Not sure if you really need to run another relay to your device if you have the tachiometric relay. Having several relays in series can only add to possible sources of failure!
No reason that they couldnt be designed to be able to switch 20-30A. I cant actually see a rating on the one in my car, it only switches gas solenoids which use a total of ~4A.
Off course if you went this way you would possibly need a heavier duty power source than the ignition wire(especially if it were still a conventional resistance wire ignition), live 12V source would be okay....but not sure if there would be regs(in lpg installations) that say this wire must also be switched by the ignition in case of failure of the tach relay to work properly.
electric fuel pumps
Started by
_RTS Guy_
, Jun 01 2006 04:44 PM
60 replies to this topic
#27
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Posted 03 June 2006 - 02:44 PM
2 holley blue set up one for street duties and 2 for pedal to the metal late night cruises ) the little rotary loves the go juice.
#28
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Posted 03 June 2006 - 05:21 PM
Thanks for the tips guys! I'll look into the switching rating of the tachio relays and see if it'll do for the pump!
so it does come on for a small time to allow the system to prime! That's what i was most interested in! Does anyone know roughly how long it stays on for to prime?
THanks for the topic steal!
so it does come on for a small time to allow the system to prime! That's what i was most interested in! Does anyone know roughly how long it stays on for to prime?
THanks for the topic steal!
#29
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Posted 03 June 2006 - 07:45 PM
About 3-4 seconds,enough to prime the lines.My one also has a pretty red light on it so you know when it switches on lol.
#30
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Posted 03 June 2006 - 10:55 PM
I have a holley red and ill never get one again..holley that is.. for some reason it has a bug. Ive stripped it a hundred times and the thing just stops whenever it wants... I probably should get a better one witha regulator anyway.
#31
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Posted 04 June 2006 - 08:52 AM
Not trying to steal the thread but it is related. i have a carter black ready to go on my car, what regulator did you guys go with? just a normal holley blue reg?
#32
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Posted 04 June 2006 - 12:13 PM
Chia: I used one of those little holley regs for a while but i got the shits with it not holdingpressure propperly!
I put on a mallory 3 port return reg.. It still plays up a little ( when it locks the fuel pressure it'll stay around there.. but it may be lower than what you originally set!! Weird shit...).
Its a Mallory 3 port return reg
I'm very happy with it.. the gremlins seems to be natural to my car/fuel system! has not affected anything!
Cheers
I put on a mallory 3 port return reg.. It still plays up a little ( when it locks the fuel pressure it'll stay around there.. but it may be lower than what you originally set!! Weird shit...).
Its a Mallory 3 port return reg
I'm very happy with it.. the gremlins seems to be natural to my car/fuel system! has not affected anything!
Cheers
#33
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Posted 04 June 2006 - 08:39 PM
I have a Holley Gerotor on order..... supposed to be nice and quiet and can support up to 900HP
We'll see
We'll see
#34
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Posted 04 June 2006 - 10:17 PM
What brand is your little black box gtrboy? Little red light sounds useful, hehe. 3-4 seconds is a little to short for first prime of the day imo but it doesn't matter, all you do it flick it and go again, no harm done.
My Holley blue is loud as all buggery but I don't have the time or money to change it at the moment so I just put up with it. Seems to get the fuel up there tho, and this is with it mounted in the boot! poor mongrel is having to suck it up before it spits it to the engine. I will suffer from lean out tho as soon as the new ignition system is in and the cars running properly.
Cheers,
My Holley blue is loud as all buggery but I don't have the time or money to change it at the moment so I just put up with it. Seems to get the fuel up there tho, and this is with it mounted in the boot! poor mongrel is having to suck it up before it spits it to the engine. I will suffer from lean out tho as soon as the new ignition system is in and the cars running properly.
Cheers,
#35
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Posted 05 June 2006 - 12:37 AM
Datto although Holley rate their pump to 900hp, I'd like to see someone actually do it, especially as the pump and reg have the same outlets as a Holley Blue. 3/8" NPT.I have a Holley Gerotor on order..... supposed to be nice and quiet and can support up to 900HP
We'll see
Out of interest, what have you been quoted?
#36
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Posted 05 June 2006 - 12:47 AM
BOTTLEDUP - thanks for the feedback, much appreciated 
ChiaLX - With my Carter black, I am using a normal cheapie Holley reg (no return line). Just one line in, and twin feeds into my Mighty Demon, also have a little fuel pressure gauge t'd into one of the lines. This setup has been working fine for me for several years so far. I've thought about fitting a better reg with return line as Tiny has done, but since I can't really fault my current setup, I'm in no hurry to do so.
