_lxclone_
Posted 23 December 2010 - 03:21 PM
I liked the ratio spread for a street car, it has a good first (2.64 )not two long and great space between 2nd and 3rd (1.75 -1.51). Very close to depress ratios.
_Liam_
Posted 23 December 2010 - 04:42 PM
_nemo355v8_
Posted 25 December 2010 - 01:52 PM
theres some interesting info here...
buget has to be under control as like most of us we want the best but ...how much $$$$$
the t5.... this was in Commodore and fords ...behind 6cy? most of what you are talking about i am having to research sorry if i can have a input what modle or year should i look for with the t5??
i had to start some where with this... i have no problem altering the floors as i have to replace them any way.
i come back into this car building after a 30 year break developing a family...)
at 52 theres much to learn the project was to have started 2 years ago but thing when a bit off track ..but all good now.
i have 2 hatchbacks a lx and a uc my original plan was the uc lx convertion as i wanted to custmise every thing about it but then the lx came up
except for the floors the car is rust free...after thinking about it for a year or so i wounder weather i should continue with the uc convertion rather than the lx as the lx would make a great restoration project for a enthusiast who want the original deal.... where i would possably be changing somethings aout the lx.. i know can hear now ...i will have the hatch if you dont want it ...not made up my mind yet..
many thanks for the input
tom
had another quote for richmond super t10
Hi Tom,
T 10 new is $3399 and shifter is $399, you will also need to change your
Bell housing $550. Freight is Adelaide $50
Kind Regards,
Grant Munday
GMP Racing Products Pty Ltd.
20b Clifford Street
Huntingdale, VIC 3166
AUSTRALIA
_nemo355v8_
Posted 25 December 2010 - 01:55 PM
The most Ive payed for a ford 6cyl T5 is $300 LOLI remember seeing a VS V8 5 speed box for sale somewhere for $1500.
Theres your T5, most standard T5's will be able to run 400HP pretty comfortably.
_ls1lj_
Posted 26 December 2010 - 02:34 AM
_lxclone_
Posted 26 December 2010 - 09:07 PM
Agree with Nemo's comment. You should be able to buy a registered VR/VS commodore with a T5 in it for 1000-1500 bucks, remove the box and the back callipers and backing plates for a brake conversion. Then sell the rest of the car to the wreckers or use the interior and other bits for your build. At least you can take the car for a few laps round the block, give it some stick and see if it's still tight. Other option is something like Pickles damaged car auctions.
More info on the tremec website fot T5's, TKO and T56
http://www.ttcautomo...roducts/T-5.asp
IMO bang in a cheap T5 or if you never intend to sell the car just pull out your credit card and go for a T56 brand new 3k + parts. the parts you will need will be similar to your first quote but can be sourced alot cheaper. Everything besides the box can be brought cheap second hand. I think i saw some of the high spec Monaro W427 new boxes for 3.5k somewhere recently. That way you can upgrade your engine down the track if you wish without issue. You will just need to cut the trans tunnel out of a VX model and up commodore and weld in place of your original trans tunnel. You will also have to send the box to Mal Wood or similar and have them reconfigure the shifter position forward more. If you go down this path you will need some advice on weather a gen 3 LS1 (cheaper box from VT-mid VZ) or the Gen4 LS2/LS3/L98 M10 model gearbox from Late Vz-VE is more suitable as they are different.
You may have to change your diff ratio depending on box selection. Also i don't think you had an allowance for a new tailshaft on your list as little bits and pieces add up in a build.
Good luck.
Posted 26 December 2010 - 09:50 PM
All World Class boxes have reverse gear synchro and the only difference in strength is whatever difference the different ratios makesIf you decide to go with a T5 the best fit into a torana is a ford 6 cyl EA 1988 right throu to EL 1999, from 1993 on they made the box slightly stronger and added a sychro on reverse gear also the ratios were changed to a slightly taller 1st gear and closer ratios.
_nemo355v8_
Posted 27 December 2010 - 06:52 PM
All World Class boxes have reverse gear synchro and the only difference in strength is whatever difference the different ratios makes
If you decide to go with a T5 the best fit into a torana is a ford 6 cyl EA 1988 right throu to EL 1999, from 1993 on they made the box slightly stronger and added a sychro on reverse gear also the ratios were changed to a slightly taller 1st gear and closer ratios.
