Jump to content


Photo

FORD to close in Aust by 2016!


  • Please log in to reply
157 replies to this topic

#51 _mikecatts_

_mikecatts_
  • Guests

Posted 25 May 2013 - 08:51 AM

I own a late model ford ute and a late model commodore sedan... Ive tried :)

Don't want to be a nark.....but time for a reality check.......how many people have actually bought a local Holden or local Ford in the last few years.?

From what I see, everyone is parading around in their new Toyota, Mazda, VW or whatever.
All very spec'd up and Euro chic, or Japanese reliable etc.

Forget blaming the government ( don't care which one)..its about Aussies not actually buying Aussie made cars.
Sure the previous governments didn't help with tariff reductions etc...but the current model Commodores particularly are exceptional value for money, don't use that much fuel and look good.
BUT...people don't seem to want them.
The local manufacturers just can justify making a small car to match the imports...our population just isn't big enough to ever get the development costs back. Even if they tried, the Aussie dollar is so strong ( only because of the rescources we have and the fact that the US is such a basket case)they they couldn't compete anyway.

End of rant..
Just my 3 pesos worth



#52 StephenSLR

StephenSLR

    Oh My, Don't you post alot

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,707 posts
  • Name:Stephen
  • Location:Sydney
  • Car:1976 LX SL/R
  • Joined: 12-November 05

Posted 25 May 2013 - 09:04 AM

The whole idea of people saying they want small cars is bs in my opinion. I'm 6 foot 4 and most younger kids are taller now rather than smaller and  need the leg room in the back seat of a car so it would appeal more to families to have a bigger car. HOWEVER due to yuppie wankers thinking they need a 4wd in the city that is what is popular and that is what is being sold (we won't go to far into that). 

 

I'm not sure about the population growing taller, I can speak for Sydney and we're full of migrants now from Asia/India and I haven't noticed too many driving V8's, they're also looking to save fuel money and I'd say they're used to the smaller cars they have back home.

 

s



#53 RIM-010

RIM-010

    DON'T PANIC

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,076 posts
  • Name:Tim
  • Location:Cowell, SA
  • Car:LJ 2 Door - HQ Premier
  • Joined: 01-March 06
Garage View Garage

Posted 25 May 2013 - 09:16 AM

It's not BS, Hamo, because it's happening...

 

I've never bought a new car, but every car I have bought has been Australian made... 

 

I've got a 5 month old kid and a VY SV8 Sedan, and it's always full of baby stuff... frOck knows how people get away with smaller cars and kids.



#54 xu2308

xu2308

    Grail Hunter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,704 posts
  • Name:AL
  • Location:Belconnen ACT
  • Car:SMP LJ GTR V8 Prototype-Confirmed By HHS and Ex GMH XW7 Engineers
  • Joined: 09-April 09

Posted 25 May 2013 - 09:19 AM

So Ford America will import American Ford's into Australia in 3 years time, to keep the Ford Dealers going around Australia, all its game over for them as well ?????? What will happen with the V8 Supercars, I guess Ford V8 Mustangs instead of Ford V8 Falcons



#55 yel327

yel327

    Oh My, Don't you post alot

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,119 posts
  • Joined: 10-February 08

Posted 25 May 2013 - 10:15 AM

Don't want to be a nark.....but time for a reality check.......how many people have actually bought a local Holden or local Ford in the last few years.?

From what I see, everyone is parading around in their new Toyota, Mazda, VW or whatever.
All very spec'd up and Euro chic, or Japanese reliable etc.

Forget blaming the government ( don't care which one)..its about Aussies not actually buying Aussie made cars.
Sure the previous governments didn't help with tariff reductions etc...but the current model Commodores particularly are exceptional value for money, don't use that much fuel and look good.
BUT...people don't seem to want them.
The local manufacturers just can justify making a small car to match the imports...our population just isn't big enough to ever get the development costs back. Even if they tried, the Aussie dollar is so strong ( only because of the rescources we have and the fact that the US is such a basket case)they they couldn't compete anyway.

