im having problems with my gbox
its a m20 4sp rebuilt, i put a really gud shifter on it.
wen i drive in second, and it goes over 2 grand slowing down or speeding up, i slips straight into neutral??
the shifter really feels like its sercurly into 2nd so i really have no idea why its happening.
any one had this happen before? i know my old crappy m20 used to do it in 3rd and its sooo anoying!. specially wen ur motor is a real rever.
thanx,
nathan
having problems with my gbox
Started by
_UCV80_
, May 22 2006 11:23 AM
44 replies to this topic
#2
_MYLJ_
_MYLJ_
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Posted 22 May 2006 - 11:28 AM
probably not the shifter if its adjusted properly, tends to be an internal problem from memory, worn cluster gears perhaps.
#3
_UCV80_
_UCV80_
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Posted 22 May 2006 - 11:45 AM
havent even driven 1km.
might fiddle with the linkages, i hope its not internal
thanx
#4
_CHOPPER_
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Posted 22 May 2006 - 06:26 PM
Internal gearbox problem. I had the same problem with my 3 speed crash box in the EH. Used to drop out of top gear on occaision. Normally after being in the one gear for 20 minutes or more. I had the problem explained and optioned for a syncro box. 2 problems solved.
#5
_UCV80_
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Posted 22 May 2006 - 09:25 PM
damn sounds bad.... so how would i fix it?
should a rebuilt box have this problem?
i know its definatly not my shifter or links so u guys must be right, internal problem.
,Thanx
so how would i fix it?should a rebuilt box have this problem?
i know its definatly not my shifter or links so u guys must be right, internal problem.
,Thanx
#6
_UCV80_
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Posted 22 May 2006 - 09:27 PM
One more question!
What if my box has no oil?????????? or minimal oil
auto seems to depend on there oil alot.. how about manual?
What if my box has no oil?????????? or minimal oil
auto seems to depend on there oil alot.. how about manual?
#7
surfmaster
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Posted 22 May 2006 - 09:37 PM
Manual boxes rely on oil for lubrication and cooling, autos rely on oil for both of those and hydraulic operation of valves, clutch packs, band servos and the operation of the torque converter.
If your M20 is low on oil it will let you know, it will get noisy and start to eat itself internally. M20's have a reputation for chewing the circlip on the 1/2 synchro mechanism on the mainshaft making it hard to engage 2nd. Once this condition starts they then start eating the mainshaft. If you haven't looked inside your box for a while it may be time to bite the bullet and give it an overhaul.
If your M20 is low on oil it will let you know, it will get noisy and start to eat itself internally. M20's have a reputation for chewing the circlip on the 1/2 synchro mechanism on the mainshaft making it hard to engage 2nd. Once this condition starts they then start eating the mainshaft. If you haven't looked inside your box for a while it may be time to bite the bullet and give it an overhaul.
#8
_MYLJ_
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Posted 22 May 2006 - 09:38 PM
if you have driven it without oil , or with very little oil in it then you will probably have stuffed it if it is jumping out of gear, Aussie 4 speeds are very fussy about oil quantity and quality.One more question!
What if my box has no oil?????????? or minimal oil
auto seems to depend on there oil alot.. how about manual?
If it is jumping out of gear it is BAD
#9
_UCV80_
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Posted 22 May 2006 - 09:53 PM
it should of had some oil in there though...
iv driven Max 400m didnt notice any wining but the engine is hell loud.
if i put oil in will it fix it?
doesnt have any probs engaging 2nd just doesnt stay there for long.
iv driven Max 400m didnt notice any wining but the engine is hell loud.
if i put oil in will it fix it?
doesnt have any probs engaging 2nd just doesnt stay there for long.
#10
surfmaster
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Posted 22 May 2006 - 09:55 PM
Topping the oil up may help, have you had the box out? Why is the engine "hell" loud - do you have devils in the dipstick tube?
#11
_CHOPPER_
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Posted 22 May 2006 - 09:59 PM
They should have 2.5 pints of oil. Or 1.42 litres. Drain the old oil first and see what comes out.
#12
_MYLJ_
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Posted 22 May 2006 - 09:59 PM
If it jumps out of gear it is probably too late ,you can try putting oil in it but don't hold your breathe.it should of had some oil in there though...
iv driven Max 400m didnt notice any wining but the engine is hell loud.
if i put oil in will it fix it?
doesnt have any probs engaging 2nd just doesnt stay there for long.
probably better pulling it out and getting it checked before it does any more damage to itself.
