Ive got a battery box in the Torrie but the battery rattles around in the box and if i hit a bump i hear it jump around a bit.
What do people use to stop the battery moving around?
When I took it to the drags the guy said next time you come make sure it does not move around
Cheers
Loui
Battery Boxes
Started by
Loui
, May 21 2006 01:45 AM
43 replies to this topic
#1
Loui
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Posted 21 May 2006 - 01:45 AM
#2
_MYLJ_
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Posted 21 May 2006 - 11:20 AM
I've got my battery secured inside the battery box with the original hold down clamp from the engine bay (same as torana but mine is in the HQ 
) I have screwed small angle brackets through the box into the floor that the clamp arms then connect to. It all fits inside the battery box and is very secure, I'll take a couple of pics if you like.
) I have screwed small angle brackets through the box into the floor that the clamp arms then connect to. It all fits inside the battery box and is very secure, I'll take a couple of pics if you like.
#4
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Posted 21 May 2006 - 01:57 PM
Excellent, thanks for that, wont be too hard to make something up
Cheers
Loui
Cheers
Loui
#5
_wildsix_
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Posted 21 May 2006 - 07:48 PM
what type of cable do you use from the battery to the starter motor?
#7
_CHOPPER_
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Posted 21 May 2006 - 09:10 PM
I've seen 95 sq mm welding cable for $13 a metre. That's the big size.
#8
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Posted 21 May 2006 - 09:30 PM
Due to my rusted-out Battery Tray, I'm tempted to stick the battery in a Box in the boot, but some people have said they don't recommend it for a daily driver as it can create some problems that you wouldn't normally have.
Does anyone with some experience wanna list any issues that can arise from relocating the thing?
Cheers
Does anyone with some experience wanna list any issues that can arise from relocating the thing?
Cheers
Edited by Heath, 21 May 2006 - 09:30 PM.
#9
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Posted 21 May 2006 - 09:39 PM
Legally, the rust needs to be fixed. This negates any real reason to re-locate the battery. But provided you have decent sized cable, a 4 wheel dive sized battery and proper connections there shouldn't be any real issues. Apart from losing the boot space. The battery box would probably best be vented to atmosphere.
#10
antelopeslr5000
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Posted 21 May 2006 - 11:14 PM
I've had my battery in the boot of my LX for 11 years now and never had a problem. Just make sure you use good quality (and also flexible!) cable with low resistance. I'm using 4 AWG power cable which was designed for audio use and it's very flexible. 
#11
gtrboyy
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Posted 22 May 2006 - 04:36 PM
Ive had batteries in the boot of my lc & the lx I used to own & never had a problem either.
#12
_Oldn64_
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Posted 23 May 2006 - 12:06 AM
The whole thing about a battery in the boot is potential for voltage drop. This goes for starting the car Ie getting voltage from the battery to charging the car (ie voltage to the battery.)
if you use good quality parts and design the system well you will have a good setup. most people will forget to add ground points and have issues with starting the car, but this is easily fixed.
cheers
if you use good quality parts and design the system well you will have a good setup. most people will forget to add ground points and have issues with starting the car, but this is easily fixed.
cheers
#13
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Posted 23 May 2006 - 12:46 PM
you say to vent the box to the outside of the car do some battery boxes do this for you (come already set up) or do i have to play around and do it myself
#14
makka
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Posted 23 May 2006 - 01:11 PM
you will probably have to run a small hose from the box through a hole in your floor or something
#15
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Posted 23 May 2006 - 02:19 PM
We relocated the battery in my LJ to the boot, havent had any problems so far, just use a normal sized battery, and make sure you get the correct sized box for your battery. My box is nut and bolted to the boot floor, the box has its own "vent" i suppose where the cables come out. To answer the question of cable, we just used heavy duty battery cable, weighs a tonnes, but i made some brackets up and ran it along the rail underneath the car (not sure on the legality of that but hey, its black and you cant see it.) anyways if my battery was bashing around then some foam glued to either side of the battery box would work
Cheers buddy. Chris
Cheers buddy. Chris
#16
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 23 May 2006 - 02:46 PM
Shouldnt be any need to be using a bigger battery if it is boot mounted. Its a misconception to believe a battery with more cca's is going to give better performance in this situation. It cant provide more current if there is more resistance in the circuit, in reality less is demanded of the battery.