ChiaLX - With my Carter black, I am using a normal cheapie Holley reg (no return line). Just one line in, and twin feeds into my Mighty Demon, also have a little fuel pressure gauge t'd into one of the lines. This setup has been working fine for me for several years so far. I've thought about fitting a better reg with return line as Tiny has done, but since I can't really fault my current setup, I'm in no hurry to do so.
Edited by LXCHEV, 05 June 2006 - 12:47 AM.
#37
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Posted 05 June 2006 - 05:56 PM
Thanks LXCHEV and TIny.
If I get a reg with a return line do I have to set it up straight away or can I just plug that outlet until I get my drop tank?
the price of the mallory return reg and the normal non by-pass one are almost the same price.
If I get a reg with a return line do I have to set it up straight away or can I just plug that outlet until I get my drop tank?
the price of the mallory return reg and the normal non by-pass one are almost the same price.
#38
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Posted 05 June 2006 - 07:48 PM
To the best of my knowledge you must run a return line with a bypass reg.. thats how they work!
If you wanted to go the way your talking about, just get one of the cheapie holley regs ( less than $50 or less if someone you know has one lying around!!) and do that, then run the return line and new reg later!
Just remeber when you set up the first system to leave enough line to inlet to the new reg ( I was lucky i thought ahead!!)
Cheers
If you wanted to go the way your talking about, just get one of the cheapie holley regs ( less than $50 or less if someone you know has one lying around!!) and do that, then run the return line and new reg later!
Just remeber when you set up the first system to leave enough line to inlet to the new reg ( I was lucky i thought ahead!!)
Cheers
#39
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Posted 05 June 2006 - 07:57 PM
I don't have 900 HP (yet) so it shouldn't be a problem,Jun 4 2006, 10:37 PM]
Datto although Holley rate their pump to 900hp, I'd like to see someone actually do it, especially as the pump and reg have the same outlets as a Holley Blue. 3/8" NPT.I have a Holley Gerotor on order..... supposed to be nice and quiet and can support up to 900HP
We'll see
Out of interest, what have you been quoted?
As for the price..... when I find out I'll let you know
#40
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Posted 05 June 2006 - 08:43 PM
Thanks Tiny, I didnt think I could. 
Back to the original thread:
Darren have you decided what pump you are getting yet??
Back to the original thread:
Darren have you decided what pump you are getting yet??
#41
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Posted 05 June 2006 - 09:39 PM
Fair enough........is it possible to pair it with a suitable regulator to make it suitable?EFI fuel pump run very high fuel pressure when compared to a carby electric fuel pump.
#42
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Posted 06 June 2006 - 12:26 AM
It is possible to get a reg that will drop the pressure of an EFI pump down to a pressure acceptable to a carby.. but it will be a bypass type, similar to the Mallory one described by Tiny.
I believe Aeromotive much a unit that will suffice.
I believe Aeromotive much a unit that will suffice.
#43
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Posted 06 June 2006 - 09:32 AM
thanks Mick, at the moment it looks like i will be getting the mallory. as i said i have heard it and the noise level is acceptable and its a good pump.Back to the original thread:
Darren have you decided what pump you are getting yet??
i would like to try the aeromotive cause they do seem like a good pump but its hard to find anyone that has used them.
noise is an important factor for me, bit fussy i guess but i would hate to get the car on the road and have it annoying the shit out of me.
thanks for all the help guys, lots of good information.
#44
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Posted 08 June 2006 - 04:01 PM
Liam:AirRod is the brand of relay that I am using,it cost $20 from the local lpg place in my area.
#45
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Posted 08 June 2006 - 08:23 PM
I think modern relay's are extremely reliable and having several shouldn't make a difference. You can always carry a spare.Not sure if you really need to run another relay to your device if you have the tachiometric relay. Having several relays in series can only add to possible sources of failure!
No reason that they couldnt be designed to be able to switch 20-30A. I cant actually see a rating on the one in my car, it only switches gas solenoids which use a total of ~4A.
Off course if you went this way you would possibly need a heavier duty power source than the ignition wire(especially if it were still a conventional resistance wire ignition), live 12V source would be okay....but not sure if there would be regs(in lpg installations) that say this wire must also be switched by the ignition in case of failure of the tach relay to work properly.
