54 replies to this topic

[yel327]

I wouldn't worry too much about proving it, I can tell you for a fact that is how it works! This is how you see the really original cars in NZ on Ebay too. In any case it makes perfect sense, why would a NZ delivered car have an Aussie ADR plate? I recorded a NZ delivered HZ Sandman recently that had a GVW plate where the Aussie ADR plate would be (like pre 1970 commercials have here).

[Bazza]

Hi

I agree wholeheartedly that export cars didn't need and ADR and in my experience the vast majority didn't. H175274 (the Plumdinger XU-1 presently on sale in NZ) appears on the VIN disc as a 000-X yet has an ADR. Why would this be?

Cheers

Bazza

Attached Files

•  H175274_ADR_.jpg   92.41K   4 downloads

[meanmachine72]

Is it my eye's playing up or dose that look like its stamped a 42 door.

hahah
theres also an extra number in the chassis number as well...

[Bazza]

Hi

I guess with all things there will be anomalies and exceptions to the rule. Perhaps if a car was pre-ordered for sale overseas it was not fitted with an ADR tag, but if an order was fulfilled from unallocated or unsold stock the ADR was left in place. There is nothing to suggest that the Plumdinger XU-1 was ever sold in Australia prior to shipment.

Cheers

Bazza

Attached Files

•  H175274.jpg   12.85K   0 downloads

[xu2308]

NZ must have a S.B.R Tag instead of a ADR Tag
S.B.R = She'll Be Right

[yel327]

000 cars can be sold anywhere. It is just a masking code to hide the "selling dealer". There are heaps of cars like this, not just export or GMH internal cars. Alan, read what I put up higher in the post, also echoes by Bazza. If a car was wholesaled from Australia to a NZ dealer or transferred out of plant stock to fulfil an order it'd have the ADR plate. Still sold new in NZ, but not made for the market. If you could get hold of the original build records for LC-LJ they would show ordering dealer, wholesaling dealer and selling dealer. I'd bet the car you are talking about would show an Aussie ordering and Wholesaling dealer. Look at the build records for A9X in Eric Blair's book, but alas I know no-one that has these records for anything other than A9X. If you could find them for LC-LJ it is possible H175274 shows 266 as one of the dealer codes, I think this is the internal stock order "dealer" code for Elizabeth vehicles.

Edited by yel327, 23 October 2012 - 12:45 PM.

[yel327]

I'll see what I can find. Not sure what evidence you have, but cars originally built for NZ would not get ADR plates, they are not relevant to the NZ market.

[xu2308]

Wouldent the NZ Goverment , put there own type of ADR Tag on these cars when they get ready for NZ Rego, or there rego paper work say they are checked and ok for NZ Roads.

[yel327]

I have no doubt it was. But as it has an ADR tag is wasn't built for the NZ market, just sold there. Having a 000 code on the service/warranty records just means there was no selling dealer code recorded - computer needed a number so it got 000. Just like the extra 0's added to engine numbers when they aren't 6 digits.
The way I believe it worked: broadly cars were either built to customer order or built for stock (this of course excludes those cars built for internal purposes, prototypes etc). Assuming for a moment Holden, Torana etc were only built (built in this sense may even mean entered into the rolling schedule) for Australia or NZ, this means 4 x types of vehicles:

1. Customer or dealer orders from Australia.
2. Customer or dealer orders from NZ.
3. Cars built for plant stock for Australian sale.
4. Cars built for sale in NZ.

Types 2 and 4 would have no ADR tag. Type 3 were available (just like today) to be allocated to a dealer or sold, and these vehicles could easily be sent to NZ for sale. Although it is possible that type 4 never existed, and all vehicles not pre-ordered were built with ADR tags - this is something I have not yet managed to figure out. You would think that some vehicles were built for stock for sale in NZ though.

[ewe-one]

I always believed that ADR tags were par for the course for export cars. Mine certainly has one and as far as I know was always destined for NZ. Norms book mentions 93 cars built between August and December that didn't need to be built for CAMS Homologation and were either exported or not registered in aus. Perhaps adding the ADR was precautionary in case these 000 cars were needed to fulfill the local market, or maybe it was not worth modifying the tooling to eliminate the holes. Either way it did not stop these cars being exported and sold.