Its the resistance of your cable and quality of your extra earth connections that are more critical than when the battery is mounted closer to the motor. (i hope no one is going to post about how the car is only held together by a few spot welds between the boot and the engine)
If they are poor, voltage drops will occur and this will be the reason as to why the motor might not crank fast enough to start, ie less than 9V at the starter when cranking and you have potential problems irrespective of whether you have a battery with high cca and Ah rating (Only be able to crank the motor longer at a speed which wont start it)
Its the resistance of your cable and quality of your extra earth connections that are more critical than when the battery is mounted closer to the motor. (i hope no one is going to post about how the car is only held together by a few spot welds between the boot and the engine)
If they are poor, voltage drops will occur and this will be the reason as to why the motor might not crank fast enough to start, ie less than 9V at the starter when cranking and you have potential problems irrespective of whether you have a battery with high cca and Ah rating (Only be able to crank the motor longer at a speed which wont start it)
Edited by devilsadvocate, 23 May 2006 - 02:46 PM.
#17
_70rey_
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Posted 23 May 2006 - 07:58 PM
im putting the battery in the boot of my lj and ive spoken to our electricial and he says its fine as slong as it ventilated, scure and has a decent cabe going to the engine.
#18
Dangerous
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Posted 25 May 2006 - 04:24 PM
Funny you should say that. Years ago, I installed a high power amp in an early model Magna (not mine), and had big noise and power problems. Started measuring resistance and voltage drop along the floorpan, and guess what? About an Ohm across the floorpan join where it had been "spot" welded. Braided cable connector across the join fixed things, but I don't think I'd own a Magna!(i hope no one is going to post about how the car is only held together by a few spot welds between the boot and the engine)
Edited by Dangerous, 25 May 2006 - 04:25 PM.
#19
_The Baron_
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Posted 25 May 2006 - 05:49 PM
Funny how that came up again Mr Devil.
#20
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 25 May 2006 - 08:21 PM
Cant speak for Magnas ^, could end up with glowing spot welds there? but if youve got a real torrie...shouldnt find problems above, of which Ive done some measurements to back it up.
Most multimeters dont offer better resolution than 0.1Ohm which is still significant resistance for an earth. Best way to measure is to look for voltage drops when drawing a significant current.
Here's what Ive done. Using a 12V 60W hand held spotlight with an earth lead long enough to go from battery to other end of the car. The voltage across the lamp was measured with the earth placed in various locations around the car(right through to the rear bumper) with the +ve fixed to the battery. Measuring the voltage to 0.01V resolution the max difference in moving to various points around the car was ~0.02V(those who can manipulate ohms law can work out the res). The drop with 3m of the best battery cable that money can buy is going to be significantly greater.
Most multimeters dont offer better resolution than 0.1Ohm which is still significant resistance for an earth. Best way to measure is to look for voltage drops when drawing a significant current.
Here's what Ive done. Using a 12V 60W hand held spotlight with an earth lead long enough to go from battery to other end of the car. The voltage across the lamp was measured with the earth placed in various locations around the car(right through to the rear bumper) with the +ve fixed to the battery. Measuring the voltage to 0.01V resolution the max difference in moving to various points around the car was ~0.02V(those who can manipulate ohms law can work out the res). The drop with 3m of the best battery cable that money can buy is going to be significantly greater.
#21
_The Baron_
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Posted 28 May 2006 - 10:30 PM
I love this.
I have discussed this with others and all will agree the biggest issue with batteries is making sure the damb connections are 100%.
When you crank the thing, even the small resistance in the circuit works against you.
Remember it is only 12 pissy volts and you want hundreds of amps.
The Devils finding are sound, they do go to prove that .02v drop was the worst and as he said he even tested at the rear bumper bar.
V=I.R the challenge was. Therefore R=V/I, R= .02v/5A(60w), R= 0.004 ohms.
Small hey. But if you are sending say a wishful 400A through this circuit then according to Ohm's law the volt drop is V=I.R, V=400A x 0.004 ohms Vdrop =1.6V
Yep, a whole 1.6V, but that is a 13.3% loss.
Now think this is only one leg of the circuit and according to the Devil the positive cabling is worse!!
By the way a bigger battery does not get around the problem as it is the Voltage that dictates the Current through the Resistance. OK
So if you must put the battery further away in the boot, all that copper and steel is going to make it harder to start the bastard. An additional Earth cable back to the motor from the battery is only going to help "if" you have problems.
I hope I have explained my point better this time.
I will check the resistance of 95mm flexible cable tomorrow.