Posted 27 December 2010 - 08:12 PM
_lxclone_
Posted 27 December 2010 - 09:45 PM
All World Class boxes have reverse gear synchro and the only difference in strength is whatever difference the different ratios makes
If you decide to go with a T5 the best fit into a torana is a ford 6 cyl EA 1988 right throu to EL 1999, from 1993 on they made the box slightly stronger and added a sychro on reverse gear also the ratios were changed to a slightly taller 1st gear and closer ratios.
All T5s are rate on there first gear for strength pre 1993 265 foot pound rating after 93 300 foot pound and ford Z box 330 foot pound regardless of there ratios.
I pulled apart a number of T5s and not all WCs have sychro on reverse, they are set up for it and easy to install, but only 93 and later had them fitted. In Australia any way
_nemo355v8_
Posted 28 December 2010 - 05:15 PM
They only come in one ratio for the 93 and later 6 cyl boxes 3.25, 1.99, 1.29, 1, 0.72. The same ratios as V6 commodores so in theory a shorter falcon input shaft should fit straight in to a ford box.
All World Class boxes have reverse gear synchro and the only difference in strength is whatever difference the different ratios makes
If you decide to go with a T5 the best fit into a torana is a ford 6 cyl EA 1988 right throu to EL 1999, from 1993 on they made the box slightly stronger and added a sychro on reverse gear also the ratios were changed to a slightly taller 1st gear and closer ratios.
All T5s are rate on there first gear for strength pre 1993 265 foot pound rating after 93 300 foot pound and ford Z box 330 foot pound regardless of there ratios.
I pulled apart a number of T5s and not all WCs have sychro on reverse, they are set up for it and easy to install, but only 93 and later had them fitted. In Australia any way
so if i go after 93 from a ford for what i want to use it for what ratios should i be looking at??
Heckler Extraordinaire
Posted 28 December 2010 - 05:43 PM
_nemo355v8_
Posted 28 December 2010 - 05:58 PM
All World Class boxes have a reverse synchro, if it doesn't then it will be an earlier T5.
Edited by nemo355v8, 28 December 2010 - 06:03 PM.
Posted 28 December 2010 - 07:25 PM
Yes you have to change the bell housing but as this seems to be a popular option they are a common aftermarket housing, and I know this side of the ditch it seems to be easier/cheaper to get the Ford T5s so that works into the budget too. Remember that swapping to the Ford shifter will give you a different stick position again because of the (small I suppose in the scheme of things) difference in input shaft and bell housing length.Unless i'm mistaken, wont the Fraud box need a special bellhousing due to the stupid lenght of the input shaft? Buying aftermarket Bellhousings is an expensive exercise!
Much easier.... simply fit the Fraud rear extension housing to your Commodore sourced T-5, then you have the correct bellhousing, the right input shaft length & the Holden clutch & flywheel assembly all bolt up nicely too!
Edited by 76lxhatch, 28 December 2010 - 07:34 PM.
_lxclone_
Posted 29 December 2010 - 09:51 AM
All World Class boxes have a reverse synchro, if it doesn't then it will be an earlier T5.
Not All T-5's are Created Equal
Not all Borg Warner T-5's are the same. The first T-5 five speeds were introduced to market in 1982, in all things, a AMC Spirit/Concord. In 1983, T-5's were introduced to Mustangs and are currently still used in the V-6 Mustangs. The T-5 is the only American made standard transmission to span almost 20 years of production. Because of the large quantities of T-5's produced, many parts are interchangeable. There are now over 200 different T-5 transmission assembly part numbers and still counting.
World Class & Non-World Class
There are two basic kinds of T-5's, Non World Class (NWC) and World Class (WC). In 1983 and 84 Ford used Non-World Class T-5 to improve performance and gas mileage at the same time. The NWC boxes had 2.95 first gear set with 1st, 2nd, 3rd, gears riding on a solid output shaft. The counter gears spin on straight cylindrical bearings with thrust washer in front. 3rd, 4th and 5th gears used solid bronze synchros. 1st and 2nd gears used fiber linings bonded to steel rings. Torque rating for the NWC was 265ft/lbs.
