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The 195 on the 7 will be better than the 205 on the 8
15" Weld Draglites
Started by
_76S.L.R_
, Mar 24 2011 09:42 PM
102 replies to this topic
#52
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Posted 31 July 2011 - 01:20 PM
I recall years ago trying to get a 195 on my 7" armolites and the Tyre shop said they couldnt do it as it wont fit?!.The 195 on the 7 will be better than the 205 on the 8
will a 205 even fit on an 8" rim?,Im guessing not...
#53
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Posted 31 July 2011 - 02:19 PM
Heres pics I took yesterday guys, just realised the Tyre was 65 series not 60( 205/65/15, 4.5" backspace)
I dunno why but in my pics it looks like the rear will clear the guards,maybe the angle I took them on?,it definately looked to me yesterday that if the car was lowered down on these wheels the guards would rip into the tyres( rear only).
Brake clearance
Front wheel
Car is still up on stands in this pic
REAR WHEEL Fittment
Also I will need some Wheel Centering rings as can be seen here on the fronts with the hoppers kit
I dunno why but in my pics it looks like the rear will clear the guards,maybe the angle I took them on?,it definately looked to me yesterday that if the car was lowered down on these wheels the guards would rip into the tyres( rear only).
Brake clearance
Front wheel
Car is still up on stands in this pic
REAR WHEEL Fittment
Also I will need some Wheel Centering rings as can be seen here on the fronts with the hoppers kit
Edited by 76S.L.R, 31 July 2011 - 02:34 PM.
#54
Posted 31 July 2011 - 03:35 PM
It will - not particularly nice looking though and a tyre place may or may not do it for you. The ones I've seen I would be satisfied that it is safe (may depend on the tyre, they're not all the same despite supposedly universal sizing), but usually not much point when it would be so much better on a 7" wheel.will a 205 even fit on an 8" rim?,Im guessing not...
Looking at those pics I can see that the rear tyres would definitely catch on the guard lip, but if they are rolled properly you'll gain a lot. I would still be aiming for a 225 on the 8" wheel with 5.5" backspace. Unfortunately for you everything is so close that you really need to try it to get a definitive answer (and this was always going to be the case unless you go significantly narrower), but I would be optimistic based on what's been said in the dozens of threads about wheel fitment on here - perhaps spend a bit of time dragging back through them to see if anyone had the exact combination you are looking at?
Turns out the brakes weren't a big deal after all, isn't building a car fun...?
#55
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Posted 31 July 2011 - 05:47 PM
Fun?, not for me LOL! the top of the tyre looked to clear but where it bulges out on the sidewall would definately foul on the lip,im hoping to get the 5.5" backspace 8" with 215/60 on the rear after I get the guards rolled but I just dont know if it will clear?,if it does it will be close.
Can anyone confirm 100% that my diff at 1460mm is oversized,the standard is 1440 correct??
Can anyone confirm 100% that my diff at 1460mm is oversized,the standard is 1440 correct??
Edited by 76S.L.R, 31 July 2011 - 05:49 PM.
#56
ls2lxhatch
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Posted 31 July 2011 - 07:14 PM
Rolling the rear guards does not achieve a great deal. If you look inside the rear guard you will see that the wheel well steps out just above the lip.
I made the mistake of rolling the lip on my rear gaurds. If I was to do it again I would just trim 5 mm off the lip.
My standard diff measures 1446 mm from axle face to axle face without drums. The drums would probably add 3-4 mm.
I made the mistake of rolling the lip on my rear gaurds. If I was to do it again I would just trim 5 mm off the lip.
My standard diff measures 1446 mm from axle face to axle face without drums. The drums would probably add 3-4 mm.
#57
Posted 31 July 2011 - 07:45 PM
I don't mean to be argumentative but I beg to differ - yes you don't gain a significant amount of width as the inner guard heads inward not far above but you do gain that extra 10-15mm of height before anything touches, and that's a fair bit of suspension travel. The tyre you pick needs to have the tread inside this, the widest part of the sidewall should sit around where the original guard lip was (but remain clear) at full bump stop.Rolling the rear guards does not achieve a great deal. If you look inside the rear guard you will see that the wheel well steps out just above the lip.