 ADR-tag.jpg   51.66K   2 downloads

 Registration1.jpg   177.33K   3 downloads

[yel327]

Cars without ADR tags still have the holes, Holdens do anyway, not sure about the Toranas with the ID tags on the radiator support. As stated above, is it has an ADR tag it was not originally designed (better word than built) for NZ. It would have been built with the intention/possibility of it being sold in Australia. Probably a plant stock vehicle.

Love the paperwork though, an XVI with a non existant high compression 173 engine number!

I just found the 1978 HZ Sandman van ID plate photos. It has a VIN and BODY plate, but a GVW tag where the ADR tag would go. It is an original 1/78 to 10/79 HZ Sandman GVW tag, it cannot have belonged to any other car as it says 2000kg - this is a unique GVW to HZ Sandman van, and unique to NZ as these cars had to ADR plate so they had to have a GVW tag. Unfortunately this van does not appear in GMH records as it is a 5/78 build and sold new in NZ later than that. The HZ records finish in 6/78 (when they were printed) so as the vehicle probably had not yet been sold/delivered it was not recorded.

[yel327]

All the ones I have seen have had holes, but remember this is Holdens not Toranas. I'll see if I can did up some pictures, but i'm not sure I have them. The holes just go into the plenum area on Holdens with ADR tags.

For proof what i'm telling you is fact, go and look in the front of any Holden/Statesman or Torana/Sunbird parts catalogue. Look next to the Safety Compliance plate picture. saye "not applicable to export"

Edited by yel327, 23 October 2012 - 09:00 PM.

[kiwi-lilj]

 DSC07983.JPG   138.05K   7 downloadsHello

Here is a pic of my NZ new very original LJ. There is no ADR tag but the holes appear to be there and a couple of original? style rivets to blank them off.

Blair

[S pack]

I'm not really up with the subject of Australian Compliance Plates on export vehicles to NZ. My first thought is it's an Australian Compliance Plate required only for the domestic market, nothing to do with NZ or any other export market so why would you bother fitting one to vehicles ordered and made for export. The above pic in kiwi-lilj post is proof that NZ cars weren't required to have Australian Compliance Plates.

I'll stick my neck out and assume that any Holden that landed in NZ with an Aussie compliance plate attached wasn't originally made or intended as an export vehicle. If such a vehicle shows up on the VIN listing with a 000X dealer code then it's more than likely it was simply plucked from GMH stock, recorded as exported and put on the ship.

On the other hand if a compliance plated vehicle is listed with an aussie dealer code but has evidence it was sold new in NZ then it would have to be a stock transfer from an Aussie dealer to a NZ dealer.

[yel327]

I'm not really up with the subject of Australian Compliance Plates on export vehicles to NZ. My first thought is it's an Australian Compliance Plate required only for the domestic market, nothing to do with NZ or any other export market so why would you bother fitting one to vehicles ordered and made for export. The above pic in kiwi-lilj post is proof that NZ cars weren't required to have Australian Compliance Plates.

I'll stick my neck out and assume that any Holden that landed in NZ with an Aussie compliance plate attached wasn't originally made or intended as an export vehicle. If such a vehicle shows up on the VIN listing with a 000X dealer code then it's more than likely it was simply plucked from GMH stock, recorded as exported and put on the ship.

On the other hand if a compliance plated vehicle is listed with an aussie dealer code but has evidence it was sold new in NZ then it would have to be a stock transfer from an Aussie dealer to a NZ dealer.

I think part of the problem is GMH's records aren't as good as we'd like. We've all seen the mistakes in microfiche records, and some of these will be the selling dealer codes. From what I understand on the early records a vehicle with an X for the ordering zone office means it was ordered as an export vehicle, but as we've seen that Plumdinger vehicle had an ADR plate but had a X ordering zone. If it was built for Aussie plant stock it'd have an A or B or other such Aussie code. In the later vehicles, it appears that all "built for export" to NZ cars got the same selling dealer code as NZ dealers didn't have dealer codes as far as the records are concerned, and these all appear to get 239. I think all these vehicles went via the Trentham plant, and it'll probably be these that don't get the ADR plates. The rest probably came into NZ via some other method. But after all thsi time it is hard to put the puzzle back together.