1985, Ford introduced the World Class T-5 installed with 3.35 first gear set. No longer were 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears spinning on a solid output shaft. Needle bearings were installed under each gear to reduce drag. The lower counter gears saw tapered bearings. All main shaft synchros were fiber lined steel rings to improve ring surface area while 5th remains bronze. By improving the surface area, the synchro slows the gear faster making for smoother shifts. Torque rating remained the same at 265ft/lbs.
1990 to 1993 the stock Ford production V-8 WC T-5 was upgraded with stronger 3.35 gear set. The nickel content was increased to produce a harder, stronger gear. 2nd and 3rd gear ratios decrease slightly. Synchro linings on 3rd, 4th were improved by changing to carbon fiber to further improve shifting. Longer throw shifter was installed to "easier to shift". Torque rating jumped to 300ft/lbs.
When the 93 Cobra was introduced, so was the "Cobra Spec" T-5. It was the first T-5 with a front tapered output bearing and steel front bearing retainer. The Cobra boxes also received a reverse brake and synchro assembly where there was none before. Just about everything else remained the same. Torque rating was increased to 310ft/lbs.
1994 and 95 were the last two years Ford used the T-5 behind a V-8. In the SN95 Mustangs, the bell housing in both 3.8L and 5.0L was made longer to place the T-5 shifter in the correct location to the body. This in turn made the input shaft longer. The neutral safety switch was eliminated, as it was no longer needed. Everything else remained the same.
Today's V-6 Mustangs sports the last of the T-5s. The T-5 behind the 3.8L is a 3.35 first gear set with a .68 over drive. What makes these different from the rest is the electronic speedometer trigger. No longer is there a mechanical driven cable system. It has the longer input shaft equipped with a steel front bearing retainer and reverse synchro brake assembly. Torque rating is 300ft/lbs.
Ford also used the T-5 in 2.3L through the years. While the 4 cylinder T-5 may appear to be the same they are not. Most 4 cylinder T-5s received a 3.97 gear set with a .79 overdrive and small input pilot bearing shaft. Four cylinder T-5's should not be used behind a V-8, even when the pilot bearing id is decreased to match. Simply put, they will not hold up. Torque rating ~240ft/lbs. Besides first gear is much too low to be usable
The "Z" Spec
In about 1993 Ford started offering a new service unit to the motorsport crowd. The "Z" spec T-5, also sometimes referred to as "World Class T-5". Most folks, associate the term "World Class" as meaning the best. The T-5z is a 93 Cobra T-5 with 2.95 first gear set and .63 over drive. It has the best of everything. Hardened gears, short throw shifter, steel front bearing retainer, and tapered output shaft bearing. Best of all it has a torque rating of 330ft/lbs. This T-5 can handle up to 450 hp if not drag raced.
This is from the states but same applies to Aussie T5s but at later dates.
Edited by lxclone, 29 December 2010 - 09:52 AM.
_nemo355v8_
Posted 29 December 2010 - 04:12 PM
Yep the ford box need a different bellhousing, but the inout shaft is th same lenght as a aussie 4 speed.Unless i'm mistaken, wont the Fraud box need a special bellhousing due to the stupid lenght of the input shaft? Buying aftermarket Bellhousings is an expensive exercise!
Much easier.... simply fit the Fraud rear extension housing to your Commodore sourced T-5, then you have the correct bellhousing, the right input shaft length & the Holden clutch & flywheel assembly all bolt up nicely too!
I am assuming that you already have a turbo pattern block?
_nemo355v8_
Posted 29 December 2010 - 04:42 PM
http://www.summitrac...s/FMS-M-7003-Z/ thisnemo355v8 ... thats an informative read.. i am tring to get my head round the whole t5 thing now am i wright in saying the best t5 is the one below?
..."In about 1993 Ford started offering a new service unit to the motorsport crowd. The "Z" spec T-5, also sometimes referred to as "World Class T-5". Most folks, associate the term "World Class" as meaning the best. The T-5z is a 93 Cobra T-5 with 2.95 first gear set and .63 over drive. It has the best of everything. Hardened gears, short throw shifter, steel front bearing retainer, and tapered output shaft bearing. Best of all it has a torque rating of 330ft/lbs. This T-5 can handle up to 450 hp if not drag raced."
