideas regarding anything here, they would be much appreciated. I am in North Queensland if that helps with anything. Many thanks in advance.

Regards,

Carmelo

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#2 _NZ Toranaman_

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 04:53 AM

The cast exhaust is good enough for a mild 6 as you wouldn't gain anything noticably with flows.

The dream engine sounds like a full race spec engine or you could just do something like mine and include a decent street cam, mine is a F14 which are ground for 3000-7000rpm.

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#3 yel327

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 05:19 AM

Firstly check it's a pre June 76 LX or you won't be able to make those carby mods (even the 350 Holley may not pass ADR27A). If it was me I'd leave the engine as it is for now and spend money on brakes and suspension. Then later on you could come back and fit a V8?

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#4 _mello92_

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 07:43 AM

Thanks for the advice guys.
NZ Toranaman, who makes your cam? Yes I know that the Jzed heads are only intended for racing but I, call me stupid, want to put one in a street car - I think there is only one street car in WA that has one, thats what I've read anyway.

yel327, the Torana has passed NSW rego (I bought it from NSW) many times in its current state, so I'm assuming that all is OK legally. Compliance plate says its a 12/76, so thats not good. If you know, what does ADR27A actually imply? Is there any way I can build a really hot 6 and drop it in or won't it be legal at all? I know what you mean about fitting a V8, my dads thinking the same, but I want to build a really hot 6, there's just something about them I like.

Regards,

Carmelo

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#5 _Drag lc_

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 08:23 AM

Carmelo,
go the 6 mate every body has v8's!hehe
thanks hayden

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#6 _mello92_

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 12:58 PM

Thanks Hayden
Yeah a really good 6 is rare as mate, thats part of the reason why I want to build one.
Regards,

Carmelo

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#7 yel327

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 04:31 PM

yel327, the Torana has passed NSW rego (I bought it from NSW) many times in its current state, so I'm assuming that all is OK legally. Compliance plate says its a 12/76, so thats not good. If you know, what does ADR27A actually imply? Is there any way I can build a really hot 6 and drop it in or won't it be legal at all? I know what you mean about fitting a V8, my dads thinking the same, but I want to build a really hot 6, there's just something about them I like.

Regards,

Carmelo

ADR27A is the anti-pollution equipment fitted. In a 12/76 it's all basically external stuff, but I doubt very much a triple carbed Holden 6 could be made to legally pass ADR27A. It may have passed NSW rego as it is now, but if you ever got a proper inspection done by the RTA it would probably not pass. ADR27A involves mainly control of the spark advance (by lots of vacuum switches and other such junk), EGR, sealing of the carby idle screws and other such lovely stuff. There is also the carbon canister which isn't part of ADR27A but it is still required. You can make it all comply but it is still restrictive. That's why I reckon it's best to build a V8 that does comply with ADR27A. Two good high output examples are VK Group 3 and Group A spec engines and any of the VN onwards performance V8's, but you can easily do it with a red 308. As said above, a Holden 6 can be made to comply with ADR27A but without forced induction (again ADR27A hassles) I doubt you'd see 300hp. You can still build up a good performance 6cyl and get it to comply, just not 300hp (well not as "easy" as a pre ADR27A car anyway), maybe 190hp might be a better goal. Remember the L34 variant of the 308 was basically removed due to ADR27A coming and people will tell you how horrible the ADR27A engines were compared to their predecessors. Hopefully that sort of explains it all.

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#8 _mello92_

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 06:20 PM

ADR27A is the anti-pollution equipment fitted. In a 12/76 it's all basically external stuff, but I doubt very much a triple carbed Holden 6 could be made to legally pass ADR27A. It may have passed NSW rego as it is now, but if you ever got a proper inspection done by the RTA it would probably not pass. ADR27A involves mainly control of the spark advance (by lots of vacuum switches and other such junk), EGR, sealing of the carby idle screws and other such lovely stuff. There is also the carbon canister which isn't part of ADR27A but it is still required. You can make it all comply but it is still restrictive. That's why I reckon it's best to build a V8 that does comply with ADR27A. Two good high output examples are VK Group 3 and Group A spec engines and any of the VN onwards performance V8's, but you can easily do it with a red 308. As said above, a Holden 6 can be made to comply with ADR27A but without forced induction (again ADR27A hassles) I doubt you'd see 300hp. You can still build up a good performance 6cyl and get it to comply, just not 300hp (well not as "easy" as a pre ADR27A car anyway), maybe 190hp might be a better goal. Remember the L34 variant of the 308 was basically removed due to ADR27A coming and people will tell you how horrible the ADR27A engines were compared to their predecessors. Hopefully that sort of explains it all.

