Fuel Injection On A 186
#1 _kenno_
Posted 20 March 2006 - 11:37 AM
I was looking to get something that would go a bit harder and not compramise my economy too much!
I was speaking to a mate and he was saying that if i put a blue yella terra head on there instead of my red one that it would be done. Is it true that you cant with the red head?
How hard would it be to setup fuel injection and can anyone give me any idea of how much it would cost to convert it and the power and economy difference.
Thanks
#2 _CHOPPER_
Posted 20 March 2006 - 07:42 PM
#3
Posted 20 March 2006 - 08:08 PM
how hard are you going? Put a 202 in it, that will helpI was looking to get something that would go a bit harder and not compramise my economy too much!
#4 _draglc_
Posted 20 March 2006 - 09:01 PM
A1
#5 _CHOPPER_
Posted 20 March 2006 - 09:21 PM
#6
Posted 20 March 2006 - 09:33 PM
Crikey, thats a bold post$2200 for Weber style manifold and injectors. You then need a brain ( obviously excludes females ) and get it tuned. It adds up quickly for new stuff.
#7 _CHOPPER_
Posted 20 March 2006 - 09:39 PM
#8 _Hotrodder_
Posted 20 March 2006 - 11:55 PM
use a throttle body injection unit from a late 80s chev. They are a 2 barrell setup with the injectors in the side. Should get one for around $60-80.
Bolt it with a suitable adapter plate straight onto the holley manifold.
Use an 808 computer - around $20-30 (AC Delco ECU from VN-VP, camira, daewoo, pulsar etc - the last 3 digits of the part number end in 808) and have it reprogrammed for your engine using Kalmaker software - around $300 but not always nessecary as it will learn all by itself what the engine requires, you'll just need to take it easy for the first 1000ks or so til it learns everything.
The sensors can be picked up from a wrecking yard for around $100-150.
Make sure you get the wiring with the sensors etc.
Allup cost well under $1000, running and on the road.
Thats assuming you can do the wiring etc yourself.
For the critics Ive done it, and about to do it again, this time on a blown 308, also for under $1000.
One of the best books on this subject is called "Electronic Engine Management Reference manual" by Choco Munday.
Avail here http://www.graffitipub.com.au/graffiti'sbooks.html
While youre there take a look around, you may well find a whole lot of other books of interest too. Like the Essential Holden V8 reference manual.
#9 _Baronvonrort_
Posted 21 March 2006 - 01:05 AM
If i had to do a 186/202 there are only 2 ways that i would consider.
1.
Pick up a manifold from a VK efi 202 second hand and bolt that to a 12 port head preferably alloy from YT.
This manifold will give heaps more bottom end, about 70ft/lb more torque than the holley manifold at around 3300rpm and about 15hp more at 5500rpm.
The injection manifolds allow much better airflow and thats where the majority of the gains come from over the standard/holley type manifolds.
This manifold has the injectors placed near the inlet valve and squirt fuel almost directly onto the inlet valve so it will get better economy as you are not wetting the manifold walls with fuel.
2.
Triple weber style injection which will cost considerably more and will give much better peak power readings mostly from allowing far more air into the motor.
The injectors are placed further away from the intake valve which is common on race type setups for better atomisation of the fuel.
This also gives you the option of making your own variable length ram tubes,so you can have longer for lower rpm and shorter for higher rpms which can be controlled electronically from a Haltech ecu.
The ECU that i would choose would be Motec if cost is no problem and Haltech if you are on a tighter budget,Autronic is another good one.They require a laptop to program and i prefer these ECU for their many options.
Most of the Delco ecu's are batch fire,up to the VS? which means all the injectors are fired at the same time.
I prefer sequential injection where each injector is fired in relation to the intake valve opening and this also has individual cylinder trim so you can lean/richen an individual cylinder if required to get every cylinder burning to optimum.
You can also run direct fire ignition which means you can piss the points dizzy off and throw your dwell meter away and run 1 coil per plug with fully programable ignition timing with correction tables for air and coolant temp.The gains from ignition mapping are spectacular for drivability.It also has individual trim for advance/retard on all cylinders.