DO THESE HAVE ID NUMBERS SO U KNOW WHAT U ARE GETTING?
i have looked at a few options now
we have the mal woods 7k complete in the car..
richmond super t10 2.5k will need every thing else ..both new you would asume no hidden problems..
t5 from either a ford..mmmm. or a commodore $300---$1500..plus everything else...secondhand may be hidden problems....
so far the t5 looks at it may be the one to look for..i am no a drag racer so 450hp gear box sound like the way..
i have a good budget for this but like most i want to save where i dont have to spend to get a good result
so lets have a couple of ideas on what setup you would use gearbox mod's clutch etc.....
MANY THANKS AGAIN TOM
All World Class boxes have a reverse synchro, if it doesn't then it will be an earlier T5.
Not All T-5's are Created Equal
Not all Borg Warner T-5's are the same. The first T-5 five speeds were introduced to market in 1982, in all things, a AMC Spirit/Concord. In 1983, T-5's were introduced to Mustangs and are currently still used in the V-6 Mustangs. The T-5 is the only American made standard transmission to span almost 20 years of production. Because of the large quantities of T-5's produced, many parts are interchangeable. There are now over 200 different T-5 transmission assembly part numbers and still counting.
World Class & Non-World Class
There are two basic kinds of T-5's, Non World Class (NWC) and World Class (WC). In 1983 and 84 Ford used Non-World Class T-5 to improve performance and gas mileage at the same time. The NWC boxes had 2.95 first gear set with 1st, 2nd, 3rd, gears riding on a solid output shaft. The counter gears spin on straight cylindrical bearings with thrust washer in front. 3rd, 4th and 5th gears used solid bronze synchros. 1st and 2nd gears used fiber linings bonded to steel rings. Torque rating for the NWC was 265ft/lbs.
1985, Ford introduced the World Class T-5 installed with 3.35 first gear set. No longer were 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears spinning on a solid output shaft. Needle bearings were installed under each gear to reduce drag. The lower counter gears saw tapered bearings. All main shaft synchros were fiber lined steel rings to improve ring surface area while 5th remains bronze. By improving the surface area, the synchro slows the gear faster making for smoother shifts. Torque rating remained the same at 265ft/lbs.
1990 to 1993 the stock Ford production V-8 WC T-5 was upgraded with stronger 3.35 gear set. The nickel content was increased to produce a harder, stronger gear. 2nd and 3rd gear ratios decrease slightly. Synchro linings on 3rd, 4th were improved by changing to carbon fiber to further improve shifting. Longer throw shifter was installed to "easier to shift". Torque rating jumped to 300ft/lbs.
When the 93 Cobra was introduced, so was the "Cobra Spec" T-5. It was the first T-5 with a front tapered output bearing and steel front bearing retainer. The Cobra boxes also received a reverse brake and synchro assembly where there was none before. Just about everything else remained the same. Torque rating was increased to 310ft/lbs.
1994 and 95 were the last two years Ford used the T-5 behind a V-8. In the SN95 Mustangs, the bell housing in both 3.8L and 5.0L was made longer to place the T-5 shifter in the correct location to the body. This in turn made the input shaft longer. The neutral safety switch was eliminated, as it was no longer needed. Everything else remained the same.
Today's V-6 Mustangs sports the last of the T-5s. The T-5 behind the 3.8L is a 3.35 first gear set with a .68 over drive. What makes these different from the rest is the electronic speedometer trigger. No longer is there a mechanical driven cable system. It has the longer input shaft equipped with a steel front bearing retainer and reverse synchro brake assembly. Torque rating is 300ft/lbs.
Ford also used the T-5 in 2.3L through the years. While the 4 cylinder T-5 may appear to be the same they are not. Most 4 cylinder T-5s received a 3.97 gear set with a .79 overdrive and small input pilot bearing shaft. Four cylinder T-5's should not be used behind a V-8, even when the pilot bearing id is decreased to match. Simply put, they will not hold up. Torque rating ~240ft/lbs. Besides first gear is much too low to be usable
The "Z" Spec
In about 1993 Ford started offering a new service unit to the motorsport crowd. The "Z" spec T-5, also sometimes referred to as "World Class T-5". Most folks, associate the term "World Class" as meaning the best. The T-5z is a 93 Cobra T-5 with 2.95 first gear set and .63 over drive. It has the best of everything. Hardened gears, short throw shifter, steel front bearing retainer, and tapered output shaft bearing. Best of all it has a torque rating of 330ft/lbs. This T-5 can handle up to 450 hp if not drag raced.