Thanks for that yel327. Your explanation was clear and definately helped. Do you have any ideas as to who I should be talking to to see if my plans are OK? It's not that I don't trust you, I basically want to ask what I can and can't do.

Despite ADR27A, I'm still mad keen on using a Jzed head and triples to get to 300hp. Maybe the only way that will happen is if I leave it deregistered and put that money to something else, though whats the point of having such an awesome car and not being able to drive it anywhere? I might even sell this LX and get a pre June 76 LX or keep my current one and buy another, if funds permit... Thanks for the help again everyone.

Regards,

Carmelo

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#9 yel327

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 07:14 PM

Probably an RTA listed Automotive Engineer might be able to help you. Mullen Automotive Engineering in Newcastle might be a good place to start. Dr Terry is another very experienced Holden man that might give you good guidance. Plus there is plenty of very experienced blokes here that could help. In the end most people who have high output engines in late LX Toranas would probably admit that with even minor scrutiny their cars wouldn't comply with ADR27A eg a Holley on a otherwise stock 308 could easily run foul of an emissions test. Or other ADR's for that matter (tyre width, seats etc). Most don't care and will never get found out. My opinion is though that you are much more likely to get away with a Holley, Edelbrock Performer and extractors on a stock looking and smooth idling LX sedan than you are with triple carbs on a flared LX with an angry idle.

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#10 _186 torana_

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 07:43 PM

woo hoo go the 202 sounds like a good car mate :spoton:

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#11 _mumstaxi_

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 08:09 PM

............... First thing you need to do is post some pic's

Small amount of info on exhaust mods here.....

http://www.transport...r_vehicles2.pdf

I think the exhaust also has to pass the "rear most" opening window, and of course meet noise,polution & hight restrictions.

I thought P platers are not allowed to drive a V8 for ages?

Also bear in mind, if you make a noisey "beast" to drive around, you may attract the wrong sort of attention.

MT

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#12 _mello92_

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 09:20 PM

Probably an RTA listed Automotive Engineer might be able to help you. Mullen Automotive Engineering in Newcastle might be a good place to start. Dr Terry is another very experienced Holden man that might give you good guidance. Plus there is plenty of very experienced blokes here that could help. In the end most people who have high output engines in late LX Toranas would probably admit that with even minor scrutiny their cars wouldn't comply with ADR27A eg a Holley on a otherwise stock 308 could easily run foul of an emissions test. Or other ADR's for that matter (tyre width, seats etc). Most don't care and will never get found out. My opinion is though that you are much more likely to get away with a Holley, Edelbrock Performer and extractors on a stock looking and smooth idling LX sedan than you are with triple carbs on a flared LX with an angry idle.

Thanks again yel327, you certainly know your stuff. Yeah Ive read some of Dr Terry's stuff not only here but on other sites, and he definately knows his stuff - this has probably been said before but he should write a book or 10. I'd buy it anyday.
I know what you mean about some blokes never getting caught out, though some do. A mate of my dads has a SLR5000, and he was pulled over by the cops years ago because it was too loud. He fought and fought and took them to court and after about 4-5 years he WON! I dont know how he got out of it, but he did. You sound exactly the same as my dad with that last comment; I realise that what ever I do to this car will attract the cops. Thanks again mate.
Regards,

Carmelo

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#13 _mello92_

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 09:35 PM

............... First thing you need to do is post some pic's

Small amount of info on exhaust mods here.....

http://www.transport...r_vehicles2.pdf

I think the exhaust also has to pass the "rear most" opening window, and of course meet noise,polution & hight restrictions.

I thought P platers are not allowed to drive a V8 for ages?

Also bear in mind, if you make a noisey "beast" to drive around, you may attract the wrong sort of attention.

MT

Thanks MT, that pdf helped, I think I recognise the tyre section from a few years ago when I was looking at putting 18"s on my brothers VS(didn't happen) - its exactly the same I think.
Yeah you are right, on P's we are not allowed:
1. more than 200kw (268hp)
2. 8 or more cylinders
3. turbos or supercharged engines except diesel
4. modified engine requiring approval under Transport Operations Regulation 1999
5. rotary more than 1146cc

Yeah I realise that whatever I do, a red and black LX with flares, scoop, spoiler and Centerline mags will always attract the cops.
Pics will be up in due course, Im busy with school at the moment so dont expect anything soon, I'll make sure I do it someday but.
Regards,

Carmelo

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#14 _studricho_

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 10:41 PM

With the cast iron twin header pipes verses the extractor debate. I was reading an article about a guy that was running a hot six in a mini dragster car.

He tried all different brands of extractors and eventually went back to the twin cast iron headers cause it ran better. It was a very interesting story and maybe some one can back it up or disprove it?