As to shut off, use the same signal as most are using to save their battery from being flattened by thermo fans, put a jumper wire on your alternator D+ terminal to power your relay's.
If the alternator isn't turning theirs no power to switch the relay's on.
If you want to use this for several items, you will may need to put 1 relay in to do the switching on for several.
I think you can also get relay's with 2 or double output terminals.
This means you will use power from the battery to run all the accessories and no real load on the alternator D+ terminal.
I will be using 3 in this manner, electric heated choke (on my ww strom) my thermo fan and the electric fuel pump, cant see anything that will cause me grief here.
I just checked all my spare Bosch plug-in relay's, they all switch 30 or 40 amp's including the spot light ones with 2 terminals.
Paul
#46
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Posted 08 June 2006 - 09:53 PM
Need some help here, not familiar with the D+ terminal on the alternator?I think modern relay's are extremely reliable and having several shouldn't make a difference. You can always carry a spare.
As to shut off, use the same signal as most are using to save their battery from being flattened by thermo fans, put a jumper wire on your alternator D+ terminal to power your relay's.
If the alternator isn't turning theirs no power to switch the relay's on.
If you want to use this for several items, you will may need to put 1 relay in to do the switching on for several.
I think you can also get relay's with 2 or double output terminals.
This means you will use power from the battery to run all the accessories and no real load on the alternator D+ terminal.
I will be using 3 in this manner, electric heated choke (on my ww strom) my thermo fan and the electric fuel pump, cant see anything that will cause me grief here.
I just checked all my spare Bosch plug-in relay's, they all switch 30 or 40 amp's including the spot light ones with 2 terminals.
Paul
If what you say is correct, the D+ terminal goes dead if the alternator isnt turning why would there be any need to bother with manifold vaccum switches or tachiometric relays?
Regarding reliability of relays, yes some last for ever, some dont.......Ive had enough name brand relays fail to be wary of using them unless absolutely necessary.
Sure you can carry a spare, but when your engine carks it in the middle of a dark night in the middle of a blizzard, it doesnt tell you what component/connection has just mysteriously failed and some fault finding/tracing is necessary.
#47
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Posted 08 June 2006 - 10:14 PM
gotta hate driving torries in blizzards!
#48
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Posted 08 June 2006 - 11:04 PM
This one, click the image for a full size pic.Need some help here, not familiar with the D+ terminal on the alternator?
If what you say is correct, the D+ terminal goes dead if the alternator isnt turning why would there be any need to bother with manifold vaccum switches or tachiometric relays?
Tachiometric relay's & vac switches? not sure.
Someone else might have an idea.
Edited by LX2DR, 08 June 2006 - 11:10 PM.
#49
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Posted 09 June 2006 - 01:50 AM
Right you are, never noticed the +d besides this.
Im not sure on the mechanism of how this terminal works exactly in the alternator operation, unfortunately you cant use this terminal for the purpose of a fuel shut off device.
This terminal will go ~2V when the ignition is in the on position with the lead from the warning light in place, which is not enough to trigger a relay or power anything through the warning light wire, fine.
However, it wont go 14V(or be at the same potential as the warning lamp wire) until the alternator is spinning fast enough ~ 600rpm, hence no power will go to the fuel relay until the motor is running.........which will never happen unless it gets fuel first.........hence making it unsuitable as a fuel control trigger.
Havent thought of using it for control of other devices, ie electric fans.....would seem perfect as there is no way the fans would come on unless the motor is spinning.
Im not sure on the mechanism of how this terminal works exactly in the alternator operation, unfortunately you cant use this terminal for the purpose of a fuel shut off device.
This terminal will go ~2V when the ignition is in the on position with the lead from the warning light in place, which is not enough to trigger a relay or power anything through the warning light wire, fine.
However, it wont go 14V(or be at the same potential as the warning lamp wire) until the alternator is spinning fast enough ~ 600rpm, hence no power will go to the fuel relay until the motor is running.........which will never happen unless it gets fuel first.........hence making it unsuitable as a fuel control trigger.
Havent thought of using it for control of other devices, ie electric fans.....would seem perfect as there is no way the fans would come on unless the motor is spinning.
Edited by devilsadvocate, 09 June 2006 - 02:02 AM.
#50
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Posted 09 June 2006 - 04:00 PM
there is normally enough fuel to start a car in the float bowl of the carb, if it starts easily. you could always have a momentary on toggle switch to prime it. what ever floats your boat
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