End of rant..
Just my 3 pesos worth

 

Totally agree. But the problem isn't us (the consumer) in many cases. Ford and Holden don't build what the market wants. If i'm looking for a new car (which I did three times over the last 3 years), I consider myself part of that market. The first new car, there were 3 x manufacturer's offering something reasonably close to what I wanted: a big petrol engine manual 4x4 or AWD ute that could tow a 2.5tonne trailer (to replace my Cross8). Toyota V6 auto Hilux SR5, Nissan Navara V6 auto STX and Holden Colarado 3.0 V6. No-one else had this, I really wanted a 5-6L V8 auto but no-one sells these in Australia. So I bought he Hilux as it was the best of them. When it got written off 12 months later, I looked around and there was nothing better so I got another one (the second car). The third one, I wanted a car to replace the V2 CV8 that my mrs drove (damn thing is still sitting in the shed catching dust!), but she wanted a smaller SUV, not a big ugly hulking 7 seater. Only stipulation was it had to be 200+kW, AWD and not butt ugly. No-one sold this. They all either wanted to put wheezing 4cyl 110kW crap into them (basically sewing machine engines), or bloody diesels. She really liked the Subaru XV but it had about as much power as a Janome. We also liked the smaller 5 seat Captiva, but again only in FWD and 4cyl junk, the bigger ones got the local 3.0L V6. The VW Tiguan was a favourite, with the turbo petrol engine, but them I looked at servicing costs and we quickly forgot those. In the end there was only one choice, an RX350 Lexus and we bought an 11month old demonstrator Sports Luxury for about half new price. Doesn't help Ford, Holden or Toyota producing locally unfortunately. Even if Holden had put leaf springs in the SS ute and made it capable of towing 2.3 tonnes I would have bought that as a V8 auto rear wheel drive would do, I don't necessarily need 4WD (I don't think my now 2 year old Hilux has actually been in 4WD once).



#56 yel327

yel327

    Oh My, Don't you post alot

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,119 posts
  • Joined: 10-February 08

Posted 25 May 2013 - 10:19 AM

I agree, the reliability myth attached to certain cars is just that, a myth.

 

Especially current Toyota. This company built its reputation on SV21 Camrys & AE92/102 Corollas nearly 2 decades ago. Ask an owner of a present-day Hi-Lux diesel or Kluger about reliability & running costs, you won't get a very pleasant response from some of them.

 

Current Commodores & Falcons are light years ahead in reliability compared to those of the 80s & 90s, many Japanese cars, not so.

 

Since I closed my workshop last year (est. mid-70s) I now sell electronic & ignition parts to the trade, It's amazing the difference between the public's perception & reality. 

 

Dr Terry

 

Terry, when I got my Hilux serviced at Toyota last week, manager told me that they almost never get driveline warranty claims on V6 Hiluxes other than clutches. All the problems are either diesel or cheap Thai gearbox related. So imagine the gauntlet you must run on these post end of warranty period. I wouldn't own a Thai made diesel outside of warranty period if you gave it to me! And this is Toyota. Imagine the problems with the other junk!



#57 Ice

Ice

    Cool

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,127 posts
  • Name:Gene
  • Location:Galaxy's away from Ipswich
  • Car:77 HZ Sandman Van
  • Joined: 03-January 07

Posted 25 May 2013 - 10:33 AM

Have to diagree with you

Terry, when I got my Hilux serviced at Toyota last week, manager told me that they almost never get driveline warranty claims on V6 Hiluxes other than clutches. All the problems are either diesel or cheap Thai gearbox related. So imagine the gauntlet you must run on these post end of warranty period. I wouldn't own a Thai made diesel outside of warranty period if you gave it to me! And this is Toyota. Imagine the problems with the other junk!

Have to disagree with you i bought a 2004 mazda 4x4 freestyle cab turbo deisel i popped the turbo gasket at 7000 ks only coz i pushed it but was under warranty anyway but now 147000 km later has been trouble free and my mate bagged me for not buying a hilux
My buddy bought a brand new v6 hilux think it was 07 or 08 cant remember at 1500 ks they had to take top half of the engine off some problems inside they reckon they fixed it but was never the same went back to the dealers 3 times at 25000 ks he flicked the pos he will never buy another one he said
Hilux arnt what they used to be and if you havnt owned other deisel powered cars how would you know how good or bad they are
my bravo will be 10 years old next year havnt had a spanner on it yet bar oil and filters

#58 Dr Terry

Dr Terry

    Technical + Numbers Guru + Moderator

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,279 posts
  • Location:Eastwood (Sydney) NSW
  • Joined: 13-November 05

Posted 25 May 2013 - 10:57 AM

So Ford America will import American Ford's into Australia in 3 years time, to keep the Ford Dealers going around Australia, all its game over for them as well ?????? What will happen with the V8 Supercars, I guess Ford V8 Mustangs instead of Ford V8 Falcons

We don't know yet what the Aussie Falcon replacement is to be, 3 years is a long time. It could be a Mondeo, Fusion or Taurus. It could even be rebadged as a Falcon, but I doubt that Ford could get away with fitting a Falcon badge to a FWD shopping trolley. There is a possibility that Ford US will have the long-awaited replacement for the Ford Crown Victoria ready to go, they could export that to Aust. & badge it as a Falcon, at least it is a proper sized RWD car.