#58
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Posted 03 August 2011 - 07:34 PM
if I buy the 8" Draglites with 5.5" Backspace wont the outside edge of the wheel be in the exact same spot as running the 7" Draglites with 4.5" backspace and if so then surely I wont fit anything bigger than a 205 tyre on there even with the guards rolled= correct???.
also Going by ls2lxhatch's measurement my diff is only 10mm overall longer than standard
also Going by ls2lxhatch's measurement my diff is only 10mm overall longer than standard
Edited by 76S.L.R, 03 August 2011 - 07:45 PM.
#59
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Posted 04 August 2011 - 11:45 PM
As mentioned in many other threads you should be able to fit the tyre size you mention with plenty of space to spare - just gotta get the spacing right. Can you get hold of some wheels with different backspacings? It probably doesnt matter if they are 14, 15 or 16 inch for mock up purposes.
On the LX sedan I have 8 inch rims with 235/60/15 ET streets with plenty of space to spare.
On the LX sedan I have 8 inch rims with 235/60/15 ET streets with plenty of space to spare.
#60
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Posted 05 August 2011 - 08:07 AM
But what I cant understand is why my 14" Armolites with 4" backspace with 215 tyres fitted and yet I put the 15" Draglite on the back with 4.5" backspace with 205 tyre and it wasnt going to fit?!As mentioned in many other threads you should be able to fit the tyre size you mention with plenty of space to spare - just gotta get the spacing right. Can you get hold of some wheels with different backspacings? It probably doesnt matter if they are 14, 15 or 16 inch for mock up purposes.
On the LX sedan I have 8 inch rims with 235/60/15 ET streets with plenty of space to spare.
Edited by 76S.L.R, 05 August 2011 - 08:14 AM.
#61
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Posted 05 August 2011 - 10:07 AM
But what I cant understand is why my 14" Armolites with 4" backspace with 215 tyres fitted and yet I put the 15" Draglite on the back with 4.5" backspace with 205 tyre and it wasnt going to fit?!
As mentioned in many other threads you should be able to fit the tyre size you mention with plenty of space to spare - just gotta get the spacing right. Can you get hold of some wheels with different backspacings? It probably doesnt matter if they are 14, 15 or 16 inch for mock up purposes.
On the LX sedan I have 8 inch rims with 235/60/15 ET streets with plenty of space to spare.
Because backspacing and offset are 2 different things mate
Their offset will be different
#62
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Posted 05 August 2011 - 11:09 AM
I have 15x8.5 inch convo pro`s with 235/60 r15`s on the rear witha 5 inch backspace and fits with 10mm clearance either side
#63
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Posted 05 August 2011 - 11:22 AM
But what I cant understand is why my 14" Armolites with 4" backspace with 215 tyres fitted and yet I put the 15" Draglite on the back with 4.5" backspace with 205 tyre and it wasnt going to fit?!
You are right it does not make sense as there should be more clearance between the outer edge of the rim and the guard on a 15" x 7" x 4.5" than there is with a 14" x 7" x 4".
It is possible the tyre bulge is significantly different as tyre bulge can vary significantly from one manufacturer to another even for the same rim, width and profile. It is also possible your 14" x 7" is actually a 14" x 6" so it would be worth checking the measurements. A 7" rim should measure 8" from outer edge to outer edge.
There is plenty of room for a 235 if you get the rim in the centre of the wheel tub.
Distance from axle face to outer edge of rim is (Rim Flange + Rim Width + Rim Flange) - Backspace
Armorlite 14" x 6" with 4" backspace. Distance from axle face to outer edge of rim is (0.5" + 6" + 0.5") - 4" = 3"
Armorlite 14" x 7" with 4" backspace. Distance from axle face to outer edge of rim is (0.5" + 7" + 0.5") - 4" = 4"
Draglite 15" x 7" with 4.5" backspace. Distance from axle face to outer edge of rim is (0.5" + 7" + 0.5") - 4.5" = 3.5"
Edited by ls2lxhatch, 05 August 2011 - 11:26 AM.