#13
_UCV80_
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Posted 22 May 2006 - 10:48 PM
i think ill giv it an oil change...
would be nice if that fixed it....
if not maybe its time for a celica 5sp conversion.
the box was out when i bought it.. fresh rebuild by a tafe i think.
haha yea straight cut gears block out any wines!
thanx for all your help!
,nathan
would be nice if that fixed it....
if not maybe its time for a celica 5sp conversion.
the box was out when i bought it.. fresh rebuild by a tafe i think.
haha yea straight cut gears block out any wines!
thanx for all your help!
,nathan
#14
rodomo
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Posted 22 May 2006 - 11:43 PM
Who built the box? Is it your old one rebuilt? I would check linkages and linkage stroke first. Undo the rear linkage on the drivers side, put it in 2nd by hand and drive it up the road. If it still jumps out, crawl under it 
put it in first and drive home crying cos you have to pull the gearbox out again.
put it in first and drive home crying cos you have to pull the gearbox out again.
Edited by rodomo, 22 May 2006 - 11:47 PM.
#15
_Oldn64_
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Posted 22 May 2006 - 11:53 PM
Righto,
M20's are a science in themselves. all of the replys are correct. these are the things that you need to look out for when rebuilding teh box, if the TAFE was just doing it as an exercise then the rebuild may not be of quality.
Jumping out of gear can be a couple of reasons.
1. syncro warn
2. cluster warn
3. main shaft warn
4. pourly adjusted or warn shifter.
Aussie four speeds also do not use sae 80/90, they use sae70 and this usually most issues relating to pour shifting.
What happens if you select third? if you take out teh fit plug what level is the oil at?
Cheers
M20's are a science in themselves. all of the replys are correct. these are the things that you need to look out for when rebuilding teh box, if the TAFE was just doing it as an exercise then the rebuild may not be of quality.
Jumping out of gear can be a couple of reasons.
1. syncro warn
2. cluster warn
3. main shaft warn
4. pourly adjusted or warn shifter.
Aussie four speeds also do not use sae 80/90, they use sae70 and this usually most issues relating to pour shifting.
What happens if you select third? if you take out teh fit plug what level is the oil at?
Cheers
#16
_UCV80_
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Posted 23 May 2006 - 05:25 PM
how do u drain oil out of an m20? no plugs.
just that plug on the side which i cant get off.. seems impossible.. although ill try again tomorow.
i think it could be the linkages... 2nd doesnt go back enough. and 1st goes a bit too forward.
ill try sort that out tomorow.
Spent the whole of the day trying to figure out my engine.. found out its only running on 4cylinders
No idea who built it, was just told it was built by a tafe. scary
thanx
,nathan
just that plug on the side which i cant get off.. seems impossible.. although ill try again tomorow.
i think it could be the linkages... 2nd doesnt go back enough. and 1st goes a bit too forward.
ill try sort that out tomorow.
Spent the whole of the day trying to figure out my engine.. found out its only running on 4cylinders
No idea who built it, was just told it was built by a tafe. scary
thanx
,nathan
#17
_Oldn64_
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Posted 23 May 2006 - 07:00 PM
the "bolt" on teh side of teh main case is teh fill hole. This is where you put new oil, if this is "hard" how did you fill teh box to start with? Secondly, to drain the box use the bottom most bolt that holds the extension housing on. This will drain the box and enable you to change teh oil. I am concerned that there is no oil in the car.. :S
Cheers
Cheers
#18
surfmaster
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Posted 23 May 2006 - 07:37 PM
If you drain the old oil out first check to see what metal is in the oil, a little will come out when you start draining, if the oil has a metallic look right through it you have problems in the box. To set the linkages adjust them with the box in neutral turn the adjustment on the end of the linkages so that all the gates on the selector line up. There should be no excessive movement in the shifter.
#19
_UCV80_
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Posted 23 May 2006 - 08:46 PM
ok, thanx for all the info.
ill fix it all up tomorow and see what happens.
the box definatly came with oil in it. the plug was sealed tight. real tight
hopefully positive results
cheers,
nathan
ill fix it all up tomorow and see what happens.
the box definatly came with oil in it. the plug was sealed tight. real tight
hopefully positive results
cheers,
nathan
#20
_LC2250_
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Posted 23 May 2006 - 11:34 PM
how bad is it to run on sae 80/90 opposed to the 70?