 

I doubt that they would allow a Mustang as a V8 Supercar, I think it has to be 4 door. They could do it with a Mondeo, Fusion or Taurus, let's face it they did it with the Nissan Altima.

 

Dr Terry



#59 _LH SLR 3300_

_LH SLR 3300_
  • Guests

Posted 25 May 2013 - 12:20 PM

The closest I've come to buying a new car was our 2002 VX Calais which was purchased second hand still under new car warranty from a Holden dealer. If we ever traded it, it would more than likely be for another Commodore. I am not to keen on imported vehicles, not because i'm particularly brand conscious or such, mainly because I've found through working in the auto repair industry that although they can be in some cases cheaper, better value for money or better appointed than the locally built Aussie cars, the after sales cost of maintaining & repairing these cars is considerably greater. Parts availability for even brand new cars can be an issue, it's not uncommon for some parts to be on three week back order ex-Japan & up to six weeks or more for some Euro stuff. Generally if a part is needed for a Falcon, Territory or Commodore, we get it the same day. And if you're paying for parts that aren't covered under warranty, my sister forked out $1800 for a transmission shifter on her 2005 3 series BMW, a grill that needed replacing on a Lexus RX350 at work the other day cost $3000, compare those prices to the equivalent Falcon or Commodore parts. Each to their own but it would be very hard for me to accept having to make a claim through insurance to replace a grill or pay for it out of my own pocket. It also gets very frustrating having to tell customers that we cannot fix their car for a month because the parts are not available in Australia & having them abuse us for it, when in all likelihood they failed to take this sort of situation into consideration when purchasing an imported vehicle over the locally produced ones.



#60 yel327

yel327

    Oh My, Don't you post alot

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,119 posts
  • Joined: 10-February 08

Posted 25 May 2013 - 01:15 PM

Have to diagree with you Have to disagree with you i bought a 2004 mazda 4x4 freestyle cab turbo deisel i popped the turbo gasket at 7000 ks only coz i pushed it but was under warranty anyway but now 147000 km later has been trouble free and my mate bagged me for not buying a hilux
My buddy bought a brand new v6 hilux think it was 07 or 08 cant remember at 1500 ks they had to take top half of the engine off some problems inside they reckon they fixed it but was never the same went back to the dealers 3 times at 25000 ks he flicked the pos he will never buy another one he said
Hilux arnt what they used to be and if you havnt owned other deisel powered cars how would you know how good or bad they are
my bravo will be 10 years old next year havnt had a spanner on it yet bar oil and filters

 

Japanese V6 petrol and auto (V6 auto Hilux) vs Thai diesel and auto (Diesel auto Hilux). I know which one i'd always buy! My clams about the diesel Hilux and modern diesel reliability weren't from my experience, it is from the handful of service managers I know: 1 x Mazda,  1 x Toyota and 1 x Subaru. The engines are not as reliable as the older units as the manufacturers are pushing the envelope with them, hence the higher failure rates. Your mate's V6 Hilux is the only one i've ever heard of with problems. Clutch problems, yes, but not the engine itself. I've had two, both have been trouble free as you'd expect for a Japanese Toyota engine and auto transmission.