#64
Posted 05 August 2011 - 01:33 PM
If you'd pushed the wheel up into the guard, yes it would have grabbed the sidewall on the edge of the guard lip, but it really wasn't that far from from fitting was it? (Not according to the photos above). Roll the guards, get the 8" wheels with the better backspace and some reasonable tyres, and you're sorted (less sidewall bulge as well as moving the tread inward). It will still be quite close but so is every lowered Torana with wide wheels and tyres - as long as it clears, it clears!But what I cant understand is why my 14" Armolites with 4" backspace with 215 tyres fitted and yet I put the 15" Draglite on the back with 4.5" backspace with 205 tyre and it wasnt going to fit?!
#65
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Posted 05 August 2011 - 06:50 PM
Im off to buy the wheels tommorrow lads as I just got confirmaton Chris Mills Shop has the ones I need,then will pop some tyres on and get the guards rolled......
#66
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Posted 06 August 2011 - 09:15 AM
Another problem = seeing I was running 14" wheels 60 series tyres,if I now run 15" wheels my speedo will read wrong so if I use a 15" with 50 series tyre will this correct the problem? and will the tyre bulge out more running a 50 series tyre?.
#67
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Posted 06 August 2011 - 10:41 AM
Lower profile tyre... less bulge
#68
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Posted 06 August 2011 - 12:06 PM
Damnit!,I just got back from Chris Mills just now,they told me as I thought= running the 8" with 5.5 Backspace is no better for me than running the 7" with 4.5" Backspace as the wheel will sit is the same position outer rim wise so im gaining nothing!.
They said what they do with all the other guys buying those wheels for Torana's is to run the 15 x 6" 3.5" Backspace on the front and 7" on the back,they said you can get the 15x 7" with 5.5" backspace which I was unaware of!! and will take a week to order those ones in. I didnt buy any wheels today and think this option they suggest is my best bet?.
Wether the 6" with 3.5" backspace will cause different fittment over the hoppers brakes though I dont know?( the 6" are only in 3.5" backspace),I suspect it should be ok?
They said what they do with all the other guys buying those wheels for Torana's is to run the 15 x 6" 3.5" Backspace on the front and 7" on the back,they said you can get the 15x 7" with 5.5" backspace which I was unaware of!! and will take a week to order those ones in. I didnt buy any wheels today and think this option they suggest is my best bet?.
Wether the 6" with 3.5" backspace will cause different fittment over the hoppers brakes though I dont know?( the 6" are only in 3.5" backspace),I suspect it should be ok?
Edited by 76S.L.R, 06 August 2011 - 12:10 PM.
#69
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Posted 06 August 2011 - 03:24 PM
Take the stubs off with brakes attached with you when you go and test the wheels on them
If Stan was still running Allstreet you could have just asked the guru
He's been known to be a Torana man himself sometimes
But he sold the business
Did you consider talking to a tyre shop at any stage ?
Maybe give Wheels World in Osi Park a call and discuss
If Stan was still running Allstreet you could have just asked the guru
He's been known to be a Torana man himself sometimes
But he sold the business
Did you consider talking to a tyre shop at any stage ?
Maybe give Wheels World in Osi Park a call and discuss
#70
Posted 06 August 2011 - 10:21 PM
Yes the outer rim sits in the same place, no the tyre does not! And the tyre is what matters.Damnit!,I just got back from Chris Mills just now,they told me as I thought= running the 8" with 5.5 Backspace is no better for me than running the 7" with 4.5" Backspace as the wheel will sit is the same position outer rim wise so im gaining nothing!
#71
Posted 06 August 2011 - 10:59 PM
Not sure I'm explaining this right so I'll try a sketch - this doesn't take into account sidewalls or the outer rims at all but it does demonstrate how the wider wheel with all the width difference offset to one side moves the tyre over.
The dotted lines are the centre lines of the two different wheels, around which the tyre will also centre. Of course tyre sizes may vary but the exact same tyre on the 8" wheel will move over half the difference in backspace (1/2" / nearly 13mm) because the extra width is all backspace.
The dotted lines are the centre lines of the two different wheels, around which the tyre will also centre. Of course tyre sizes may vary but the exact same tyre on the 8" wheel will move over half the difference in backspace (1/2" / nearly 13mm) because the extra width is all backspace.
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#72
ls2lxhatch
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Posted 06 August 2011 - 11:52 PM
In other words.