The Haltech has other options like triggering NOS if certain parameters are met like minimum throttle position and load,engine temp,between what rpm ranges and also how many degrees to retard timing when on NOS.There are many other programmable options with haltech and it really is not that much more difficult to wire up than a good stereo and it has its own diagnostics and data logging.
This will be my last post in this forum....too much BS and cheapskate attitudes!
#10
Posted 21 March 2006 - 11:33 AM
Personally i'm using a 12 port head, VK manifold VN V6 throttle body and sensors & Chev V6 Direct Fire Ignition with a delco 808 running the show
#11
Posted 21 March 2006 - 02:31 PM
#12
Posted 21 March 2006 - 03:09 PM
#14 _Hotrodder_
Posted 23 March 2006 - 03:50 PM
What you posted is very true, but for someone on a limited budget its out of the question, and what better way to learn all about EFI than a true DYI setup.This will be my last post in this forum....too much BS and cheapskate attitudes!
As for the "cheapskate attitude" comment, that could only come from someone who can afford what they want, and I dont fall into that category so Ive learned to use what I can afford and dont mind passing the info onto others that are in the same situation.
If youre going to race the car and have the fun coupons avail I would also recommend the same as you have, but for a daily driver why spend all the $$ for little advantage on the street.
Of course if you want to go the whole hog put in the MOTEC digital datalogging dash with telemetry. Now THAT would be nice.
#15
Posted 24 March 2006 - 04:56 PM
Had a 2 barrel holley pro-jection set up.
according to the instructions it will flow 670cfm at 1.5"manifold vacuum.
Bolted straight to my four barrel inlet manifold.
Controlled two throttle body injectors with a fuel controller that was made by MSD
Hooked up to a chev HEI dizzy.
HAd a few hiccups setting it up and tuning(Too tight to put it on a dyno)
But it was on my daily driver and with tuning it went a shite load better than 465
Holley that was on there.
Could even smoke out the street with black fuel smoke if i wanted.
It was mostly tuned for economy though and went well
Damo
#16 _kenno_
Posted 03 April 2006 - 06:42 PM
#17
Posted 03 April 2006 - 08:24 PM
#18
Posted 03 April 2006 - 11:07 PM
If you want look here.
http://www.fastlane....bay-eh-limo.jpg
#19 _kenno_
Posted 03 April 2006 - 11:16 PM
#20
Posted 03 April 2006 - 11:36 PM
Wife, 3 kids & 100k mortgage.This will be my last post in this forum....too much BS and cheapskate attitudes!
On your way take your silver spoon with you!
I and i'm sure a lot of people are in the same boat.
Cheaper alternatives may be the only way someone can afford to go.
Info from members giving cheaper alternatives is a welcome thing for me.
It will also give what is wanted, better performance with economy.
#21 _JBird_
Posted 04 April 2006 - 12:55 AM
What kind of wiring would be involed, what kind of tradesman would be able to do it?
#22 _Sammy_
Posted 04 April 2006 - 12:28 PM
http://www.oldholden...rsion/index.php
once you've read through it let us know if you have anymore questions
this should cover head changes, wiring, and fitting ...
#23 _kenno_
Posted 06 April 2006 - 02:10 PM
Cheers
#24 _Sammy_
Posted 11 April 2006 - 09:02 AM
#25 _Keithy's_UC_
Posted 11 April 2006 - 10:28 AM
Lets not rule out the 350 Holley so soon - i'm running one on my motor (179HP bored to 186), and im making more power with it than people who have worked fuel injected 202's (101.3rwkW max @ 5800rpm)... And im sure that the upgrade to a 465 Holley would give more power yet again! And when i decide to fit the triple SU's, well... I rekon i'd see a decent gain! The real downside to carbys are mentioned above... 1. Fuel usage is not as good as fuel injected motor... 2. Slightly rougher idle (but ya cant go past it for lumpy idle - ugh ugh ugh grunt grunt grunt)!! 3. They require more attention
Its a personal choice - and i'm not taking the cake from anyone who has fuel injection or wants fuel injection, but i believe that a good dyno tune and a well built motor with a nice carby on top is the greatest combination for a holden six cylinder.
A great lumpy holden six gets just as many looks as a V8 holden! I love it!!
Keith
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