 

Before i'd driven a V6 auto Hilux i'd only ever driven a V6 manual and they are awful, it was only by chance I drove a used auto one when I was at a Mazda dealer looking at buying a 2009/2010 Mazda BT-50 probably the same as yours. I really liked the 3.0L diesel in the BT-50, it was by far the best of the diesel lot to drive. I was set on a DX+ Freestyle cab, had it all priced ready to go. It was at that stage a friend who was an ex Mazda service manager told me knowing my driveway and what I tow if I was getting one to get an auto, otherwise i'd be replacing the clutch inside 10,000kM and would probably be up for a normal replacement flywheel and clutch (not dual mass). But Mazda didn't sell the DX+ Freestyle cab in an auto, and I wasn't paying $10k more for an SDX just to get an auto and some ugly silver flares on a white car. So I left p!ssed off, walking back to the car via a Toyota dealership where I drove the auto V6 Hilux for the first time and bought one that week as a 1 month regoed demo for less than the cost of the SDX Mazda extra cab, There was nothing wrong with that series BT-50, they were good, cheap (at DX+ level), and reliable as you'd expect an older series to evolve into. But as far as comparing that SDX auto Freestyle cab with an SR5 V6 auto dual cab Hilux for the same money, the Hilux wins hands down in driveability, comfort, power, towing ability plus resale should probably be similar (i'll probably sell it inside 80,000kM unless it cops a GenIV V8 conversion). If Mazda had made a DX+ auto Freestyle cab, like you i'd probably be driving one now and would never have known about the V6 auto Hilux. Or to be truthful, I may not actually be driving anything as the curtain airbag in the Hilux saved me from a pretty nasty head injury, not sure that if i'd had the same accident n the Mazda if i'd be here today, as you never know how a different car might behave in the same accident!



#61 _Skapinad_

_Skapinad_
  • Guests

Posted 25 May 2013 - 02:04 PM

Yel327..... We think very much alike !


Holden and ford are a lost cause, lets try an convince toyota to put the v8 petrol from the cruiser in the hilux.... Hell throw in the v8 diesel for the rich mine workers.... I would have one in a second..

#62 yel327

yel327

    Oh My, Don't you post alot

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,119 posts
  • Joined: 10-February 08

Posted 25 May 2013 - 03:43 PM

The V8 'cruiser petrol engine won't fit, i've already investigated that. Same gearbox, but its too tall for the engine bay. However GenIII/IV will fit. Marks 4wd do an adapter bellhousing for the A750F auto, and all the bits to make it a bolt in. Only issue they haven't yet done for the Hilux is you have to keep the Toyota ECU and the Holden ECU, and the comms between them needs finalising. Toyota ECU is needed for the auto, dash etc.



#63 _Skapinad_

_Skapinad_
  • Guests

Posted 25 May 2013 - 03:51 PM

Bigger hilux to accomodate the engine would be awesome !


What do you reckon from go to woah conversion cost to gen iv?

#64 lx308

lx308

    Lotsa Posts!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,838 posts
  • Name:Tony
  • Location:Australind
  • Car:Nuffin. Goin touring.
  • Joined: 25-March 07

Posted 25 May 2013 - 03:51 PM

Yel327..... We think very much alike !
Holden and ford are a lost cause, lets try an convince toyota to put the v8 petrol from the cruiser in the hilux.... Hell throw in the v8 diesel for the rich mine workers.... I would have one in a second..


Every survey I get from Toyota I tell em to drop the V8 diesel in the Hilux.
Come to think of it, I haven't had a survey for a while...

I was talking to our local Ford dealer yesterday & he commented hat loosing the falcon won't bother him much as sells bugger all of them & that the territory will probably become another import.
It's the business's that supply he car manufactures that I feel sorry for. Their margins would've been squeezed to buggery to get the business & now that probably a 1/3 of that business has gone they'll fall over pretty quickly I reckon.

#65 yel327

yel327

    Oh My, Don't you post alot

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,119 posts
  • Joined: 10-February 08

Posted 25 May 2013 - 05:13 PM

Bigger hilux to accomodate the engine would be awesome !


What do you reckon from go to woah conversion cost to gen iv?


Its called a Tundra. Toyota don't think we want it.

Probably $20k for all bits inc a new crate motor, more suitable torque converter, full new exhaust in SS. This is for everyting. You could save heaps if you made some of it yourself. This kit has some dear stuff in it like waterpump and engine driven fan, factory look ducting to airbox etc. With you doing a.few things your own way, buying a low kM engine, steel exhaust etc you'll save close to half that. I'd have to add it all up again to get a total.

#66 _Bomber Watson_

_Bomber Watson_
  • Guests

Posted 25 May 2013 - 05:31 PM

It really shits me off when people throw the blame stick around and go bla bla bla who here has brought a new locally made car etc etc etc.