Anyway welcome to the wonderful world of the mighty Torana.

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#15 _bon_scott_

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 10:54 PM

mello92, depending one where you live (i'm in a country town with maybe 1-2 cops out on friday/saturday night) you might be alright with doing mods to it. I've got a hottish 202 in a vh commodore with a loud 2.5" exhaust and have only been pulled over once on friday night at 2am and that was before it had any mods. It also doesn't have anything like the air pump (head and engine from a vk) or any of the vacuum or temp switches (they broke and its f*cking hard to find replacements), but it does have the egr at least visible and the carbon canister in the bay. As long as you have these visible bits I think you'd be alright if stopped for a check, as personally I've never seen or heard of a roadside emissions test. Not to say it doesn't happen though or that it never will, but sometimes you just have to take a gamble on how likely it is you will get done for anything.

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#16 _NZ Toranaman_

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 04:53 AM

The "F14" cam is available in Aus from camshaft manufacturers who make it to suit your car.
Street Hemi 265's also benefit from this cam profile as well

Kelfords here in Christchurch are a high tech shop who supplies many cars and also supplies NZ Motorsport with cams for our V8 class cars to keep them similar in power.

Yea I would love a jzed on mine but will never afford one. Most of the racers with jzeds run 55mm sideways carbs I think so 45s should make the emissions easier to achieve or you could do what I have done and make it so I can change to a 450 4-barrel in 30 minutes for economy

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#17 _mello92_

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 07:40 AM

With the cast iron twin header pipes verses the extractor debate. I was reading an article about a guy that was running a hot six in a mini dragster car.

He tried all different brands of extractors and eventually went back to the twin cast iron headers cause it ran better. It was a very interesting story and maybe some one can back it up or disprove it?

Anyway welcome to the wonderful world of the mighty Torana.

Thanks for that studricho. I assume he was running 2 pipes straight from the headers, yes?

Regards,

Carmelo

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#18 _mello92_

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 07:46 AM

mello92, depending one where you live (i'm in a country town with maybe 1-2 cops out on friday/saturday night) you might be alright with doing mods to it. I've got a hottish 202 in a vh commodore with a loud 2.5" exhaust and have only been pulled over once on friday night at 2am and that was before it had any mods. It also doesn't have anything like the air pump (head and engine from a vk) or any of the vacuum or temp switches (they broke and its f*cking hard to find replacements), but it does have the egr at least visible and the carbon canister in the bay. As long as you have these visible bits I think you'd be alright if stopped for a check, as personally I've never seen or heard of a roadside emissions test. Not to say it doesn't happen though or that it never will, but sometimes you just have to take a gamble on how likely it is you will get done for anything.

Thanks for that bon_scott, though a fully kitted out Torana will attract more cops than a vh commodore. There's one bike cop in my area who loves to hide behind trees or fences to catch people speeding, but he the worst of the lot. Toranas are a rare sight where I am, so there every chance I'll be pulled over sooner or later.
Regards,

Carmelo

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#19 _mello92_

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 07:51 AM

The "F14" cam is available in Aus from camshaft manufacturers who make it to suit your car.
Street Hemi 265's also benefit from this cam profile as well

Kelfords here in Christchurch are a high tech shop who supplies many cars and also supplies NZ Motorsport with cams for our V8 class cars to keep them similar in power.

Yea I would love a jzed on mine but will never afford one. Most of the racers with jzeds run 55mm sideways carbs I think so 45s should make the emissions easier to achieve or you could do what I have done and make it so I can change to a 450 4-barrel in 30 minutes for economy

Thanks NZ Toranaman. The thing is, if I go a Jzed head, the only manifold to suit it are webers or mechanical injection, he doesn't make a 4 barrel manifold. Its a great idea no doubt, but I'd imagine that it would have been fairly hard to get power with the triples and economy with the 4 barrel. That would have taken some time to tune I rekon. Thanks for sharing the idea though, its another possibility.
Regards,

Carmelo

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#20 _LX 76_

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 07:22 PM

G'day mate,

Good to hear of another young fella, P - Plater with an LX =)
Sad ur from QLD (But)

I like the sound of your plans, and cant wait to see some piccys of yours.
Im finishin up ma last year of school, and doing a schoolbased apprenticeship.. its hard to find time.
One thing i can say mate.. is that these beasts chew thru the cash (and time) very quickly.
Dont burn urself out.
And like what the other blokes say.. workon suspension/brakes first. It improves a lot of things.

Heres a bit about mine if your interested:
Thought you may find it interesting to see a car similar to yours.