This is from the states but same applies to Aussie T5s but at later dates.
_lxclone_
Posted 29 December 2010 - 05:37 PM
http://www.summitrac...s/FMS-M-7003-Z/ this
nemo355v8 ... thats an informative read.. i am tring to get my head round the whole t5 thing now am i wright in saying the best t5 is the one below?
..."In about 1993 Ford started offering a new service unit to the motorsport crowd. The "Z" spec T-5, also sometimes referred to as "World Class T-5". Most folks, associate the term "World Class" as meaning the best. The T-5z is a 93 Cobra T-5 with 2.95 first gear set and .63 over drive. It has the best of everything. Hardened gears, short throw shifter, steel front bearing retainer, and tapered output shaft bearing. Best of all it has a torque rating of 330ft/lbs. This T-5 can handle up to 450 hp if not drag raced."
DO THESE HAVE ID NUMBERS SO U KNOW WHAT U ARE GETTING?
i have looked at a few options now
we have the mal woods 7k complete in the car..
richmond super t10 2.5k will need every thing else ..both new you would asume no hidden problems..
t5 from either a ford..mmmm. or a commodore $300---$1500..plus everything else...secondhand may be hidden problems....
so far the t5 looks at it may be the one to look for..i am no a drag racer so 450hp gear box sound like the way..
i have a good budget for this but like most i want to save where i dont have to spend to get a good result
so lets have a couple of ideas on what setup you would use gearbox mod's clutch etc.....
MANY THANKS AGAIN TOM
All World Class boxes have a reverse synchro, if it doesn't then it will be an earlier T5.
Not All T-5's are Created Equal
Not all Borg Warner T-5's are the same. The first T-5 five speeds were introduced to market in 1982, in all things, a AMC Spirit/Concord. In 1983, T-5's were introduced to Mustangs and are currently still used in the V-6 Mustangs. The T-5 is the only American made standard transmission to span almost 20 years of production. Because of the large quantities of T-5's produced, many parts are interchangeable. There are now over 200 different T-5 transmission assembly part numbers and still counting.
World Class & Non-World Class
There are two basic kinds of T-5's, Non World Class (NWC) and World Class (WC). In 1983 and 84 Ford used Non-World Class T-5 to improve performance and gas mileage at the same time. The NWC boxes had 2.95 first gear set with 1st, 2nd, 3rd, gears riding on a solid output shaft. The counter gears spin on straight cylindrical bearings with thrust washer in front. 3rd, 4th and 5th gears used solid bronze synchros. 1st and 2nd gears used fiber linings bonded to steel rings. Torque rating for the NWC was 265ft/lbs.
1985, Ford introduced the World Class T-5 installed with 3.35 first gear set. No longer were 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears spinning on a solid output shaft. Needle bearings were installed under each gear to reduce drag. The lower counter gears saw tapered bearings. All main shaft synchros were fiber lined steel rings to improve ring surface area while 5th remains bronze. By improving the surface area, the synchro slows the gear faster making for smoother shifts. Torque rating remained the same at 265ft/lbs.
1990 to 1993 the stock Ford production V-8 WC T-5 was upgraded with stronger 3.35 gear set. The nickel content was increased to produce a harder, stronger gear. 2nd and 3rd gear ratios decrease slightly. Synchro linings on 3rd, 4th were improved by changing to carbon fiber to further improve shifting. Longer throw shifter was installed to "easier to shift". Torque rating jumped to 300ft/lbs.
When the 93 Cobra was introduced, so was the "Cobra Spec" T-5. It was the first T-5 with a front tapered output bearing and steel front bearing retainer. The Cobra boxes also received a reverse brake and synchro assembly where there was none before. Just about everything else remained the same. Torque rating was increased to 310ft/lbs.
1994 and 95 were the last two years Ford used the T-5 behind a V-8. In the SN95 Mustangs, the bell housing in both 3.8L and 5.0L was made longer to place the T-5 shifter in the correct location to the body. This in turn made the input shaft longer. The neutral safety switch was eliminated, as it was no longer needed. Everything else remained the same.