Cheers
I have discussed this with others and all will agree the biggest issue with batteries is making sure the damb connections are 100%.
When you crank the thing, even the small resistance in the circuit works against you.
Remember it is only 12 pissy volts and you want hundreds of amps.
The Devils finding are sound, they do go to prove that .02v drop was the worst and as he said he even tested at the rear bumper bar.
V=I.R the challenge was. Therefore R=V/I, R= .02v/5A(60w), R= 0.004 ohms.
Small hey. But if you are sending say a wishful 400A through this circuit then according to Ohm's law the volt drop is V=I.R, V=400A x 0.004 ohms Vdrop =1.6V
Yep, a whole 1.6V, but that is a 13.3% loss.
Now think this is only one leg of the circuit and according to the Devil the positive cabling is worse!!
By the way a bigger battery does not get around the problem as it is the Voltage that dictates the Current through the Resistance. OK
So if you must put the battery further away in the boot, all that copper and steel is going to make it harder to start the bastard. An additional Earth cable back to the motor from the battery is only going to help "if" you have problems.
I hope I have explained my point better this time.
I will check the resistance of 95mm flexible cable tomorrow.
Cheers
#22
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Posted 28 May 2006 - 11:29 PM
Nice work Baron,
400A.......perhaps on a stalled starter, but 60-100A is all one will see on a 6cyl
Correct, only increasing batt voltage gets over the prob, hence 24V systems in trucks etc.
Makes good numbers to look at the change in power at the starter
12 V 400A and the solely the 0.004Ohm body connection.
If the 0.004r wasnt there the starter would get 461A
Thats an increase in power of (4.61/4)^2 = 35%
This increase would only be 7% on a typical 100A starter.
All this is ignoring the internal resistance of the battery which will be the other major factor when creating currents this big. You'll see a drop of ~1-1.5V across a standard battery when only using 100A. So yes a bigger battery(more cca's) will have less voltage drop, so admittingly counteract effects of more resistance to a small degree.
Anyway, wouldnt be using my res readings in any journal though, only done by holding connections at various points onto bits of metal bared with a nail and remembering "worst readings" were 0.02V.
400A.......perhaps on a stalled starter, but 60-100A is all one will see on a 6cyl
Correct, only increasing batt voltage gets over the prob, hence 24V systems in trucks etc.
Makes good numbers to look at the change in power at the starter
12 V 400A and the solely the 0.004Ohm body connection.
If the 0.004r wasnt there the starter would get 461A
Thats an increase in power of (4.61/4)^2 = 35%
This increase would only be 7% on a typical 100A starter.
All this is ignoring the internal resistance of the battery which will be the other major factor when creating currents this big. You'll see a drop of ~1-1.5V across a standard battery when only using 100A. So yes a bigger battery(more cca's) will have less voltage drop, so admittingly counteract effects of more resistance to a small degree.
Anyway, wouldnt be using my res readings in any journal though, only done by holding connections at various points onto bits of metal bared with a nail and remembering "worst readings" were 0.02V.
#24
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Posted 29 May 2006 - 06:32 PM
Getting back to the original question i made a plate 5mm bigger than the battery on both sides tacked on a threaded rod on both sides in the middle bolted this in the box put some rubber on top so the bolts dont rub through the battery sat the battery in put the box clamp on top wing nuts on DONE.
#25
TerrA LX
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Posted 01 June 2006 - 09:27 PM
about venting, there are two issues here one health and legallity and the other battery performance.
one; "vented batteries" as opposed to sealed batteries let off gas as the work, the harder they work the more gas, so if you had say a hatch back as opposed to a 4door, you would have to ensure that any venting was to the outside of the car and not to the cabin not only to prevent a defect (we all follow the letter of the law here for road going cars dont we) but also for your health as worst case being if the battery split. (if you ever had this happen, if stinks etc) and hence the reason for it being illegal to not have the battery vented to the outside of the car.
two; if gas comes out of the battery then gas (and liquid) must be able to get back in.
one; "vented batteries" as opposed to sealed batteries let off gas as the work, the harder they work the more gas, so if you had say a hatch back as opposed to a 4door, you would have to ensure that any venting was to the outside of the car and not to the cabin not only to prevent a defect (we all follow the letter of the law here for road going cars dont we) but also for your health as worst case being if the battery split. (if you ever had this happen, if stinks etc) and hence the reason for it being illegal to not have the battery vented to the outside of the car.
two; if gas comes out of the battery then gas (and liquid) must be able to get back in.
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