Worked 202 red motor
Aussie 4 speed box
Yella terra head
Roller rockers
3/4 race cam
350 holley
Elec dizzy
Chromed engine bay
extractors
2 1/2" sportsytem
Lowered,
Rear stablizing bars
Dragway rims.
SLR Dash/Console/S/Wheel
Pionner Soundsytem
Blue Neons

minus the body kit.. our cars sound very similar and so do our plans.
Heres the link to my thread if you are interested:
http://www.gmh-toran...showtopic=34266

You might find it interesting, and may pick up a few things.

As to the fitting of a 2 1/2" inch exhast system..?
Its good mate.. I love mine. And it sounds nuts. But it makes it really hard.
I had to have mine re-bent several times to fit snugly under the car.. there just isnt enough room for it. I had drama's with it rubbing against the petrol tank (which in the end destroyed it) and now i have the problem of my muffler being only several inches off the ground.. making it a target for every speedbump and curb. The other thing to consider, is the noise. I had a warning on mine the other day.. i believe, in S.A.. the loudest exhaust you are allowed to have on a pre 81' car is 96 db. Unsure of what qld's regs are on that..
Its hard not be a target of the men in blue.. with a torri. Drive it quitely where possible.

I am also looking at adding tripple webbers.. and a 5 sp supra box =)

As for the rims.. i have been talking to another gmh member about it.. he has 17"s on his.. and has put an enourmous amount into getting them. There seems to be a lot of mods for them.. The cost up's quickly.
The only real downfall he alerted me to was the fact that the ride turns to crap... feel every bump and speedhumps are a nightmare.

Hope this was of some help
Welcome to GMH-Torana.
I'm still fairly new to this too.. but you will find much usefull information on the forums and many people that will help and give you invaluable advice.

All the best with ya beast =)
Cheers,
-Westie

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#21 FastEHHolden

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 07:57 PM

Don't use a 3/4 race cam.....nobody ever won doing 75% of the laps....and anyway on a red 6 a 3/4 race cam only has 9 lobes on it.

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#22 _LX 76_

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 08:06 PM

Don't use a 3/4 race cam.....nobody ever won doing 75% of the laps....and anyway on a red 6 a 3/4 race cam only has 9 lobes on it.

MM.. I like ma 3/4.. its very border line though.. too lumpy to not be a pig of a thing in traffic.. But as its not a full race cam.. not full performance.. But i love it =)

I drive mine fairly regularly these days though..in a rural area.. fairly happy with it.
Guess everyone has their own preferences.. Thats half the fun =)

Cheers,
-Westie

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#23 _mello92_

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 08:45 PM

MM.. I like ma 3/4.. its very border line though.. too lumpy to not be a pig of a thing in traffic.. But as its not a full race cam.. not full performance.. But i love it =)

I drive mine fairly regularly these days though..in a rural area.. fairly happy with it.
Guess everyone has their own preferences.. Thats half the fun =)

Cheers,
-Westie

Hey Westie, thanks for sharing mate, like I've said before, every little bit helps. Thanks also for the link to your thread, it was a very good read, plus your Torrie looks awesome in black. Your looks very similar to mine under the bonnet. One question, whats the specs on your cam, who made it and what model is it? Thanks.
I was planning to at least rebuild the front end as its all worn and the discs are 12.9mm average, way under spec. Nolathane bushes plus tie rods, ball joints etc. and a 290mm kit from Hoppers I rekon. This means I have to buy 15" rims to clear the brakes but thats OK, Convo Pros I rekon 6" front, 8.5" rear. I was going to put the 18" rims on after I did the brakes, save buying 15"rims then 18"s later. I would really love to put 18"s on it as it would stand out even more, but the 15" rims do more for the stance of the Toranas.
As for the noise, a six cylinder is tested at 3200rpm and I think it has to be 96dB or under.
Thanks very much mate for everything you put into that post, I really appreciated it.
Cheers for the welcome aswell.
Regards,

Carmelo

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#24 _mello92_

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 11:14 PM

Bump.
Hasn't anyone got any ideas/thoughts, I could really use them.

Regards,

Carmelo

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#25 _mello92_

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Posted 19 April 2009 - 09:57 PM

Allright, picture time!

First, at Ballina where I picked up the car.
Posted Image

- Yeah thats me.

By the time we arrived home in Ayr, the Torana was filthy. So my 2 brothers and I decided to give it a wash. - I'm in the blue t-shirt
Posted Image

NB - The rims on at the time were 7" allround. I have a set of 8" wide rims for the rear, but they scrub really bad (there are cuts in the tread) when someone is in the back, it makes the Torana look so much tougher though. We had three blokes in the car and the boot chokas (a.k.a. very full), but it didn't miss a beat even though it travelled 1500km. If anyone cares, fuel economy was calculated to be 12.5lts/100km. Gotta be happy with that!

Hope this works!

Hope you like them!

Cheers.