I thought it's 2L not 1.4L for the m20 ... according to the book I used when swapping mine over (Gregorys) ... I'd love to be corrected ...
-Al
I thought it's 2L not 1.4L for the m20 ... according to the book I used when swapping mine over (Gregorys) ... I'd love to be corrected ...
-Al
#21
_Oldn64_
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Posted 24 May 2006 - 12:45 AM
Every box I have worked on has held 1.9L so yes 1.4 is a little light on but hell better than none.. :S SO no 2L is wrong but close..
Cheers
PS: Quite a bit actually, you have premiture wearing of teh surfaces and also very pour drivability when cold. Really do need to run the right weight oil.
Cheers
PS: Quite a bit actually, you have premiture wearing of teh surfaces and also very pour drivability when cold. Really do need to run the right weight oil.
#22
_LC2250_
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Posted 24 May 2006 - 02:26 PM
eeeep! hmm ... if I just empty as much of the oil out as I can by removing the tail shaft and refil the rest with 70 sae will that do the trick save removing the gearbox? bah ... it's an m20 ... agricultural gearbox.
Cheers Oldn64
-Al
Cheers Oldn64
-Al
#23
_Oldn64_
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Posted 24 May 2006 - 03:33 PM
What the????eeeep! hmm ... if I just empty as much of the oil out as I can by removing the tail shaft and refil the rest with 70 sae will that do the trick save removing the gearbox? bah ... it's an m20 ... agricultural gearbox.
Cheers Oldn64
-Al
remove the bottom bolt from teh extension housing to the mainhousing and all teh oil will drain.... then just pour the stuff in teh fill hole (big nut on passenger side.) until it is at the bottom of the fill hole, then all is good.
Cheers
#24
_UCV80_
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Posted 24 May 2006 - 03:48 PM
its tru that bolt works...
unfortunatly i had limited oil pouring out quite a pathetic amount
nobody say "u should of put oil in it" coz i alredy know that and feel like crap! it musta leaked a bit when installing the engine. i remember a puddle. thought they woulda taken more then 1.9L
i didnt drive far... so it may be ok if i put oil in it
i fixed the linkages so there working better..
once i buy the new spark plugs ill take it for a spin..
the plug on the side is solid in there... its insane. is there any other holes to fill?
thanx.
nathan
unfortunatly i had limited oil pouring out
quite a pathetic amountnobody say "u should of put oil in it" coz i alredy know that and feel like crap! it musta leaked a bit when installing the engine. i remember a puddle. thought they woulda taken more then 1.9L
i didnt drive far... so it may be ok if i put oil in it
i fixed the linkages so there working better..once i buy the new spark plugs ill take it for a spin..
the plug on the side is solid in there... its insane. is there any other holes to fill?
thanx.
nathan
#25
_Oldn64_
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Posted 24 May 2006 - 05:16 PM
Ok Nathan.
couple of things. go get yourself some oil. Also get yourself and tube of molybond.(2 of) grab a spanner for the plug and then link another spanner on teh end of it so that you get a bigger lever. Turn anti clockwise (ie pull towards the back of the car) these do not need to be tight tight but do need to be firm, sounds like your builder was a gorilla. Hopefully the distance you have driven was short enough that teh preassembly oil/lube did its job. It is always better to put teh motor in without the gearbox as it is simpler and quicker. you also would not have spilt any oil and would have know to fill it too. No there is no other way of filling the oil. Make sure when linking the spanners together that you use good quality ones. cheap spanners will break, and for the sake of the bolt make sure you do not use a shifter. Worse case go to super creep and buy a spanner to do the job.
Cheers
couple of things. go get yourself some oil. Also get yourself and tube of molybond.(2 of) grab a spanner for the plug and then link another spanner on teh end of it so that you get a bigger lever. Turn anti clockwise (ie pull towards the back of the car) these do not need to be tight tight but do need to be firm, sounds like your builder was a gorilla. Hopefully the distance you have driven was short enough that teh preassembly oil/lube did its job. It is always better to put teh motor in without the gearbox as it is simpler and quicker. you also would not have spilt any oil and would have know to fill it too. No there is no other way of filling the oil. Make sure when linking the spanners together that you use good quality ones. cheap spanners will break, and for the sake of the bolt make sure you do not use a shifter. Worse case go to super creep and buy a spanner to do the job.
Cheers
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