 

Holden does not make a car locally that suits me. Ford does (XR6-T ute), but im afraid i cant afford a brand new car and the second hand ones are stupidly expensive :(

 

At the end of the day, who the frOck puts IRS in a ute? Holden deserves to suffer for that one.

 

Cheers.



#67 yel327

yel327

    Oh My, Don't you post alot

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,119 posts
  • Joined: 10-February 08

Posted 25 May 2013 - 05:37 PM

^^Here here! Except replace XR6-T with a V8, but they stopped doing that didn't they?



#68 _Bomber Watson_

_Bomber Watson_
  • Guests

Posted 25 May 2013 - 05:52 PM

For you perhaps, i would prefer the turbo six, cheaper rego mostly.

 

I really really dislike the idea of paying $1100 or so a year for rego, the $850 or so a year for a six is annoying enough.

 

That said the ford modular V8 is a nice bit of kit and i prefer it over the LSX.

 

Cheers.



#69 RallyRed

RallyRed

    Oh My, Don't you post alot

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,856 posts
  • Name:Col
  • Location:NSW
  • Car:LC GTR etc
  • Joined: 02-October 11

Posted 25 May 2013 - 06:21 PM

...lots of good chatter here....but it doesn't really matter......say what you like , blame who you like.....but if Ford was selling heaps of Falcons and Territorys and making money...they wouldn't be closing up shop.

People are not buying their cars, be they no good, wrong style, wrong size or whatever. People are not buying them.

No one expects anyone to buy a car that doesn't suit them...however reality says that no sales = no future.

what does all this mean for the poor buggers at FPV?...hotted up hatches?

#70 Dr Terry

Dr Terry

    Technical + Numbers Guru + Moderator

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,279 posts
  • Location:Eastwood (Sydney) NSW
  • Joined: 13-November 05

Posted 25 May 2013 - 06:59 PM


what does all this mean for the poor buggers at FPV?...hotted up hatches?

FPV closed down & became part of the Ford factory late last year. 

 

It will probably close down when the factory closes down.

 

Dr Terry



#71 _Skapinad_

_Skapinad_
  • Guests

Posted 25 May 2013 - 07:11 PM

...say what you like , blame who you like.....but if Ford was selling heaps of Falcons and Territorys and making money...they wouldn't be closing up shop


Seems you missed an important large earlier point.

#72 RallyRed

RallyRed

    Oh My, Don't you post alot

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,856 posts
  • Name:Col
  • Location:NSW
  • Car:LC GTR etc
  • Joined: 02-October 11

Posted 25 May 2013 - 07:27 PM

Yeh Know that Dr T....but the front cover of the local mags will have the new HSV Vs ??...that's what I meant. 



#73 RallyRed

RallyRed

    Oh My, Don't you post alot

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,856 posts
  • Name:Col
  • Location:NSW
  • Car:LC GTR etc
  • Joined: 02-October 11

Posted 25 May 2013 - 07:34 PM

Help me out here Skap....after 78 posts...not sure which point...



#74 enderwigginau

enderwigginau

    Admin Wrangler

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,000,527 posts
  • Name:Grant
  • Location:Brisneyland
  • Car:76 LX Sedan, 4 seater
  • Joined: 04-February 07

Posted 25 May 2013 - 07:46 PM

And why? Because of Paul Keating's micro economic reforms! Lowering and or complete removal of import tariffs and all the level playing field BS.
This country is slowly becoming a society of service industries. Once we lose all our value added industries we may as well pull our pants down, bend over and let China and India etc etc the rest of the world......... us.

Former and current governments here have little to do with the stranglehold US unions have on the auto manufacturers.......they have no choice but to ensure certain rates of manufacture occur in mainland USA.......to do this they can only curtail foreign production and transfer that work to the US........and with lowering demands, it means that even more foreign production gets culled.......just to ensure the home operation can continue......
We continue to mine vast amounts of material and ship it overseas, then buy back finished products at massively inflated prices.......

V8 Supercars is following the NASCAR lead, so soon I will be seeing the Ford Fusion and Toyota Camry racing here......

#75 N/A-PWR

N/A-PWR

    CABIN ENGINE CONTROLS GALORE

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,597 posts
  • Name:Dave I
  • Location:Wooroloo, 65km's East of Perth
  • Car:'1969' LC RAT TORANA
  • Joined: 08-December 12

Posted 25 May 2013 - 07:53 PM

Silly Aussie Government 






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users