The same width tyre will have (8" - 7") / 2 = 0.5" less overhang/bulge on an 8" rim than it does on an 7" rim.
Therfore if the outer edge of the 7" and 8" rims are the same distance from the guard then the 8" rim will have 0.5" more tyre clearance than the 7" rim with the same tyre.
The same width tyre will have (8" - 7") / 2 = 0.5" less overhang/bulge on an 8" rim than it does on an 7" rim.
Therfore if the outer edge of the 7" and 8" rims are the same distance from the guard then the 8" rim will have 0.5" more tyre clearance than the 7" rim with the same tyre.
Edited by ls2lxhatch, 07 August 2011 - 12:02 AM.
#73
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Posted 07 August 2011 - 12:17 AM
Or to look at it another way.
The front space on both rims are the same 3.5" but the offset has changed. The middle of the 8" rim has moved in 0.5" compared to the 7" rim giving 0.5" more tyre clearance than the 7" rim.
The middle of a 8" rim is (0.5 + 8.0 + 0.5) / 2 = 4.5". With a 5.5" backspace then the offset is 4.5 - 5.5 = -1.0"
The middle of a 7" rim is (0.5 + 7.0 + 0.5) / 2 = 4.0". With a 4.5" backspace then the offset is 4.0 - 4.5 = -0.5"
The rim proposed by Chris Mills
The middle of a 7" rim is (0.5 + 7.0 + 0.5) / 2 = 4.0". With a 5.5" backspace then the offset is 4.0 - 5.5 = -1.5"
The front space on both rims are the same 3.5" but the offset has changed. The middle of the 8" rim has moved in 0.5" compared to the 7" rim giving 0.5" more tyre clearance than the 7" rim.
The middle of a 8" rim is (0.5 + 8.0 + 0.5) / 2 = 4.5". With a 5.5" backspace then the offset is 4.5 - 5.5 = -1.0"
The middle of a 7" rim is (0.5 + 7.0 + 0.5) / 2 = 4.0". With a 4.5" backspace then the offset is 4.0 - 4.5 = -0.5"
The rim proposed by Chris Mills
The middle of a 7" rim is (0.5 + 7.0 + 0.5) / 2 = 4.0". With a 5.5" backspace then the offset is 4.0 - 5.5 = -1.5"
Edited by ls2lxhatch, 07 August 2011 - 12:21 AM.
#74
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Posted 07 August 2011 - 11:54 AM
I got the sign on the offset wrong, it should be positive not negative.
The middle of a 8" rim is (0.5 + 8.0 + 0.5) / 2 = 4.5". With a 5.5" backspace then the offset is 5.5 - 4.5 = +1.0"
The middle of a 7" rim is (0.5 + 7.0 + 0.5) / 2 = 4.0". With a 4.5" backspace then the offset is 4.5 - 4.0 = +0.5"
The rim proposed by Chris Mills
The middle of a 7" rim is (0.5 + 7.0 + 0.5) / 2 = 4.0". With a 5.5" backspace then the offset is 5.5 - 4.0 = +1.5"
The middle of a 8" rim is (0.5 + 8.0 + 0.5) / 2 = 4.5". With a 5.5" backspace then the offset is 5.5 - 4.5 = +1.0"
The middle of a 7" rim is (0.5 + 7.0 + 0.5) / 2 = 4.0". With a 4.5" backspace then the offset is 4.5 - 4.0 = +0.5"
The rim proposed by Chris Mills
The middle of a 7" rim is (0.5 + 7.0 + 0.5) / 2 = 4.0". With a 5.5" backspace then the offset is 5.5 - 4.0 = +1.5"
#75
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Posted 07 August 2011 - 12:16 PM
When comparing different width rims you should look at the offset. If the offset stays the same then the centre of the rim will be in the same position. If the offset stays the same then the backspace will increase or decrease by half the increase in rim width.
7" rim with 4" backspace has 4 - 4 = 0 Offset
8" rim with 4.5" backspace has 4.5 - 4.5 = 0 Offset
7" rim with 4" backspace has 4 - 4 = 0 Offset
8" rim with 4.5" backspace has 4.5 - 4.5 = 0 Offset
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