Today's V-6 Mustangs sports the last of the T-5s. The T-5 behind the 3.8L is a 3.35 first gear set with a .68 over drive. What makes these different from the rest is the electronic speedometer trigger. No longer is there a mechanical driven cable system. It has the longer input shaft equipped with a steel front bearing retainer and reverse synchro brake assembly. Torque rating is 300ft/lbs.
Ford also used the T-5 in 2.3L through the years. While the 4 cylinder T-5 may appear to be the same they are not. Most 4 cylinder T-5s received a 3.97 gear set with a .79 overdrive and small input pilot bearing shaft. Four cylinder T-5's should not be used behind a V-8, even when the pilot bearing id is decreased to match. Simply put, they will not hold up. Torque rating ~240ft/lbs. Besides first gear is much too low to be usable
The "Z" Spec
In about 1993 Ford started offering a new service unit to the motorsport crowd. The "Z" spec T-5, also sometimes referred to as "World Class T-5". Most folks, associate the term "World Class" as meaning the best. The T-5z is a 93 Cobra T-5 with 2.95 first gear set and .63 over drive. It has the best of everything. Hardened gears, short throw shifter, steel front bearing retainer, and tapered output shaft bearing. Best of all it has a torque rating of 330ft/lbs. This T-5 can handle up to 450 hp if not drag raced.
This is from the states but same applies to Aussie T5s but at later dates.
http://www.jegs.com/...oductId=1343711 or even better this.
You wont find the Z box in any aus cars.
I use a standard falcon T5 behind my 355 making around 420 HP and drag race a fair bit, I have broken 1 box mostly from dropping the clutch to hard into 3rd on the drag strip, it stripped 3rd gear.
The ford box is the best one for a torana as the shift is in the same place as the aussie 4 speed, only mod needed to the floor is extend the shift hole a little.
My set up is, Holden flywheel and pressure plate Ford 10 inch clutch plate.
CRS bellhousing kit.
CRS Xmember
1994 Falcon T5
Shortened Falcon tailshaft, I run a 9 inch with a small uni yoke which is the same size uni as Falcons.
First box cost me $200 the one in the car now cost $300, and I have another I got for Free out of a paddock basher.
_lxclone_
Posted 29 December 2010 - 05:46 PM
Unless i'm mistaken, wont the Fraud box need a special bellhousing due to the stupid lenght of the input shaft? Buying aftermarket Bellhousings is an expensive exercise!
Much easier.... simply fit the Fraud rear extension housing to your Commodore sourced T-5, then you have the correct bellhousing, the right input shaft length & the Holden clutch & flywheel assembly all bolt up nicely too!
I am assuming that you already have a turbo pattern block?
_nemo355v8_
Posted 29 December 2010 - 06:14 PM
The commodore box will bolt straght to you motor, But its the input shaft and bellhoushing that make the box longer not the rear extention.
Unless i'm mistaken, wont the Fraud box need a special bellhousing due to the stupid lenght of the input shaft? Buying aftermarket Bellhousings is an expensive exercise!
Much easier.... simply fit the Fraud rear extension housing to your Commodore sourced T-5, then you have the correct bellhousing, the right input shaft length & the Holden clutch & flywheel assembly all bolt up nicely too!
I am assuming that you already have a turbo pattern block?
yes i have a turbo pattern makes things a bit simpler
so i can source a vr vs commodore t5 and the fraud extention housing and all will bolt up?
_nemo355v8_
Posted 29 December 2010 - 06:28 PM
_lxclone_
Posted 29 December 2010 - 10:25 PM
http://www.rodshop.c.../bh/bh-086b.htm
http://www.rodshop.c...bh/bh-012t5.htm
http://cgi.ebay.com....=item35ae402437
Heckler Extraordinaire
Posted 30 December 2010 - 08:23 AM
You wouldnt be able to just change the rear extension if this was the problem, the whole main shaft would need to be change or it would stick out of the shorter extension
_nemo355v8_
Posted 30 December 2010 - 05:32 PM
http://www.rodshop.c.../bh/bh-086b.htm
http://www.rodshop.c...bh/bh-012t5.htm
http://cgi.ebay.com....=item35ae402437
thanks nemo from your replys i guess your pretty keen on the t5
i thank you for your input
checking on freight as i wright will let u know
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